Alternative Map for DOC

[Steb]

No, I have never touched that part of the map [Tasmania], suggestions welcome.

I don't know much about the region, but it seems Tasmania should at least be expanded by 1 tile west to make it equivalent to the current map.

Obsidian exists in Mesoamerica, Ethiopia, New Guinea and New Zealand. The intent is to make this another prerequisite for the earliest tier of military units (i.e. Spearman and Swordsman) but not later units like Heavy Swordsman and Crossbowman. This way deliberately metal deprived civilisations can still have a greater unit variety. Not sure what to do with the Inca in that regard. I know that other obsidian deposits exist but I'd like to limit its placement for this particular purpose. If there is another source that saw significant historical use let me know.

There goes my UP idea for Teotihuacan...

The Inca get copper, so it's not much of a problem, is it? But Wikipedia says that "in Chile obsidian tools from Chaitén Volcano have been found as far away as in Chan-Chan 400 km (250 mi) north of the volcano and also in sites 400 km south of it" (note: not the same Chan-Chan) so there could be some obsidian in Chile.

I like the Rare Earth, it's very unexpected. What tech will reveal it?

 

[Temujin8k]

You mean Hangzhou is the plot with the Jade?

Yes, exactly. At least that's how I see it. (I may be wrong though so there's that...)

 

[soul-breathing]

Yes, exactly. At least that's how I see it. (I may be wrong though so there's that...)

In fact, in this map Shanghai, Nanjing and Hangzhou make up a triangle. Nanjing is 2W to Shanghai, and Hangzhou is 1S1W to Shanghai, 1S1E to Nanjing.

So if you settle Nanjing or Shanghai, then you can't settle Hangzhou.

By the way, I suggest that it would be more exact to add a tea or silk on Hangzhou tile, but not Jade.

 

[soul-breathing]

Leo, do you plan to make a new branch in github, to develop this new map online? It may be more convienient for us to suggest. For now, I can't add these new resourses on recent version of DoC.

 

[Lokki242]

I think you could oup a rare earth in Quebec, the province is a leading exporter or various rare minerals

 

[TJDowling]

In fact, in this map Shanghai, Nanjing and Hangzhou make up a triangle. Nanjing is 2W to Shanghai, and Hangzhou is 1S1W to Shanghai, 1S1E to Nanjing.

So if you settle Nanjing or Shanghai, then you can't settle Hangzhou.

By the way, I suggest that it would be more exact to add a tea or silk on Hangzhou tile, but not Jade.

The way I see it Hangzhou would be where the jade is or 1W of the pearls and Shanghai would be 1N of clams or 1E of stone. But 1E of stone is getting a bit far from Shanghai, problem is Shanghai and Hangzhou are pretty much on top of each other IRL. I'd say 1W of pearls HZ and 1W of fish SH would be most accurate but obviously not happening.

 

[soul-breathing]

The way I see it Hangzhou would be where the jade is or 1W of the pearls and Shanghai would be 1N of clams or 1E of stone. But 1E of stone is getting a bit far from Shanghai, problem is Shanghai and Hangzhou are pretty much on top of each other IRL. I'd say 1W of pearls HZ and 1W of fish SH would be most accurate but obviously not happening.

1N of clams is Yancheng, and 1E of stone is Lianyungang.

Shanghai and Nanjing all settle on the south bank of the Yangtze River, and Hangzhou settles on the north bank of Qiantang River. If Shanghai settles on north of the Yangtze River, it will be very weird.

 

[Steb]

I think you could oup a rare earth in Quebec, the province is a leading exporter or various rare minerals

Quebec produces a lot of minerals, but I don't think we produce any of the rare earths specifically in any significant amounts.

 

[netadvocat]

This new map is absolutely amazing! I cant wait to play it! Thanks to everybody, who is contributing.

I have a minor geographical suggestion for the alpine region:

It seems, that the first tile directly east of the Alps is a Plain-Tile. Since this area would represent the Area of Carinthia, maybe also North-West Slovenia, maybe parts of North-East Italy and West Styria (all hilly, partially mountainous, partially heavily forested terrain), another forested hill (as one tile above) would best represent the area.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know much about the region, but it seems Tasmania should at least be expanded by 1 tile west to make it equivalent to the current map.

