North King
blech
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Alternate History Thread III
- Thread starter Luckymoose
- Start date
das
Regeneration In Process
That's relative. What is known for a fact is that there were always many minor sects that failed to rise to any degree of prominence, and a few that evolved to take the niche of "mainstream religion", presumably because of requiring comparatively little change to fit the given society's cultural needs.
North King
blech
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I would call it luck of the draw. There was nothing inherently more appealing to Romans about Christianity than Mithraism (yes, this is debatable, but still); they simply appealed to different subsets of the population, and one managed to gain more momentum. Both of them were constructed by people with roughly the same frame of mind (specifically, Romanized Middle Eastern thought).
das
Regeneration In Process
Christianity appealed to a more significant one, however (at least numerically). Mithraism was tied more closely to the Roman army, which itself was in a state of decline.
Not at all. One was crafted by semi-Hellenised Jewish thought, another was crafted by traditional Persian thought. And THEN both underwent Romanisation.
North King
blech
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das
Regeneration In Process
I wouldn't call it all the Hellenized; it was still primarily Jewish, and the Greek influences were quite limited (a comparison with 18th century Russia may be in order, considering the similar superficiality and incompleteness of the Westernisation; it only really influenced the upper classes, and even then only to a limited extent).
*blink*
There are some similarities naturally, and ofcourse one can claim that all human "thoughts" are very similar really, and would even be right... But the whole point of studying cultures and societies is making comparisons and realising the differences. And the differences between Persia and Rome were greater than even differences between Rome and Greece, which in turn were greater than the differences between Rome and the Etruscans - themselves greater than the differences between Rome and the Latin peoples. Can we agree on that much at least?
I really don't want to explain to you of all people that the Mediterranean and the eastern parts of the Middle East are indeed quite different geographically, and thus socially, and thus culturally. I hope also that we will agree that either geography, either society, either culture - or maybe even all three! - do indeed have some measure of influence on what you have reffered to as "thought" or "mindset", and that though the differences of mindsets might be considered infinitely small or infinitely great they still exist and are dictated by the differences in one or all of the aforementioned three elements.
The Strategos
Thanatos
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Part 1
Part 1.5
Part 2
At the start of what no one would ever call 439, the Eastern Empire had reached what many would later call its height. At this time, Emperor Leo was in the third year of his reign, having spent the first two years defending the Empire against raids from the north and putting down a few rebellions of the more ambitious generals who refused to acknowledge his election. Now, with borders secured, the Emperor looked forward to spending time in the capital.
Unfortunately for him, he was never to get that rest. To the north, from which came the seemingly never ending raids, a man was busy forging the divided tribes into a united army, tied together as closely as the sinews of the horses which he and his men rode into battle. He was not the first, of course, to attempt this. Nor was he even the first to succeed. But he was the first to completely harness the potential of the tribes, to steer them like a bit steers a horse. This success would ensure that the name Oktar would be remembered by generations.
Now, as Emperor Leo looked forward to his long awaited rest, the newly united tribes, rushed down, sweeping from the north like a bitter wind. Such was the size of their army that ancient historians claimed that one could detect their approach from miles away due to the earthquakes caused by their galloping steeds. One of the first tests for this army was at the important city-fort of Ratiaria[1] where they met the first real Roman army. However, as it turned out, the test was psychological more than actual as the Huns easily routed the four legions[2] that faced them there, taking and sacking the town.
Buoyed by what they interpreted as proof of their superiority, the Hunnic army moved southward, bypassing all of the various border forts that guarded the border, enticed by the Siren’s call of the wealthy cities further to the south. These cities had been the forbidden prize of countless would-be raiders and conquerors, the fabled cities of the east, flush with the accumulated wealth of centuries, their pristine streets free from the harsh treatment of looters for centuries. But there was a good reason these cities had managed to accumulate the wealth that attracted the lust of northern tribes. For these cities were jealously guarded like a rich, old merchant guards his beautiful young wife. Back at home, safely getting drunk with boyhood companions, it seemed an easy task, defeat the Roman army and gain wealth beyond anyone’s imagination. And now, with the defeat of the legions at Ratiaria, things were still looking easy. Perhaps all those stories of Roman strength were exaggerated, the products of weaker men attempting to excuse their own failures. Perhaps the cities of the south were just waiting for someone with strength to divest itself of the burden of wealth.
