Alternate History Thread III
- Thread starter Luckymoose
- Start date
Isle of Hercules 
Do you want me to have another go at Italy.
I think the main problem is that i'm not sure how much sediment will fill up from the mountains etc to create a plain on the Italic penisual.
Alternativly i could close off the gap, turn it into a lakes region.
Do you want me to have another go at Italy.
I think the main problem is that i'm not sure how much sediment will fill up from the mountains etc to create a plain on the Italic penisual.
Alternativly i could close off the gap, turn it into a lakes region.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Shouldn't there be some effect on the Anatolia Area, those Straits that Constatinople is on, and the black sea?Kal'thzar said:mhmm Not sure how far I should have gone with that, I'm actually unsure wether the Red sea would allow much waves in, it being lowly effected by tides in the first place (see south bit were it closes in a bit).
Still the maps fun
no leg, but a hand emerges.
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altgeomapsb8.png
jeps
Arcadefire
Shouldn't there be some effect on the Anatolia Area, those Straits that Constatinople is on, and the black sea?
Yes there should. Also, it might go in and affect some of the rivers, flooding them.
Another alt-geo map that might make an interesting NES is if sea level raised x many feet. Bye Bye Bangladesh!
Yes there should. Also, it might go in and affect some of the rivers, flooding them.
Another alt-geo map that might make an interesting NES is if sea level raised x many feet. Bye Bye Bangladesh!
One thing that interests me about the Med Ocean idea is the amount of conectivity it would bring to humanity, early on. With a natural suez straight, human travel out of Africa would be delayed, thus increasing population consentration. In the years to come, the Red Sea would be an important focus of trade, and Egypt, in my opinion, would take the place of Rome OTL. India would be less distant a land, to the nations of the Med, because of trade connections, and the two regions might have a substantial influence on each other, even in ancient times.
More musings-
If Egypt really did become something great, and become Roman Empire-sized, under the alternate geography conections, it might well have territories stretching from India to Cyrene.
If humanity's exit from Africa was delayed, some of the other forms of the Homo genus might not have been wiped out by them, and might have had the time to become truely civilized, in their own right. That idea, I think, is quite interesting.
None of these ideas, however, are especially fleshed out or thought though.
More musings-
If Egypt really did become something great, and become Roman Empire-sized, under the alternate geography conections, it might well have territories stretching from India to Cyrene.
If humanity's exit from Africa was delayed, some of the other forms of the Homo genus might not have been wiped out by them, and might have had the time to become truely civilized, in their own right. That idea, I think, is quite interesting.
None of these ideas, however, are especially fleshed out or thought though.
Perfectionist
Angel of Verdun
Would the human exit from Africa be delayed? I have always understood that the first modern humans left Africa in the south of the Red Sea.
das
Regeneration In Process
won't exist as such. IMHO nice places for empires would be on the Horn of Africa, in Oman and near the Suez Strait itself; indeed the Red Sea coast, as I had already suggested, will have lots of city-states; one of these might eventually unite the others, and build a great colonial empire (but not very Roman; this empire will be more trade-oriented and maritime; rather like a mix of Netherlands and Srivijaya).
Now, what DO we have for the Eastern Mediterranean? More stormy and insular? I suppose civilization there would develop later and differently, and its niche will be filled up by the Red Sea. What is interesting here is the Western Mediterranean - without Phoenician and Greek colonial empires, what will develop there? Italy does seem like a nice place for an indiginous civilization in this world, or even for several - it will replace Greece, and colonize the rest of the Western Mediterranean, though ofcourse separate civilizations will emerge there over time.
Symphony D.
Deity
Something random I just sort of thought up recently: Nixon does not suffer a knee-injury in September 1960. Butterfly effect, he wears a black suit, is not all sweaty and tired, and agrees to wear TV make up during the first televised Presidential debate. This combined with his superior oration and continued performance over the next few debates leads many viewers to side with him over Kennedy, and he wins the 1960 US Presidential Election, having exploited a powerful new medium of campaigning.
Symphony D.
