Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

So? Which alternate histories appeal to you?

  • Rome Never Falls

    Votes: 58 35.8%
  • Axis Wins WWII

    Votes: 55 34.0%
  • D-Day Fails

    Votes: 41 25.3%
  • No Fort Sumter, No Civil War

    Votes: 32 19.8%
  • No Waterloo

    Votes: 33 20.4%
  • Islamic Europe

    Votes: 43 26.5%
  • No Roman Empire

    Votes: 37 22.8%
  • Carthage wins Punic Wars

    Votes: 51 31.5%
  • Alexander the Great survives his bout with malaria

    Votes: 54 33.3%
  • Mesoamerican Empires survived/Americas not discovered

    Votes: 48 29.6%
  • Americans lose revolutionary war/revolutionary war averted

    Votes: 44 27.2%
  • Years of Rice and Salt (Do it again!)

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • Recolonization of Africa

    Votes: 20 12.3%
  • Advanced Native Americans

    Votes: 59 36.4%
  • Successful Zimmerman note

    Votes: 35 21.6%
  • Germany wins WWI

    Votes: 63 38.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162
Long ago, I've been working on a timeline (here NES2.2 would be set unless the general public votes against it) in which a bizarre cosmic event led to Mayans uniting (eventually and temporarily), Attila the Hun defeating Aetius at Catalunian Fields, Ephtalites conquering Persia and Korea being united - once more, temporarily. Anyway, Attila the Hun's victory caused chaos in Italy as the Emperor comitted suicide. Fearful of anarchy, the Pope and the remaining patricians crowned Attila as the Northern Roman Empire. Meanwhile, in Egypt, an Eastern Roman governor rebelled, and managed to form an empire of his own, Southern Roman Empire, better known as Alexandrine Empire. Eventually the Northern Roman Empire collapsed, as did the Eastern one, but the post-Roman Europe was quite different. It was much more Romanized, and the Church had considerably less influence. This Europe is more advanced, and its horizons are more open. Islam never appeared as Muhhamed converted to Judaist preachings of a Jewish rabbi in a Arabia, who created Itzhakism or Reformed Judaism (most differences being that it is a missionary faith and much more warlike). In the north, where in Scandinavia the Anglo-Saxons who were expelled from Britannia regroupped, another warlike religion is created - Tarunism. The followers of this religion raid the seas and the coastal cities, and engage in mass conquest - they were only stopped by Judaists and Christians allying and pushing them out of Khazaria so far.

In 1255, a Visigoth expedition discovered the New World, arriving to Caribbean Sea. Before them, in 1195, the Scotians discovered Newfoundland and Labrador. In 1210, Sinhalese Indians discovered Kangaruppa - a continent which in our world is called Australia. Somewhere around this time, Incan Serpent Ships encountered the Mayans. Age of Discovery is coming to its end, and Colonial Age is about to begin.

Some ethnical divergencies would include the Anglo-Saxonnians expelled to Scandinavia, the Franks a minority in the areas of Gaul, Italy and Iberia, and Slavs being a majority in the area of Germannia (in this history called Severoslavia).

In the Americas, the Scotts already established several colonies (the Visgoths colonized Bahamas). Farther south there is the Messipian Empire on the northern cost of Mexico Gulf. Scottish colonial expeditions have only recently encountered it. In Central America and parts of Mexico, the Third Mayan Empire was declared, but its provinces are largely independant from each other and the Empire is unlikely to hold together for long. And finally, we have the Incan Empire and the Vakuchi Federation (in Brazil). Incans already invented gunpowder independantly, and the same goes for iron and large ships. The Vakuchi managed to somehow repulse an Incan colonial expedition, but should the Inca decide to send a large army, the Vakuchi would go the way of dodo birds. Oh, and Incans have a tiny Polynesian vassal state.

