Insane_Panda
Deity
Was there a Sino-Japanese war of 1895?
Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
das
Regeneration In Process
Yes. Why not?
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: Guess what's back?
IC:
1540-1600
Ambrosia:
Colonization here picked up slowly, but grew geometrically as more and more was discovered. For instance, the mere discovery of new land brought only a few people with nothing better to do and the occasional explorer. Discovery of some people there also brought in merchants, some of whom decided to settle down. Discovery of furs brought in, however, quite a flood of merchants and adventurers, and thus eventually the UK moved in, establishing a colony on St. John's Island (OTL Newfoundland), which was important both for the merchants, for whom it was a trade post, and the fishers.
An even more important change came when an UK expedition led by Arthur Bacon met a Spanish expedition led by Rodriguez Morales in the Carribean Sea in 1548. This was followed by the discovery of the warring Tarascan and Tlaxcallan empires in Mexico, and led to extensive United Royal and Spanish colonization of the Carribean. Trade intensified. Eventually, so did the concurention and conflict. A proxy war thus was fought between the UK-backed Tarascans and Spanish-backed Tlaxcallans. The backing involved shipment of weapons and "divine" advisors. Eventually, the Tlaxcallans succumbed, the UK gained a foothald on the Mexican coast, and the Tarascans expanded their rule into the rest of the Mexico Valley. In response to the UK strenghthening, the Spanish claimed the Mayan realm of Yucatan, where it faced near to no resistance, and eventually also much of the Isthmus (OTL Central America). A series of inconclusive naval wars ensued.
There were three other powers in Ambrosia, though. The Union of Kalmar lay claim to the eastern coast of the land, establishing five major forts in New Denmark (OTL New England). Also, it reinforced its claims on Greenland as foreign whalers begun to intrude on its waters. Burgundy established a colony in Virginia (OTL Quebec), and finally, the Hanseatic League - or rather, the Hohenzollerns - established the colony of Nieuw Bremen (at OTL Annapolis).
Generally, the expansion into Ambrosia assisted the European powers greatly, as they gained much wealth from the trade and a beneficient exchange took place, with Europe's markets gaining many new and strange goods.
Ofcourse, many diseases were exchanged as well... That went on to cripple many a native tribe, assist the fall of the Tlaxcallans and wreck some trouble in Europe, too.
Henrialia:
Here, the Spanish, in a way, had more luck then the UK did in Ambrosia. Indeed, Spain succesfully established its rule in the gold-rich lands of Nueva Leon (OTL Columbia, Venezuela and Guyannas, more-or-less) and also, despite some silly adventurists nearly ruining all that, succesfully allied with the plague-wrecked but still formidable - and WEALTHY - Incan Empire, Tawantinsuyo. The Incans were rather naive at first, having had not much diplomatic experience previously, but as Etehualpa rose to power in 1571 the Incans managed to much more succesfully argue out Spanish aid in modernization in exchange for trade. Much trade. And future help against the UK if needed.
However, even here the Spanish failed to establish a monopoly on influence. Albeit UK attempts to expand here were stopped abruptly by the Spanish naval victory at St. Paul Island (OTL Trinidad), the Burgundians they couldn't stop. Thus, a series of Burgundian colonies was set up in Philippia (OTL North Brazil), and later another major Burgundian colony will emerge further south, on the Or River (OTL Parana River).
Same with diseases.
Europe:
Europe was surprisingly stable borders-wise, despite quite some bloodshed. UK, Burgundy, Spain, Aragon, Milan, Papacy, Kalmar, Poland, Lithuania, Romea-Hungary - all these powers were deeply entrenched by the time of the Twenty Years War in 1563-1583. However, some powers were not. Hohenzollerns struggled to kepe their empire intact, whilst Venice came under attack from nearly all directions.