Deity
Not really. Five words: Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam. Simply altering those around even a little produces radically different modern outlooks in at least the United States. Potential results vary from nuclear war to an even stronger United States in the 1970s and 1980s (no financial and morale drain from 'Nam, no widespread suspicion of the populous towards government due to the absence of the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations and Watergate). The difference it would make in the United States' global outlook is enough to have some serious reprocussions, particularly if it's extrapolated forward into the future by say, 15 - 20 years.
I tend to believe modern PoDs can produce equally interesting (if more initially familiar) results as older ones, simply because the pace of global life has greatly accelerated in the past century; a difference of even 50 years now is enough to totally upend the world order on a scale that previously took centuries.
I tend to believe modern PoDs can produce equally interesting (if more initially familiar) results as older ones, simply because the pace of global life has greatly accelerated in the past century; a difference of even 50 years now is enough to totally upend the world order on a scale that previously took centuries.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
das said:
When I said the red sea coast would be more fertile, I meant compared to its currently near-zero baseline, the city states would certainly not be very large, and possibly dominated by whoever ends up controling the main nile valley and the population power available there...
I also think your rather overestimating the effect of the erosion, the most effected (IMHO) would be currents and weather not tides. especially if we let people get out of africa while the sahara is still wet - something very, very important to global human development continuing along a roughly similar path gives us a max age for the straits of 20k years. Once opened they would rather rapidly widen in much the same manner as the straits of gibralter or the english channel, but without enough time to really effect med coastlines to the effect Kal shows...
Symphony D.
Deity
Concur with Dis... that is not a big enough change to produce that severe of results. Honestly, Suez being open wouldn't achieve too terribly much in geologic terms. It would likely be closed at the same time Gibraltar was (the Red Sea, Dead Sea, Great Rift Valley, are all a single rift) due to the same tectonic action; no net terrain change. Even when it's open... the Mediterranean poses a vast resevoir for water to circulate around in, and the approach of the Red Sea itself minimizes climatological disruption. The changes would not be so dramatic as say, the historic uplifting of Panama.
Nothing much would really be changed, honestly, except some weather patterns. The Mediterranean would probably have marginally greater heat loss (or maybe more heat gain, depending) and somewhat less salinity. And really, the Red Sea isn't an impediment to human movement to begin with. It's mostly shallow, calm, and narrow. People conquered much greater long before the rise of civilization. Not a huge difference other than what rain falls where and how easy it is to get around.
Nothing much would really be changed, honestly, except some weather patterns. The Mediterranean would probably have marginally greater heat loss (or maybe more heat gain, depending) and somewhat less salinity. And really, the Red Sea isn't an impediment to human movement to begin with. It's mostly shallow, calm, and narrow. People conquered much greater long before the rise of civilization. Not a huge difference other than what rain falls where and how easy it is to get around.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
If we couple this higher sealine with humanity reaching a civilized state about 50-100k years earlier, the first city states can expand into a very fertile Sahara. The question is, what would such a Sahara look like?
I'd assume that with the Atlas mountains gone/lower, (I can't actually see the map, sorry,) things would be more conducive to a fertile plain.
I'd assume that with the Atlas mountains gone/lower, (I can't actually see the map, sorry,) things would be more conducive to a fertile plain.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Thlayli said:
Like a gigantic Sahal with multiple 'Nile-like' rivers travelling north-south. 'Very fertile', due to soil conditions and the sparodic rainfall, would be something of an overstatement. It was fine and dandy for hunter gathers, but not that suited to sedentary states.
Symphony D.
Deity
Yeah. Imagine the savannah of Kenya only several factors larger, and that'd be the "wet" Sahara.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
ThomAnder said:
Not just that but higher sea levels would mean a warmer Europe which either means, a different Neanderthal or an earlier extinction which IMO would change the European Human, without the connectivity and possible(possible) interbreeding between the two species. I believe Neanderthals mixed with humans to some extent. So I have no idea what the European Humans would look like. Just a thought, though I may be incorrect.
das
Regeneration In Process
Lets make a slightly different PoD - there is more water there overall, enough to ensure the "Strait of Suez" AND some arbitary changes. 