But while these thoughts, and others like them, flirted through the minds of many in the Hun’s army during those heady days after the fall of Ratiaria, they would soon be divested of them. For if they were made drunk by the strong drink of victory, they would soon be made sober by the harsh medicine of reality. For while it was true that they won a great victory over the Romans at Ratiaria, those men were merely the advance guard, like the first few stars which appear at dusk before the sun sets and they fill the sky. This fact the Huns quickly learned as reports from their outriders slowly began to trickle in to the main army delivering their grim news. The Romans were massing at Serdica.[3]
Emperor Leo, unfortunately for the Huns, was not a stupid man, and had been keeping an eye on the situation among the Hunnish tribes since his ascension. Thus, the invasion did not catch him completely off guard. Already at Serdica, he had amassed an army of fifteen legions with more marching in. Thus, while the army was still outnumbered by the Huns by a fair number, Oktar knew that he had to deal with the threat quickly as time lavished her favor on the Romans.
Thus, like a hunter launching his hawk at his prey, Oktar sent his army after the Romans, wishing for a decisive victory so that he might more quickly enjoy the spoils of war. Meanwhile, in the Roman camp, there was division among the generals about what to do. Some favored staying behind the safety of the fortifications at Serdica. Since the Hunnic army was not equipped for siege, if the Romans could hold off the initial attempts at storming the city, the Huns, they felt, would continue south, bypassing the city. Then, when the Huns marched northward again after their raid, they would be burdened by plunder and their army thinned by the effort in taking the southern cities, making them an easier foe to handle. This council, however, was rejected by Emperor Leo, who felt it a shameful thing for the Emperor to fearfully huddle in safety, leaving his subjects to the rapacious wraith of the invaders. Thus, when he heard that the Huns were moving towards Serdica, he departed with his army, rushing north to meet his fate on the battlefield.
At fate’s decree, these forces met on the provincial border of Thrace. It was here that Emperor Leo decided to make his stand, having a few days time to prepare the site to his liking before the Huns arrived. Thus, when the Huns arrived, they found the Romans prepared for them, the natural terrain enhanced by what fortifications as could be constructed. This did not daunt the Huns, however, as they were confident of victory, owing to the ease of their march up to this point.
Once each side had made sacrifices to their various gods and inspected various omens, the battle began with a Hunnic attack. Quickly the opposing strategies became apparent. Leo had specifically strengthened the wings in order to prevent the Huns from outflanking him. In addition to this, Leo had kept some reserves back, which he carefully fed into the battle, a little at a time, like a miser unwilling to part with his gold. In contrast, Oktar, unused to the Roman way of fighting, had sent all his men in at once, his only tactic being to immediately overwhelm the enemy with the weight of his numbers. Thus, the Huns made charge after charge, their lines hitting the Romans with the force of a crashing wave. Night, however, found the Romans still in possession of the field and the Huns made the trek northward again.
Unfortunately for the Romans, however, their victory came at a great price. Their Emperor, Leo, had died, killed during the battle as he had led the last of his reserves in a charge against the enemy lines. Afterwards, the assembled Caesars of the realm elected his son in his place, and the Empire went on, believing it had won peace through its blood.
However, peace proved to be as real as a desert mirage. In the year after the battle, Oktar had been busy, campaigning in the north against the rebellions that had sprung up after his defeat and consolidating his position at home. By then, he was ready to make another southern invasion.
This time, the outcome was much different. Oktar had learned his lessons from his defeat at the hands of Emperor Leo, while the new emperor, Emperor Leo II, had his father’s name, but little of his military skill. Thus, Oktar, refusing to attack the Roman’s prepared positions, outmaneuvered the Romans, catching them off guard and destroying them at the battle of Chersonesus. This battle was a disaster for the Romans, as they lost the standards of seven legions. In addition, after this battle, Emperor Leo disappeared, and he was assumed dead, though his body was never found. Exploiting this victory, Oktar moved eastward, towards Caesaropolis.[4] With their Emperor dead, their armies scattered, and seeking to avoid the sack of their cities, the assembled Caesars in Caesaropolis rushed to offer Oktar the title of Augustus, a title which he accepted.