The causes of the war were many; mostly political. The Hohenzollerns continued their centralization efforts, but this time they have gone too far. A coalition of southern German states was forged by Maximillian III of Austria against the Holy Roman Emperor, Friedrich IV, and an ultimatum was sent - he was to retain the current status quo and avoid trying to increase his political power within HRE at the expense of his "vassals". Problem was, Friedrich IV found quite a nice ally, Pope Nicholas VI. Friedrich dismissed Maximillian's messanger with scorn and declared that "rebellious vassals will be punished". Maximillian thus declared war on the Holy Roman Emperor... and was instantly excommunicated, along with his allies. Problem is, times have changed, and excommunication wasn't as strong a weapon now as then. Thus it became a matter of religion as well - Maximillian and his allies officially changed their state religion to the Hussite Church. Some of their people rebelled, but most generally agreed... or were too intimidated by the army sent in to deal with any such unpleasantries to protest.
Soon, however, things spilled out into the outside. Poland and Czechia were only too happy to weaken their western neighbhor, and sent forces to help their newfound brethren-in-religion. Romea-Hungary, by contrast, sat it out... at first. Burgundy for its part did something strange - it backed Friedrich IV. Most thought that it wanted to find an ally against UK. UK, meanwhile, remained neutral, as did Spain. Venice, rather foolishly, sided with Friedrich... and was invaded by Milan, which - controversially - sided with Maximillian. Lithuania too was cautious here, but sided with Friedrich mostly to spite Poland. And to cripple its most persistant enemy thusly.
Politically, HRE was split between the pro-Hohenzollern north and pro-Hapsburg south; religious split went along those lines as well.
The war's early phase was 1563-1571. It was a time of sporadic fighting in the HRE, and of very heavy fighting in Austria specifically, as well as in Brandenburg where Polish forces invaded. Lithuanians fought Poles with not much success in the east, but this distracted Polish resources. Venetian army was crushed by Milan; its fleet, its pride, was destroyed by Romea-Hungarians and the Milanese; and soon enough, only the City and a few islands remained of the proud mercantile republican empire, as all other parts were grabbed quickly by its enemies. Venice itself was under siege. As was Rome, after the Pope tried to invade Milan. The siege of Rome went on; eventually, both Rome and Venice fell.
All-in-all, this was the time of pro-Maximillian coalition's victories. But in 1571, the Lithuanians crushed a large Polish army at Brest-Litovsk. Meanwhile, Rome rebelled, the Pope returned there from Zaragoza with Aragonese help. Milan was now at war with Aragon as well. And finally, UK invaded Burgundy... but bogged down at Ghent. Union of Kalmar officially stated its neutrality, as did Romea-Hungary after partitioning Venice - while secretly negotiating with both Friedrich and Maximillian. Thus, 1571-1577 was the time of great "Hohenzollernist" victories. The secret alliance with Romea-Hungary on the conditions of gains against Venice being recognized and "no more crusades" allowed an attack into Austria; Maximillian himself was captured by Hungarians but "somehow" wound up in Friedrich's hands. The Coalition crumbled, especially as Milan, Poland (though that also meant Lithuania out of the Hohenzollernist League) and Czechia withdrew from it.
By 1577, the Hapsburgs and their allies in HRE were naught but crushed. Venice, though a Hohenzollern ally, ceased to exist, partitioned between Romea-Hungary and Milan. UK withdrew from the war; so did Czechia and Poland.
But the Twenty Years War was not yet over. What was to come was the "Little War" or the "Peasant War", when the former prince of Wurtemburg, Erich, led a great Hussite peasant uprising in South Germany. Even without outside support, he managed to ward off Hohenzollern-Burgundian forces for many years, but eventually, devastating the countryside as they went, the Hohenzollerns prevailed with Erich's death in 1583 in the last battle of the war. Noone dared challenge them, as the Holy Roman Empire underwent the "Twenty Edicts" of 1584, which basically broke the power of feudals and centralized it along Polish and Hungarian lines. Milan, ofcourse, now officially was outside of the Holy Roman Empire.
Other then that, life went on. Polish-Lithuanian War resulted in some minor Polish border gains, mostly in Samogitia. Lithuania also underwent a series of Orthodox rebellions, but endured.