True.

There goes my UP idea for Teotihuacan...

It was a good idea, but I think all Mesoamerican civs have this problem. Find solace in the fact that it will be a long time until this map is ready to play.

The Inca get copper, so it's not much of a problem, is it? But Wikipedia says that "in Chile obsidian tools from Chaitén Volcano have been found as far away as in Chan-Chan 400 km (250 mi) north of the volcano and also in sites 400 km south of it" (note: not the same Chan-Chan) so there could be some obsidian in Chile.

Yeah, I read that too, but was wondering whether the copper is enough, so I didn't place any.

I like the Rare Earth, it's very unexpected. What tech will reveal it?

Yeah, it's genuinely scarce resource in the modern world that has applications in many currently relevant technologies, so I'm surprised that no mod that I know currently has it (the art is C2C's Titanium, funnily enough). The resource is currently revealed by Metallurgy and made accessible with Electronics.

Yes, exactly. At least that's how I see it. (I may be wrong though so there's that...)

No, that makes sense. I read that the Yangtze delta was a historical source of Jade so I placed the resource there without giving much thought to city locations. Looks like we need to find a way to accomodate Hangzhou.

Leo, do you plan to make a new branch in github, to develop this new map online? It may be more convienient for us to suggest. For now, I can't add these new resourses on recent version of DoC.

I do, but it will take a while. I first wanted to get my final version of the map out there. This includes some changes to the available options (like the resources I have just added, but there will also be additions for terrain types and features). If these additions come out in parallel with other suggestions, those suggestions quickly come out of date because they do not take new terrain types etc. into account. I also want to avoid people making suggestions for areas where I already have plans to avoid unneccessary collision between those ideas (instead the suggestion should be made as a diff to my changes).

Judging from past experiences even with the explicit request not to do so suggestions will likely crop up immediately after the branch is pushed. I would prefer a more orderly course of events.

In the meantime, you have to use the base map and work from there. I understand that it is getting progressively out of date but for most suggestions it should still be serviceable.

 

[Bautos42]

If we're adding as many new resources, I think we should also add amber to the map, as it was a quite important trade commodity in Europe. Gameplaywise, the civs that would mainly profit from this resource would be Germany, Scandinavia, Poland and maybe Russia. The additional happiness and commerce migth really benefit those civs, considering that they are not supposed to be colonising like the western european civs. Furthermore, central Europe has little vaiety of luxury resources, adding amber would relive the situation. As amber should be considered a maritime resource, this would also make those civs more powerful without crowding the area with additional land resources, reducing the amount of conventional improvements. When I designed this map, I actually planned to add amber, but later removed it again in order to limit the aviable resources in game. Hence I decided to only add those resources that I considered essential, namely olives, cocoa and potatoes. As this issue has been adressed, I see no reason not to add amber. Another resource that migth be added, although this is far less important, migth be citrus fruits.

Concerning Tasmania, I deliberately reduced it in size, as I felt it to be oversized on the current map. As I did not feel it to be as important for a city to be placed there, I decided against having Tasmania being larger. Note that the amount of workable tiles remains unchanged, as I removed the mountain on Tasmania. But if there is a reason why Tasmania should have 4 tiles, I see no reason not to increase it in size.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, I had also considered amber, but my research on where it is found outside of the Baltic Sea came to insufficient results.

About Tasmania, I honestly need to look at some maps to get a sense of what would be right there.

 

[1SDANi]

While we're on the topic of resources, PLEASE ADD TIN.

When making the Hittites, I was so annoyed that I couldn't represent the importance of their Tin.

Perhaps resources that require either Iron or Copper could instead require either Iron or both Copper and Tin

 

[star15389]

Someone suggested adding opium before and I remember suggesting that Germany get access to it to represent their leadership in industrial chemistry and give them at least some luxuries. Logic applies even more strongly to Dye.