At this, the entire empire breathed a sigh of relief. Oktar himself proved to be a generous conqueror. After ascending the throne, no city was sacked, and if the army committed atrocities, it was covered up by the powers in charge. Oktar assumed the regal name of Leo II, dating his reign to the death of the first Leo in battle, and producing documents in which Leo I named him his legal heir. Though obvious forgeries, the Caesars thought it wise to humor the second Leo the Second, dutifully paying all the back taxes he claimed they owed him since the “start” of his reign, and thinking themselves lucky to get off so easily.
Oktar, however, was not a man to enjoy peace for long, and so it was not long before he found a new conquest to attempt. At the court at this time happened to be Marius, formerly Augustus of the West, who had come east in an attempt to gain an army to reinstate his throne. Using Marius’ claim as his excuse, Oktar decided to teach the rebellious western Caesars to respect their oaths of loyalty. Thus, the hosts of the Huns again went on the move, this time augmented by the battered, yet still formidable legions of the east.
For one who cut his teeth on fighting the cream of the Romans, the west proved little challenge. Taking advantage of their disunity, Oktar marched quickly, defeating several Caesars in succession before they were able to combine their forces against him. This advance led him to the very gates of Rome, which capulated to him without a fight, leading to a ceremony where Oktar crowned Marius as Augustus of the West. The newly (re)made Augustus, however, did not get much of a chance to enjoy his new position, for once again, Oktar set out, dragging the unwilling Caesar along with him. His goal this time was Gaul, in order to ensure the loyalty of those Caesars.
Gaul, however, proved a more difficult opponent than Italy did, mostly because they were given time for the various Caesars to mend their differences and unite against the new outside threat. Thus, when Oktar marched northward, he met an army numerically equal to his own. However, whereas the numbers were similar, the quality was not, as both his battle-hardened Huns and the dependable eastern legions were both superior to the allied army, which were made up off the various Caesars’ household troops heavily augmented by peasant conscripts. Thus the battle, if one could even call it that, though it lasted for most of the day, was never in doubt, leaving Oktar once again victorious.
It is unknown how long Oktar would have continued conquering, nor how far it would have taken him. What is known is that he died in Iuliobona[5] of unknown causes, preparing for an invasion of Britannia in order to bring that province back into the fold of the Empire.
Predictably enough, with Oktar’s death descended a host of wars. Oktar left behind him three sons, all of which claimed their dead father’s throne. Added to this was Augustus Marius, who immediately moved to consolidate his position in the west, as well as the various Caesars who moved to regain their independence. In the east, the throne remained vacant, as the eastern Caesars continued to debate who would become emperor, probably hoping that if they delayed long enough, everyone would kill each other off, allowing the east to go back to the formula which had worked so well for it in the past. For the east, and indeed the whole world, however, there was no going back.
[1]Archar
[2]At this time in the east, each legion had a peacetime strength of 2000 men.
[3]Sofia
[4]Constantinople
[5]Lillebonne
Part 1.5
Part 2
The Eternal Wait: Part 3
440 CE-
440 CE-
At the start of what no one would ever call 439, the Eastern Empire had reached what many would later call its height. At this time, Emperor Leo was in the third year of his reign, having spent the first two years defending the Empire against raids from the north and putting down a few rebellions of the more ambitious generals who refused to acknowledge his election. Now, with borders secured, the Emperor looked forward to spending time in the capital.
Unfortunately for him, he was never to get that rest. To the north, from which came the seemingly never ending raids, a man was busy forging the divided tribes into a united army, tied together as closely as the sinews of the horses which he and his men rode into battle. He was not the first, of course, to attempt this. Nor was he even the first to succeed. But he was the first to completely harness the potential of the tribes, to steer them like a bit steers a horse. This success would ensure that the name Oktar would be remembered by generations.