Europe prepared for the next century with fear and hope.
Africa:
Status quo maintained in North Africa, where Aragon and the Mamlukes fought many an indecisive war. Until, ofcourse, the Mamlukes collapsed in 1580, allowing for Aragon to grab Tunisia whilst Tripolitania, Cyreneica and Egypt all swore loyalty to a certain other ruler.
Many tiny kingdoms rose and fell in West Africa.
Adal sorta rose in the Ethiopian Highlands, but Abyssinian rebellions kept interferring. Still, these were getting weaker and weaker, especially as trade strenghthened with Oman.
Meanwhile, Omanians succesfully acquired control of a whole set of Muslim Swahili city-states in East Africa, building something of a colonial empire.
A set of Spanish trade posts rose during this time, though eventually a few Burgundian and United Royal ones too rose in West and South Africas. Slave trade was increasingly profitable for the natives.
Middle East:
The Turkish Sultanate had, miracilously, endured despite a Romean-Hungarian invasion attempt. Still, it was filled by strife, and hardly a power. Georgians expanded into Trebzond while in the north making border with the Lithuanians. The Georgians also expanded to the Caspian Sea in the east.
Meanwhile, the Baburids proved that their military reforms were bloody well worth it. As the Venetian plight weakened their good friends the Mamlukes, the Baburids struck forth - crushing the Mamlukes at An-Nabk in Syria. After that, it was a slaughter. Mamlukes lost battle after battle. Some of those were narrow defeats, but still they lost. The Baburid fleet destroyed theirs at Cyprus. It took 8 years, but it happeened - 1580, South Syria, Palestine, Hejjaz, Egypt, Cyreneica and Tripolitania lay in the hands of the victor - Timur II.
India:
The Vijayanagarans, despite the occasional shake-up, were still quite strong. They succesfully integrated much of their Muslim population with edicts of tolerance, they also finally crushed Bundela in 1548 and 1551. They ruled, by 1580, all lands from Ceylon (excludingly) to the Delta of Ganges (includingly), the northwestern border, with the Baburids and their tributaries, went along the Narmada River in its western half, then "jumped" north to Yamuna slightly to the south-east from Agra. European trade was intensifying, and the Vijayanagarans gave special trade rights in three western ports to Spain.
Ceylon was also growing quite rich from all that trade.
Far East:
China was still filled with strife, and by 1555 the Ling dynasty was quite literally dead. But the Oirat Mongol invasion of China, though at first succesful in taking Beijing, soon faced serious resistance as Sheng Ho started the Huang Dynasty, having formed a peasant army and captured the Mongol khan at Chengxian. The Mongols held on to the area north of Huang He for some time, but in 1584 the aging emperor personally led the army that retook Beijing. China was weakened by all this, but the energetic new dynasty was determined to make good on China's destiny. Trade with Europeans begun as well, and marked China's re-emergence from isolation, as sea-faring ships were again built.
All this turmoil prevented China from even trying to save Korea from Japan. Ofcourse, Japan here is rather interesting. Much like in OTL, Oda Nobunaga encouraged contact with the West, different from the OTL as the West might have been, and unified Japan as well. He died from natural causes in 1588; Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over from him. After a while he invaded Korea, and despite heavy resistance conquered it. The attempt to conquer China wasn't too succesful, by contrast, though Taiwan was captured. All this wasn't telling the whole story, ofcourse. Neither were the words "there was a large amount of conversion to Christianity in Japan during this short period, encouraged by Nobunaga and later by Hideyoshi; however, what came out was not a Catholic Japan, but a whole new "heretic" church that made the Hussites seem more Catholic then the (Catholic) Pope - for instance, the Emperor was considered Jesus' little brother. The Emperor didn't like the change, but what could he do, really?" [1]
Most other Christian missionary efforts, mostly in Indochina, failed, having come into competition with Islam and Buddhism. Trade in Southeast Asia was more succesful, however, even though colonial efforts until the 1562 Spanish conquest of Java did not. After that, Spain also exacted much influence on other nearby states, especially on Thailand where Spanish advisors cooperated greatly with the locals.