Will Rubber be required to build tanks and aircraft? It probably should be. Will it possible to get access to rubber without owning any tropical tiles, as with Germany and America's massive synthetic rubber programs in World War II?

 

[Bautos42]

.Will Rubber be required to build tanks and aircraft? It probably should be. Will it possible to get access to rubber without owning any tropical tiles, as with Germany and America's massive synthetic rubber programs in World War II?

This could be represented by rubber giving a production bonus to these units: If you have no access to natural rubber, you have to synthesize it, hence the production cost goes up.

Yes, I had also considered amber, but my research on where it is found outside of the Baltic Sea came to insufficient results.

Amber should probably be abundant in the Baltic Sea, with some isolated sources at the Nort Sea, Hispaniola, the eastern USA near New Jersey, the Ukraine and Burma. (To represent the non-baltic varieties, amber could be implemented as both a naval and land resource, similar to oil.)

 

[Steb]

It was a good idea, but I think all Mesoamerican civs have this problem. Find solace in the fact that it will be a long time until this map is ready to play.

It's true that it was a partial solution to a deeper problem. Man, this map changes the game in Mesoamerica so much. I can't wait.

Yes, I had also considered amber, but my research on where it is found outside of the Baltic Sea came to insufficient results.

Amber would be nice. I'd say it's fine if amber is a very localized resource on the Baltic coast. It would make the region a contested prize between the Germans, Scandinavians, Poles and Russians, as happened in reality. It would tie in nicely with the future Amber Room wonder.

There should also be an amber in the Dominican Republic (which would make the Caribbean more interesting to colonize as well) and there could be one in Burma.

 

[mysterious_stalker]

I noticed that the Bug river in Poland (tributary to the Vistula) has been removed. Is this intentional? It was present on the previous map, I'm not entirely sure why it would be removed on the larger map. It could make Warsaw a more desirable spot to settle due to a better strategical location (75% surrounded by rivers).

 

[Leoreth]

This could be represented by rubber giving a production bonus to these units: If you have no access to natural rubber, you have to synthesize it, hence the production cost goes up.

Yeah, I have also plans to introduce it as a something influencing upkeep costs. The systems for this aren't really in place yet so I would like to be conservative.

Amber should probably be abundant in the Baltic Sea, with some isolated sources at the Nort Sea, Hispaniola, the eastern USA near New Jersey, the Ukraine and Burma. (To represent the non-baltic varieties, amber could be implemented as both a naval and land resource, similar to oil.)

Are those other sources all sea based or do they include the land based sources you mentioned? It's easily possible to have multiple improvements for a resources like Oil does, but if possible I prefer water locations for space reasons.

I noticed that the Bug river in Poland (tributary to the Vistula) has been removed. Is this intentional? It was present on the previous map, I'm not entirely sure why it would be removed on the larger map. It could make Warsaw a more desirable spot to settle due to a better strategical location (75% surrounded by rivers).

Not intentional by me, maybe Bautos can shed some light on it. But I will also take a look.

 

[Leoreth]

So I found this, which is probably enough to justify the resource. It's mostly in not so resource rich parts of the world too.

 

[Bautos42]

Are those other sources all sea based or do they include the land based sources you mentioned? It's easily possible to have multiple improvements for a resources like Oil does, but if possible I prefer water locations for space reasons.

Not intentional by me, maybe Bautos can shed some light on it. But I will also take a look.

Concerning the amber, I think the Burmese and Ukrainian depots would be landlocked, while the other ones could be represented by maritime resources. There also seems to be amber from Sri Lanka, but it is probably to minor in order to represent it.

Concerning those questions of the sort "Why is this feature present on the current map but not on the larger one", the simple answer is that I designed the map from scratch. Thus, I might just not have added the feature, because it did not seem important enough. After all, we have to make a choice which rivers to include. If the consensus is that the Bug river is important enough, then let's add it. But I personally would not consider it a sufficient argument for something to be included because it was included on the previous map. The argument concerning the strategic location is a valid point though.