Now, as Emperor Leo looked forward to his long awaited rest, the newly united tribes, rushed down, sweeping from the north like a bitter wind. Such was the size of their army that ancient historians claimed that one could detect their approach from miles away due to the earthquakes caused by their galloping steeds. One of the first tests for this army was at the important city-fort of Ratiaria[1] where they met the first real Roman army. However, as it turned out, the test was psychological more than actual as the Huns easily routed the four legions[2] that faced them there, taking and sacking the town.
Buoyed by what they interpreted as proof of their superiority, the Hunnic army moved southward, bypassing all of the various border forts that guarded the border, enticed by the Siren’s call of the wealthy cities further to the south. These cities had been the forbidden prize of countless would-be raiders and conquerors, the fabled cities of the east, flush with the accumulated wealth of centuries, their pristine streets free from the harsh treatment of looters for centuries. But there was a good reason these cities had managed to accumulate the wealth that attracted the lust of northern tribes. For these cities were jealously guarded like a rich, old merchant guards his beautiful young wife. Back at home, safely getting drunk with boyhood companions, it seemed an easy task, defeat the Roman army and gain wealth beyond anyone’s imagination. And now, with the defeat of the legions at Ratiaria, things were still looking easy. Perhaps all those stories of Roman strength were exaggerated, the products of weaker men attempting to excuse their own failures. Perhaps the cities of the south were just waiting for someone with strength to divest itself of the burden of wealth.
But while these thoughts, and others like them, flirted through the minds of many in the Hun’s army during those heady days after the fall of Ratiaria, they would soon be divested of them. For if they were made drunk by the strong drink of victory, they would soon be made sober by the harsh medicine of reality. For while it was true that they won a great victory over the Romans at Ratiaria, those men were merely the advance guard, like the first few stars which appear at dusk before the sun sets and they fill the sky. This fact the Huns quickly learned as reports from their outriders slowly began to trickle in to the main army delivering their grim news. The Romans were massing at Serdica.[3]
Emperor Leo, unfortunately for the Huns, was not a stupid man, and had been keeping an eye on the situation among the Hunnish tribes since his ascension. Thus, the invasion did not catch him completely off guard. Already at Serdica, he had amassed an army of fifteen legions with more marching in. Thus, while the army was still outnumbered by the Huns by a fair number, Oktar knew that he had to deal with the threat quickly as time lavished her favor on the Romans.
Thus, like a hunter launching his hawk at his prey, Oktar sent his army after the Romans, wishing for a decisive victory so that he might more quickly enjoy the spoils of war. Meanwhile, in the Roman camp, there was division among the generals about what to do. Some favored staying behind the safety of the fortifications at Serdica. Since the Hunnic army was not equipped for siege, if the Romans could hold off the initial attempts at storming the city, the Huns, they felt, would continue south, bypassing the city. Then, when the Huns marched northward again after their raid, they would be burdened by plunder and their army thinned by the effort in taking the southern cities, making them an easier foe to handle. This council, however, was rejected by Emperor Leo, who felt it a shameful thing for the Emperor to fearfully huddle in safety, leaving his subjects to the rapacious wraith of the invaders. Thus, when he heard that the Huns were moving towards Serdica, he departed with his army, rushing north to meet his fate on the battlefield.
At fate’s decree, these forces met on the provincial border of Thrace. It was here that Emperor Leo decided to make his stand, having a few days time to prepare the site to his liking before the Huns arrived. Thus, when the Huns arrived, they found the Romans prepared for them, the natural terrain enhanced by what fortifications as could be constructed. This did not daunt the Huns, however, as they were confident of victory, owing to the ease of their march up to this point.
Once each side had made sacrifices to their various gods and inspected various omens, the battle began with a Hunnic attack. Quickly the opposing strategies became apparent. Leo had specifically strengthened the wings in order to prevent the Huns from outflanking him. In addition to this, Leo had kept some reserves back, which he carefully fed into the battle, a little at a time, like a miser unwilling to part with his gold. In contrast, Oktar, unused to the Roman way of fighting, had sent all his men in at once, his only tactic being to immediately overwhelm the enemy with the weight of his numbers. Thus, the Huns made charge after charge, their lines hitting the Romans with the force of a crashing wave. Night, however, found the Romans still in possession of the field and the Huns made the trek northward again.