[1] Isn't as unrealistic as it sounds, it could have happened IMHO. Sorry, too pressed for time when writing the Far East bit to give more detail, I could try and explain some if you want.
IC:
1540-1600
Ambrosia:
Colonization here picked up slowly, but grew geometrically as more and more was discovered. For instance, the mere discovery of new land brought only a few people with nothing better to do and the occasional explorer. Discovery of some people there also brought in merchants, some of whom decided to settle down. Discovery of furs brought in, however, quite a flood of merchants and adventurers, and thus eventually the UK moved in, establishing a colony on St. John's Island (OTL Newfoundland), which was important both for the merchants, for whom it was a trade post, and the fishers.
An even more important change came when an UK expedition led by Arthur Bacon met a Spanish expedition led by Rodriguez Morales in the Carribean Sea in 1548. This was followed by the discovery of the warring Tarascan and Tlaxcallan empires in Mexico, and led to extensive United Royal and Spanish colonization of the Carribean. Trade intensified. Eventually, so did the concurention and conflict. A proxy war thus was fought between the UK-backed Tarascans and Spanish-backed Tlaxcallans. The backing involved shipment of weapons and "divine" advisors. Eventually, the Tlaxcallans succumbed, the UK gained a foothald on the Mexican coast, and the Tarascans expanded their rule into the rest of the Mexico Valley. In response to the UK strenghthening, the Spanish claimed the Mayan realm of Yucatan, where it faced near to no resistance, and eventually also much of the Isthmus (OTL Central America). A series of inconclusive naval wars ensued.
There were three other powers in Ambrosia, though. The Union of Kalmar lay claim to the eastern coast of the land, establishing five major forts in New Denmark (OTL New England). Also, it reinforced its claims on Greenland as foreign whalers begun to intrude on its waters. Burgundy established a colony in Virginia (OTL Quebec), and finally, the Hanseatic League - or rather, the Hohenzollerns - established the colony of Nieuw Bremen (at OTL Annapolis).
Generally, the expansion into Ambrosia assisted the European powers greatly, as they gained much wealth from the trade and a beneficient exchange took place, with Europe's markets gaining many new and strange goods.
Ofcourse, many diseases were exchanged as well... That went on to cripple many a native tribe, assist the fall of the Tlaxcallans and wreck some trouble in Europe, too.
Henrialia:
Here, the Spanish, in a way, had more luck then the UK did in Ambrosia. Indeed, Spain succesfully established its rule in the gold-rich lands of Nueva Leon (OTL Columbia, Venezuela and Guyannas, more-or-less) and also, despite some silly adventurists nearly ruining all that, succesfully allied with the plague-wrecked but still formidable - and WEALTHY - Incan Empire, Tawantinsuyo. The Incans were rather naive at first, having had not much diplomatic experience previously, but as Etehualpa rose to power in 1571 the Incans managed to much more succesfully argue out Spanish aid in modernization in exchange for trade. Much trade. And future help against the UK if needed.
However, even here the Spanish failed to establish a monopoly on influence. Albeit UK attempts to expand here were stopped abruptly by the Spanish naval victory at St. Paul Island (OTL Trinidad), the Burgundians they couldn't stop. Thus, a series of Burgundian colonies was set up in Philippia (OTL North Brazil), and later another major Burgundian colony will emerge further south, on the Or River (OTL Parana River).
Same with diseases.
Europe:
Europe was surprisingly stable borders-wise, despite quite some bloodshed. UK, Burgundy, Spain, Aragon, Milan, Papacy, Kalmar, Poland, Lithuania, Romea-Hungary - all these powers were deeply entrenched by the time of the Twenty Years War in 1563-1583. However, some powers were not. Hohenzollerns struggled to kepe their empire intact, whilst Venice came under attack from nearly all directions.