In Europe, there are numerous nations and cultures. In the west, we have Scotia (plus Ireland, plus Iceland), Britannia (all that's left of it are England and Wales, but once it also had Caledonia and Armorica/Brittany), Burgundia (west of Rhine, north of Rhone - a rising power which recently abandoned feudalism), Visgothia (ever-absolutist and centralized, consits of Iberia and Acquitaine, its capital of Toulouse is also the Pope's residence after he left Rome), Lombardia (might as well have been named Roman Empire. It is very similar to the OTL Ostrogoth Kingdom in Italy, only its even more Roman). Territory of OTL Denmark, Germany and Poland (plus-minus) is Severoslavia, ruled by a dynasty originating from a North Roman general who fled there after the Roman Republic was reestablished - majority of local population come from the Slavic tribes of Rus, Czech and Sorb. Scandinavia is divided between the Tarunist nations of Anglia, Svenia, Lappia and Fennia. In would-be Hungary, the Poles settled and created Polia. In former Dalmatia and parts of Macedonnia plus Epirus, Croatia is the most advanced Slavic nation. Also there is Thrace, with capital in Constantinople - it is one of the Byzantine successor states. In Eastern Europe, the militant Tarunist Baltia has reached the Black Sea, and expanding eastwards. However, the Itzhakist Khazars are back to their feet now, having thwarted the latest Tarunist rebellion.

The Mediterranean Sea is filled with Berber pirates, and basically, it is ruled by the Cretan Empire (actually a merchant republic like OTL Venice). Crete's fleets never encountered a foe they could not crush and its trade in the seas is the most prospering so far, and Crete rules the lands and islands of Sardinia, Sicily, Crete, Cyprus, Rhodes and Greece.

In Africa, both Berberia and Alexandrine Empire are back on track. Berbers seized Orania from Alexandrines, who in meantime seized Judea's outlet to the Nile. Alexandrines also rule a vast Nile Empire, including Egypt, Sudan and the recently-acquired Eritrea and Ethiopia (after the defeat of the Ugul Empire due to civil war). Sinhalese Indians established the very first colonial empire outside of the Mediterranean, including Madagascar and the African coastline from the Cape of Good Hope (Cape of Kali in this timeline) to Tyraputrra on the Horn of Africa. Zulu Empire has recently been established by the South Bantu at Zimbabwe.

Middle East. It was nearly as violent as today, but a brief peace ensues now. In Anatolia, there are four more Byzantine sucessor states. The strongest right now is Trebzond, but before the Byzantine League War, Ephesus was the most powerful and even held the Constantinople for a short while. Judean Empire, despite having suffered a minor setback in Egypt, is now again reforming and building up its military. It is a Theocratic Monarchy, and its well-trained, well-disciplinned "Elaphim" are called the "Second Legionaries" by some. The Third Temple also stands as a manifest of their power. Persia, meanwhile, has lost its great power status after a civil war, and is humiliated as it had to convert to Itzhakism. A second civil war might be in the horizon. Persia also lost all of its colonies, and the access to the Mediterranean.

Farther to the southeast, Sinhalese India is the scientific capital of the world, homeland of gunpowder and algebra amongst the other things (rumors are that an Indian scientist has came up with a weird device which reveals tiny animals that live within water and blood, and perhaps other things as well). It is also a naval powerhouse and the only nation that fought back a Juang invasion so far. They also have a colonial empire - apart from Africa's coast, they also run Sumatra, Malacca and a small colony on the mystirious continent of Kangruppa (Australia). They encountered the Javanese Empire, including Java, Timor, and everything between them, and the tiny Maliam, formed by Malaccan and Siamese refugees.

The giant of the Juang Empire, now based in China, seems to have exhausted its potential. It failed to conquer Sinhalese India, and lost N'Dran and Japan. To add to that, Tzin Shu's peasant rebellion has only barely been put down, and armed bands still roam the southern China. Perhaps, however, all it needs is a change of leadership.

Anyway, here is the map. Any questions?
 