Unfortunately for the Romans, however, their victory came at a great price. Their Emperor, Leo, had died, killed during the battle as he had led the last of his reserves in a charge against the enemy lines. Afterwards, the assembled Caesars of the realm elected his son in his place, and the Empire went on, believing it had won peace through its blood.
However, peace proved to be as real as a desert mirage. In the year after the battle, Oktar had been busy, campaigning in the north against the rebellions that had sprung up after his defeat and consolidating his position at home. By then, he was ready to make another southern invasion.
This time, the outcome was much different. Oktar had learned his lessons from his defeat at the hands of Emperor Leo, while the new emperor, Emperor Leo II, had his father’s name, but little of his military skill. Thus, Oktar, refusing to attack the Roman’s prepared positions, outmaneuvered the Romans, catching them off guard and destroying them at the battle of Chersonesus. This battle was a disaster for the Romans, as they lost the standards of seven legions. In addition, after this battle, Emperor Leo disappeared, and he was assumed dead, though his body was never found. Exploiting this victory, Oktar moved eastward, towards Caesaropolis.[4] With their Emperor dead, their armies scattered, and seeking to avoid the sack of their cities, the assembled Caesars in Caesaropolis rushed to offer Oktar the title of Augustus, a title which he accepted.
At this, the entire empire breathed a sigh of relief. Oktar himself proved to be a generous conqueror. After ascending the throne, no city was sacked, and if the army committed atrocities, it was covered up by the powers in charge. Oktar assumed the regal name of Leo II, dating his reign to the death of the first Leo in battle, and producing documents in which Leo I named him his legal heir. Though obvious forgeries, the Caesars thought it wise to humor the second Leo the Second, dutifully paying all the back taxes he claimed they owed him since the “start” of his reign, and thinking themselves lucky to get off so easily.
Oktar, however, was not a man to enjoy peace for long, and so it was not long before he found a new conquest to attempt. At the court at this time happened to be Marius, formerly Augustus of the West, who had come east in an attempt to gain an army to reinstate his throne. Using Marius’ claim as his excuse, Oktar decided to teach the rebellious western Caesars to respect their oaths of loyalty. Thus, the hosts of the Huns again went on the move, this time augmented by the battered, yet still formidable legions of the east.
For one who cut his teeth on fighting the cream of the Romans, the west proved little challenge. Taking advantage of their disunity, Oktar marched quickly, defeating several Caesars in succession before they were able to combine their forces against him. This advance led him to the very gates of Rome, which capulated to him without a fight, leading to a ceremony where Oktar crowned Marius as Augustus of the West. The newly (re)made Augustus, however, did not get much of a chance to enjoy his new position, for once again, Oktar set out, dragging the unwilling Caesar along with him. His goal this time was Gaul, in order to ensure the loyalty of those Caesars.
Gaul, however, proved a more difficult opponent than Italy did, mostly because they were given time for the various Caesars to mend their differences and unite against the new outside threat. Thus, when Oktar marched northward, he met an army numerically equal to his own. However, whereas the numbers were similar, the quality was not, as both his battle-hardened Huns and the dependable eastern legions were both superior to the allied army, which were made up off the various Caesars’ household troops heavily augmented by peasant conscripts. Thus the battle, if one could even call it that, though it lasted for most of the day, was never in doubt, leaving Oktar once again victorious.
It is unknown how long Oktar would have continued conquering, nor how far it would have taken him. What is known is that he died in Iuliobona[5] of unknown causes, preparing for an invasion of Britannia in order to bring that province back into the fold of the Empire.
Predictably enough, with Oktar’s death descended a host of wars. Oktar left behind him three sons, all of which claimed their dead father’s throne. Added to this was Augustus Marius, who immediately moved to consolidate his position in the west, as well as the various Caesars who moved to regain their independence. In the east, the throne remained vacant, as the eastern Caesars continued to debate who would become emperor, probably hoping that if they delayed long enough, everyone would kill each other off, allowing the east to go back to the formula which had worked so well for it in the past. For the east, and indeed the whole world, however, there was no going back.
[1]Archar
[2]At this time in the east, each legion had a peacetime strength of 2000 men.