The causes of the war were many; mostly political. The Hohenzollerns continued their centralization efforts, but this time they have gone too far. A coalition of southern German states was forged by Maximillian III of Austria against the Holy Roman Emperor, Friedrich IV, and an ultimatum was sent - he was to retain the current status quo and avoid trying to increase his political power within HRE at the expense of his "vassals". Problem was, Friedrich IV found quite a nice ally, Pope Nicholas VI. Friedrich dismissed Maximillian's messanger with scorn and declared that "rebellious vassals will be punished". Maximillian thus declared war on the Holy Roman Emperor... and was instantly excommunicated, along with his allies. Problem is, times have changed, and excommunication wasn't as strong a weapon now as then. Thus it became a matter of religion as well - Maximillian and his allies officially changed their state religion to the Hussite Church. Some of their people rebelled, but most generally agreed... or were too intimidated by the army sent in to deal with any such unpleasantries to protest.
Soon, however, things spilled out into the outside. Poland and Czechia were only too happy to weaken their western neighbhor, and sent forces to help their newfound brethren-in-religion. Romea-Hungary, by contrast, sat it out... at first. Burgundy for its part did something strange - it backed Friedrich IV. Most thought that it wanted to find an ally against UK. UK, meanwhile, remained neutral, as did Spain. Venice, rather foolishly, sided with Friedrich... and was invaded by Milan, which - controversially - sided with Maximillian. Lithuania too was cautious here, but sided with Friedrich mostly to spite Poland. And to cripple its most persistant enemy thusly.
Politically, HRE was split between the pro-Hohenzollern north and pro-Hapsburg south; religious split went along those lines as well.
The war's early phase was 1563-1571. It was a time of sporadic fighting in the HRE, and of very heavy fighting in Austria specifically, as well as in Brandenburg where Polish forces invaded. Lithuanians fought Poles with not much success in the east, but this distracted Polish resources. Venetian army was crushed by Milan; its fleet, its pride, was destroyed by Romea-Hungarians and the Milanese; and soon enough, only the City and a few islands remained of the proud mercantile republican empire, as all other parts were grabbed quickly by its enemies. Venice itself was under siege. As was Rome, after the Pope tried to invade Milan. The siege of Rome went on; eventually, both Rome and Venice fell.
All-in-all, this was the time of pro-Maximillian coalition's victories. But in 1571, the Lithuanians crushed a large Polish army at Brest-Litovsk. Meanwhile, Rome rebelled, the Pope returned there from Zaragoza with Aragonese help. Milan was now at war with Aragon as well. And finally, UK invaded Burgundy... but bogged down at Ghent. Union of Kalmar officially stated its neutrality, as did Romea-Hungary after partitioning Venice - while secretly negotiating with both Friedrich and Maximillian. Thus, 1571-1577 was the time of great "Hohenzollernist" victories. The secret alliance with Romea-Hungary on the conditions of gains against Venice being recognized and "no more crusades" allowed an attack into Austria; Maximillian himself was captured by Hungarians but "somehow" wound up in Friedrich's hands. The Coalition crumbled, especially as Milan, Poland (though that also meant Lithuania out of the Hohenzollernist League) and Czechia withdrew from it.
By 1577, the Hapsburgs and their allies in HRE were naught but crushed. Venice, though a Hohenzollern ally, ceased to exist, partitioned between Romea-Hungary and Milan. UK withdrew from the war; so did Czechia and Poland.
But the Twenty Years War was not yet over. What was to come was the "Little War" or the "Peasant War", when the former prince of Wurtemburg, Erich, led a great Hussite peasant uprising in South Germany. Even without outside support, he managed to ward off Hohenzollern-Burgundian forces for many years, but eventually, devastating the countryside as they went, the Hohenzollerns prevailed with Erich's death in 1583 in the last battle of the war. Noone dared challenge them, as the Holy Roman Empire underwent the "Twenty Edicts" of 1584, which basically broke the power of feudals and centralized it along Polish and Hungarian lines. Milan, ofcourse, now officially was outside of the Holy Roman Empire.
Other then that, life went on. Polish-Lithuanian War resulted in some minor Polish border gains, mostly in Samogitia. Lithuania also underwent a series of Orthodox rebellions, but endured.