Hope I didn't get you too tired with these. Here are a few more PoDs, but no scenarios:
- What if, just like in the late (damn you, minion!) stminionnes, the Dravidians survived the Aryan onslaught?
- What if Troy survived?
- What if Egypt was never conquered by the Persians and by Alexander? Could it have, with its alchemistic traditions, invented gunpowder in the Classical Age (since all the ingridients WERE known in the Roman Empire - saltpeter, I believe, was used for food preservation)? And how would it affect the history of the world?
- What if Charlemagne married Irena, the Byzantine Empress (yeah, there was such a plan until she was overthrown)? Could their children inherit a rebuilt Roman Empire?
- What if Canut's kingdom (England-Denmark-Norway) survived?
- What if Rurik didn't create his own nation in Novgorod, but conquered it for Sweden instead?
- What if Vinland survived? (sorry. I am in a Viking mood tonight/today/towhatever)
- What if [insert some other PoD about Vikings] happened?
- What if Kublai Khan conquered Japan, and later on discovered America (the Great Plains KhanAte)?
- What if the Hussites (come on, they invented a medieval tank!) were succesful in getting independance AND keeping it? Would this start a reformation a century earlier (you bet!)?
- What if the Dutch Empire had survived (i.e. the Dutch keep New Amsterdam, North Brazil, South Africa, Ceylon, Formosa and perhaps a few lands in Australia?)?
- What if the French had won the Spanish Sucession War AND the Glorious Revolution in England was not undone (Franco-Spanish Empire and the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland and Netherlands)?
- What if Pavel I was not assasinated (i.e. Russo-French alliance invades India and the Tippu Sultan creates an Indian Empire, and so Napoleon keeps himself an empire, Russia expands into Austria and Prussia, UK coexists with this "Triple Alliance" in a cold war while USA too allies with France, leading to an eventual WWI in 19th century?)?
- What if Napoleon II survived and couped the French government?
- What if Alexander I had abolished serfdom and established a constitutional monarchy in Russia (he did plan to do that, but his moods often affected his decisions. Too often.)?
- What if the French won the Franco-Prussian War and Napoleon III would've, boldened by the success, started the new Napoleonic Wars (Napoleon mood now...)?
- What if the Alliance of Three Emperors survived (i.e. Russia, Germany and Austro-Hungary kick some arse and win WWI, because that the Central (or Eastern?) powers gain an ally such as Russia, while losing the pathetic Ottomans and the Italians who betrayed them anyway, and the Germans don't have to keep any forces on Russian border allowing them to overrun France)?
- What if the Day of the Triffids occurs, and the humanity has to rebuild after that (I confess. This is not alternate history, this is science fiction, but wouldn't rebuilding civilization be fun?)?
- What if no welfare states during the Great Depression and the western powers collapse into civil war?
- What if USSR agreed to Hitler's suggestion of an alliance and did not just sign a non-agression pact?
- What if Hitler invaded the Middle East via Turkey instead of attacking USSR (and USSR attacks him then?)?
- What if the Unionist Movement had appeared (gotta find that link. Its a cool AH really, in which Unionist Russia and Germany conquer the world)?
- What if I conquer the world for a change (for one thing, it will become a much worse place to live in...)?
- What if Amenhotep7 will post an offtopic smilie in regards to this and the previous scenario?
 
ALL THE IDEAS are good! You have a lot of time on your hands though....might as well update soon ;)
 
Well, that's funny, I was just thinking of what my next excuse should be...
 
das said:
Well, that's funny, I was just thinking of what my next excuse should be...

I have an idea, work on a nes in which Islam never rose, due to Mohammed failing to take Mecca from his base at Medina. That should be a good excuse.
 
Good ideas, all of them, but Dravidia did survive the Aryan onslaught in Minion's NES. ;)
 
Which is exactly what I am saying, North King.
 
Ah, now I see (must have missed that "just like in" part). Now that would be a good scenario. :)
 
- What if I conquer the world for a change (for one thing, it will become a much worse place to live in...)?
- What if Amenhotep7 will post an offtopic smilie in regards to this and the previous scenario?

:hammer:

There, can't get much more random than that.:p

I love all your ideas, das! Wonderful! I'll have alotta NESes to do.:crazyeye:
 
Hey das, if you don't mind, I might write some rules to go along with that map and timeline. EDIT: Failed to read whole thread, I meant the WWI alt. history one. EDIT 2: The one starting with the Kingdom of Louisiana on page 7 also sounds good, I'd like to draw a map for that, again, if you don't mind.

NOTE: This is not a guarantee that I will start this NES. Junior year is approaching, and I have heard mixed reports from people. Some say its easy some say its hard, so I really can't know whether I have time to mod an NES until school starts (Wednesday).
 
@das: can you post maps for the other two AH's?
 
Great ideas das! NES2 II sound cool!
 
@das: can you post maps for the other two AH's?

When I get enough time, why not?

Great ideas das! NES2 II sound cool!

Thanks. If NES2 1 ever dies, then it has (I believe) a worthy sucessor.
 
Here is the Western Civilization-less map.

Naervod, feel free to draw the Louisiana map. I would welcome any NES set in one of my histories.
 
North King said:
No Roman Empire--GREAT, I was actually going to do one myself. Ideas--Samnites beat Rome.
I take it you mean the 'Social War' of 90-82BCE?