[3]Sofia
[4]Constantinople
[5]Lillebonne
North King
blech
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They spoke Greek. Hence why Jesus sold so well.
Well of course it's different; I didn't say identical. However, Middle Eastern thought is actually relatively quite similar to Western thought as compared with, say, Indian, or Chinese thought. The Middle East had much the same conception of the world as the Romans did, while the Indians and Chinese were rather dissimilar.
silver 2039
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Odd would the Romans really accept a barbarian on their throne like that?
The Strategos
Thanatos
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das
Regeneration In Process
Well, the educated ones did, ofcourse. Not sure if Jesus spoke Greek, but I doubt that it was his first language. Still, point taken.
Well, Persian and Indian cultures - especially ancient ones - appear to be quite similar. I think the Persians were about as similar to the Graeco-Romans as they were to Indians, though its been a while since I last read up on them.
Anyway, we were arguing about Christianity and Mithraism; the conclusion from all this would be that Christianity did as a matter of fact have some minor advantages that proved significant (wider appeal and slightly greater measure of cultural similarity). Though luck was definitely a factor as well.
Yes, you're probably better off not mentioning dates at all if you will stretch them out like that from now on.
Of these, Serdica seems to be indeed Sofia, whereas Ratiaria is a different Bulgarian town (Archar). Was that the footnote that you initially wanted to make for Ratiaria?
Aside from that, well written as usual, and quite an epic read. Oktar's reign in the East is a bit awkward; the Caesars had accepted it a bit too quickly and easily, and I'd imagine that the Huns too were disappointed if they didn't get to loot any city at all (whereas that was their initial motivation for the invasions). Oktar seems to be much more eccentric than Attila, in general.
You know, I suspect that the eastern legions if not the Caesars will take action against them pretty fast.
So, what now? Fragmentation?
EDIT:
But that's a bit different, isn't it? Maximinus was, after all, a Roman soldier, and born in a Roman province. The Huns were complete newcomers, however.
silver 2039
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So...next comes fragmentation? Hm...I think that would be a good time period to start perhaps?
Cuivienen
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During, not before, Constantius II's reign. In any case, there were numerous Roman officials (palace officials, Senators, minor generals, other men of reasonable power) who defected to Constantius's brothers and later to his enemies because Constantius was busy persecuting Nicaean Christians like themselves.
Pfft. Nero would have found some other obscure cult group to blame. The Christians were hardly unique in the period; there were even groups that actually did sacrifice children (like the survivors of the Phoenician/Carthaginian religion).
The effects of the Jewish war would not have been particularly far-reaching; while the Jews might have been better at organization, ultimately they couldn't have held out for more than few years longer against the Romans anyway.
Your argument is very compelling.
The Strategos
Thanatos
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Aramaic was (most likely) his first language and the primary language of the common people of Palestine. If he received any education, he probably also learned Hebrew (to read the Bible), Greek, and maybe Latin.
Yes, you're probably better off not mentioning dates at all if you will stretch them out like that from now on.
Yes, if you noticed, I went from covering almost 400 years in the first post to 100 in the second to one lifetime in the third.
Yes, thanks for pointing this out, it is now fixed.
Huns were compensated by the "back taxes" that the Caesars paid Oktar that they failed to pay him during the reign of the "psuedo" Leo II, as well as more personal gifts given as a show of "support" and adoration to the new Augustus. As for Caesars submitting to easily, well, they had no emperor, the armies were destroyed or scattered in the Balkans, and their precious cities were in danger of being sacked and their positions in jepordy. Naturally, they would pay off Oktar with title and tribute, send him off to some border (Persia would have worked just as well as the west) and hope that he gets killed.
Lots of chaos and pie.
He was still a "barbarian" (neither of his parents were Roman citizens) and a peasant to boot. But point taken, even though the Eastern Augustus at this point was closer to OTL western Magister Militum than Emperor, which might make it more likely (or perhaps not).
The Strategos
Thanatos
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I mentioned both Silvanus "coup" and Julian's revolt, both of which happened during Constantius' reign, both of which started not because of religion. Added to that that these two were the main revolts that occured during his reign, and well, who are these mysterious Nicene rebels?