Europe prepared for the next century with fear and hope.
Africa:
Status quo maintained in North Africa, where Aragon and the Mamlukes fought many an indecisive war. Until, ofcourse, the Mamlukes collapsed in 1580, allowing for Aragon to grab Tunisia whilst Tripolitania, Cyreneica and Egypt all swore loyalty to a certain other ruler.
Many tiny kingdoms rose and fell in West Africa.
Adal sorta rose in the Ethiopian Highlands, but Abyssinian rebellions kept interferring. Still, these were getting weaker and weaker, especially as trade strenghthened with Oman.
Meanwhile, Omanians succesfully acquired control of a whole set of Muslim Swahili city-states in East Africa, building something of a colonial empire.
A set of Spanish trade posts rose during this time, though eventually a few Burgundian and United Royal ones too rose in West and South Africas. Slave trade was increasingly profitable for the natives.
Middle East:
The Turkish Sultanate had, miracilously, endured despite a Romean-Hungarian invasion attempt. Still, it was filled by strife, and hardly a power. Georgians expanded into Trebzond while in the north making border with the Lithuanians. The Georgians also expanded to the Caspian Sea in the east.
Meanwhile, the Baburids proved that their military reforms were bloody well worth it. As the Venetian plight weakened their good friends the Mamlukes, the Baburids struck forth - crushing the Mamlukes at An-Nabk in Syria. After that, it was a slaughter. Mamlukes lost battle after battle. Some of those were narrow defeats, but still they lost. The Baburid fleet destroyed theirs at Cyprus. It took 8 years, but it happeened - 1580, South Syria, Palestine, Hejjaz, Egypt, Cyreneica and Tripolitania lay in the hands of the victor - Timur II.
India:
The Vijayanagarans, despite the occasional shake-up, were still quite strong. They succesfully integrated much of their Muslim population with edicts of tolerance, they also finally crushed Bundela in 1548 and 1551. They ruled, by 1580, all lands from Ceylon (excludingly) to the Delta of Ganges (includingly), the northwestern border, with the Baburids and their tributaries, went along the Narmada River in its western half, then "jumped" north to Yamuna slightly to the south-east from Agra. European trade was intensifying, and the Vijayanagarans gave special trade rights in three western ports to Spain.
Ceylon was also growing quite rich from all that trade.
Far East:
China was still filled with strife, and by 1555 the Ling dynasty was quite literally dead. But the Oirat Mongol invasion of China, though at first succesful in taking Beijing, soon faced serious resistance as Sheng Ho started the Huang Dynasty, having formed a peasant army and captured the Mongol khan at Chengxian. The Mongols held on to the area north of Huang He for some time, but in 1584 the aging emperor personally led the army that retook Beijing. China was weakened by all this, but the energetic new dynasty was determined to make good on China's destiny. Trade with Europeans begun as well, and marked China's re-emergence from isolation, as sea-faring ships were again built.
All this turmoil prevented China from even trying to save Korea from Japan. Ofcourse, Japan here is rather interesting. Much like in OTL, Oda Nobunaga encouraged contact with the West, different from the OTL as the West might have been, and unified Japan as well. He died from natural causes in 1588; Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over from him. After a while he invaded Korea, and despite heavy resistance conquered it. The attempt to conquer China wasn't too succesful, by contrast, though Taiwan was captured. All this wasn't telling the whole story, ofcourse. Neither were the words "there was a large amount of conversion to Christianity in Japan during this short period, encouraged by Nobunaga and later by Hideyoshi; however, what came out was not a Catholic Japan, but a whole new "heretic" church that made the Hussites seem more Catholic then the (Catholic) Pope - for instance, the Emperor was considered Jesus' little brother. The Emperor didn't like the change, but what could he do, really?" [1]
Most other Christian missionary efforts, mostly in Indochina, failed, having come into competition with Islam and Buddhism. Trade in Southeast Asia was more succesful, however, even though colonial efforts until the 1562 Spanish conquest of Java did not. After that, Spain also exacted much influence on other nearby states, especially on Thailand where Spanish advisors cooperated greatly with the locals.