For those who came in late: When Rome's Italian allies (socii), grew sick of Rome's arrogance & general poor treatment of them. Some Roman politicans advoctated Roman citizenship for Italians, most notably the plebian tribune M. Livius Drusus, who was assassinated before he could reach his goals.

The allies, lead by the Q. Poppaedius Silo of the Marsii and G. Papius Mutilus of the Samnites, among others declared an new nation of Italia and nominated a capital of Italica (Corfinium) and set about the destrcution of Roman supremacy. This could have gone either way, but Rome had superior generals (Marius, Sulla, et al) and more friends. The bulk of the war was over by 88, but the Samnites and Lucanians continued until about 82 under their own banners.

If this endeavour had succeeded, Italia may have become a regional power in time, but this would immediately have allowed supremacy of Mithradates VI of Pontus (now northern Turkey) with Tigranes of Armenia to continue their expansion. Inevitably this would mean conflicts with the Macedonian dynasties in Syria (Seleucids) & Alexandrine Egypt (Ptolemaeic) who might've been forced into uneasy alliances with the Parthians.

Pushing forward a couple of millenia, this would mean: no Christianity or Islam (or at least less likelihood Christian/Muslim supremacy), less likelihood of European Imperialism, an more Asiatic Europe, since there would be no large empires to resist the Huns, Mongols and any other wayward steppe nomads.

Quite simply a world we wouldn't recognise!
 
I've been thinking of a new one: what if the governor of Ortrar in Kwarzihm did not seize the Mongol trade caravans, and thus Genghis Khan was not insulted... So he did not turn West, but merely attempted to conquer northern China.

Thus, the Islamic world was not attacked by the Mongols, thus, many cities are spared, as is the irrigation systems of Persia and Mesopotamia, which means they do not turn into a desert; the great flowering cultural centers of Islam are not sacked and pillaged, and thus, Islam is a much greater threat to Christianity and the West does not rise so spectacularly (it is too busy fighting Islam).

The southern Song Chinese are not conquered as the Mongols are not nearly so overwhelming and expansionistic, and they become great seafarers, and discover California in the early 1300s and set up a colony there.

The NES itself would be set around 1500 CE, and there would be a Christian Europe (minus Spain and the Balkans), fighting the Islamic empires, who extend all the way to India, which becomes relatively united (only three or four major kingdoms) against the constant threat of Islam, China struggles to take the North away from the Yuan and expand their colony in California at the same time, Japan and Korea try to gain regional power, Indonesia and co. are under heavy influence from China, while Africa is mostly Islamic, and in the Americas, Native Tribes and Empires must struggle against disease, time, and new foriegn colonies from China, Islam, and Christianity.
 
Nice an idea, NK...

What if Ranjit Singh's state (Sikhs) survived? If it continued to have such good leadership, it could've succesfully modernized and defeated the British in India. That might be followed up by the general fall of the British Empire early on (early 19th century).
 
A couple of other ideas
- an evangelical/hyper-expansionist Israel (somewhere between 300BCE & 200CE)
- French annexation of south-western Australia (Napoleonic era)
- the ubiquitious precociously industrial Greco-Roman civilisation: perhaps Hellenised Egypt reasserting itself
- Asiatic (Chinese, Indian, other) or Arab discovery of Australia (a la TYoR+S)
- Buddhist Europe (incredibly improbable)?
- (industrial) African colonisation of Europe
- communist/socialist supremacy over 20th Century
Any advanced Australian Aboriginal and/or Maori civ' would be cool, too
 
Heh, I know how the Bhuddist Europe could work; if the Golden Horde conquered Europe, then many of them had already converted to Buddhism, and the people, having lost thier faith, convert.
 
The Golden Horde was not particularily Buddhist. Soon after it converted to Islam. If it conquered Europe, it might as well convert to Christianity - why not?

- What if Athinians did not recall Alcibiades from Sicily?
- What if the Scythians did not just sit around in Ukraine, but invaded Diadochi (post-Alexander) states in Greece and Middle East? Scythians could easily crush most of those states, creating either a Scythian Empire, either a new group of states with mixed culture.
- What if the Persians had defeated Byzantines in Middle East and were in a position strong enough to fight back Islam, thus confining it to Arabia, which will then use the resources otherwise used for northward Jihad to colonize Africa instead? Maritime Arabian empire?
 
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