I don't think members of a Carthaginian religion which had been dead for a couple hundred years and would, even if it was still around, be in North Africa, not Rome, would make a compelling scapegoat. Before you can blame it on another cult they would have to be 1) already hated, 2) in Rome. That narrows it down to Christians (who don't exist) and Jews (which could start an earlier Jewish war, changing history of Rome with Vespasian and Titus)
I was arguing for the opposite effect, that it would end sooner.
It's an argument from pure statistics, take all the martyrs and keep them alive, keep all those who gave away their riches to the poor rich, keep those who were disinherited from their families or disinherited themselves, kill off all those who were saved by Christian charity, all these little changes are bound to eventually effect one "big" change, and once that one big change occurs, things can quickly diverge.
das
Regeneration In Process
Aye, so it would seem. The best NES setting is the one that allows NESers the most freedom, and the immediate aftermath of an intense conflict (such as the Oktarian Campaigns) is usaully a great time to begin a NES in.
Then again, Strategos might want to follow this further, for greater changes (perhaps some in the east as well; Persia was no doubt affected at least to a limited degree). Plus I think he had some plans for the Arabs as well.
Weren't there some obscure fringe heretical Christian cults that did? Or at least did something similarily unconventional.
But what about the other Huns? Or did Oktar simply pay them some salaries?
The problem with that argument is that many of those martyrs could have been martyred for a different cause, and so on. Still, its far from predetermined, and the butterfly effect would probably have been prominent enough, at least regionally (and ofcourse in combination with the other changes that you had mentioned).
The Strategos
Thanatos
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I'm stopping here, unless specifically asked to continue to another date or if someone would want a mini-update to settle the wars between Oktar's sons and all the minor conflicts regarding Marius, Caesars, et al.
Well, the taxes themselves would bring in an enormous amount, some of which would trickle down to the common troops. Secondly, with most of the eastern legions destroyed, Oktar could make his Huns official troops and give them a salary (or even land grants). Though, perhaps there still was restlesness among the Huns and that is why Oktar had to embark upon the western campaign, in order to placicate them with more promised loot.
The Romans didn't just go around martyring people for fun, they usually had a reason. So in order to still get killed they would have had to do something criminal.
Cuivienen
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I'm afraid my knowledge of very early Christianity is limited, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Christian sects, in north Africa in particular that, under the influence of still-prevalent Carthaginian culture, sacrificed firstborn children. (Sacrifice of the firstborn was, if not common, extant in north Africa until around 130 CE, when Hadrian tried to stamp out the practice.)
Israelite9191
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The vast majority of Judeans did not speak Greek, they spoke only Aramaic or Aramaic and Hebrew. Only the upper class among the political leadership, a tiny amount of the religious leadership, and some of the merchant leadership would have spoken Greek. Oh, and the main reason Jesus sold so well was that he didn't speek Greek, he was one of the common men. Later, Christianity became popular among the Gentiles because of Paul, who came from an extraordinarily wealthy Jewish family from Anatolia, who had attended a Gymnasium where he learned Greek language, culture, philosophy, and theology. He addapted this to the basically Jewish religion of Christianity, and thus European society was born.They spoke Greek. Hence why Jesus sold so well.
Only some of the educated. Except for those among the nobility, Jews did not go to the Gymnasiums and only to Yeshivas, were they learned Halakha (Jewish Law) and Hebrew, but not Greek. And the educated, in general, only consisted of a miniscule portion of the populace. Jesus, the poor son of a carpenter, most definately DID NOT speak Greek, only Aramaic and Hebrew. And, as my statements point out, the point should not be taken.
Aramaic was definately the first language of the common people, with the execption of a few people who learned Hebrew or a related Semitic language first. If he had any learning at all, it would have been from the Yeshiva, which means he would have learned Hebrew, but never, ever would he have recieved a Gymnasium education learning Greek and/or Latin.
Israelite9191
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Correct, although Judea was even less penetrated. The native leadership, even when serving as pupets to the Romans, never adopted Greek habits, they may have learned the Greek language, but that was in general the furthest extent of their hellenization. Likewise, neither did the religious leadership. The only people that really adapte any form of Greek culture were the upper classes of the merchants.