[1] Isn't as unrealistic as it sounds, it could have happened IMHO. Sorry, too pressed for time when writing the Far East bit to give more detail, I could try and explain some if you want.
das
Regeneration In Process
Precisely. But, really, Christianity COULD have entered Japan in a serious way, all we need is an enterprising Japanese Shintoist priest reforming it into an acceptable version, much like they did with Buddhism (Emperor "the messanger of God on earth" - silly, he was just the God and now he's demoted then. Nope, won't work. He descended from Amaterasu, which is probably a different incarnation of Virgin Mary or somesuch, and there we go). Its harder, but, then again, Christianity itself is heavily-reformed Judaism, mixed with Graeco-Roman stuff for publicity's sake.
das
Regeneration In Process
For the record - Milan is now renamed to Lombardy. Also - am working on the map.
das
Regeneration In Process
das
Regeneration In Process
Any comments?
das
Regeneration In Process
In the UK, its the capitals of the four different kingdoms of which it consists. Same king, four kingdoms.
In Romea-Hungary, well, actually I guess Constantinople would have been enough, but still, it is formally a personal union of "Romea" (i.e. Byzantine Empire - ruled by a Hungarian, ofcourse) and Hungary. Again - two "kingdoms" - one "king" (that is, one empire and one kingdom, and one person who is the king of the kingdom and the emperor of the empire).
In Romea-Hungary, well, actually I guess Constantinople would have been enough, but still, it is formally a personal union of "Romea" (i.e. Byzantine Empire - ruled by a Hungarian, ofcourse) and Hungary. Again - two "kingdoms" - one "king" (that is, one empire and one kingdom, and one person who is the king of the kingdom and the emperor of the empire).
das
Regeneration In Process
Iroquois - not yet formed as a confederation. Other tribes aren't neither. They should be mostly like OTL, I think. They will soon begin pulling themselves together, IMHO.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
I'm considering modding another NES now that the summer has begun in earnest, but I don't really see one that sparks my interest (the most recent das creation seems too far-fetched, IMO). I would really like to see someone write up a timeline and make a map for a world in which Mohammed either never existed or died shortly on the Hajj or shortly after reaching Medina. Islam is either much less influential or non-existant, leading to a continued conflict between Monophysites and the Christian establishment in the Middle-east, as well as a stronger Byzantine Empire and perhaps sustained Roman culture (as the lands the Byzantines controlled dwindled, they became more and more Greek and less and less Roman).
oh come now cui, youll never get that done....not soon anyway. Das has alot of unused ones, other than that last one.
Theres also 1860 NES template, map, stats really close to being done.
Maybe a 1700 NES...I dunno, but Ive got a real urge to play a historic NES.
Theres also 1860 NES template, map, stats really close to being done.
Maybe a 1700 NES...I dunno, but Ive got a real urge to play a historic NES.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
i'm doing a 1700 nes! just waiting for panda's map 
das
Regeneration In Process
I could work on it (the No Islam TL), but not yet. I do, however, doubt the Byzantine Empire will be very powerful - it was too unstable and exhausted by wars with Persia. Besides, Arabs are likely to attack anyway, they were bound to do it by then. Ofcourse, how well do they attack and what do they set up after it... is a different question. I'm thinking an independant "Syrian Malukate" (no, no, not the stNNES7 one, a Monophisite one), side by side with a collapsing nearby Persian Empire and a Coptic Egypt.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
While I don't mind NESes that happen between the Renaissance and World War I, I much prefer NESes that begin before about 1400. Even if no one wants to make a no-Islam timeline, I wouldn't want to mod a 1700 or 1860 NES.
EDIT - Didn't see das's post. Well, I can wait.
EDIT - Didn't see das's post. Well, I can wait.
das
Regeneration In Process
As I said - I could do it. But a more Roman and strogner Byzantine Empire was unlikely, it was too unstable, that's why the Arabs brought it down so easily.
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