Am I the only one disappointed that this "big" patch barely fixed any bugs?
- Thread starter bumpyglint
- Start date
j51
Blue Star Cadet
lol. There are lots of sloppy problems with the game but it is still fun as heck! It’ll all get ironed out.
SeelingCat
Prince
I saw it while reviewing the diff notes that Gedemon kindly publishes here:
LilBudyWizer
Warlord
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Code:
773 files changed, 20461 insertions(+), 16713 deletions(-)Apparently Gedemon created a github repository for all the human readable files then publishes the diff when updates are released. Just taking a cursory look at that there was apparently a bug when there's 5 players during game setup. What exactly that was I'm not sure, but it's not listed in the release notes. I just looked at the javascript files but what Gedemon did includes javascript, typescript, sql and xml. There are also all the binaries which would be most of the 5gb. The release notes are a news release. I think all those changes that never get mentioned is the real problem. The problem is endemic across the corporate world though. The internet has become so hostile and toxic that companies have reverted to just pushing information out and taking nothing back in. Across many companies they need a public facing issue tracking database. It would seem an AI chatbot would be a good interface for that.
I don't mean some quant chatbot running a canned script that use to be read out loud by someone in India that never used the product. I mean like ChatGPT where it's trained to have a lot of expertise on the subject. Just training it on this site would be a lot of expertise. Throw in the social media sites and it gets better. Throw in some internal documentation and it gets better still. Amazon uses one to summarize reviews that works pretty good. I don't mean as a replacement for real, live people, but as an interface. How does one person deal with a million users? Often that million users only have a few hundred issues, at least when it comes to a single product. One person can deal with hundreds of issues if they don't have to read thousands of posts about each of them.
Using Songhai as an example you should be able to find if they are aware of the problem and if so then how high of a priority is it to them to fix it. If they aren't aware of it, then be able to report it. Prompt you with questions to better explain the problem. Give you some feedback like this problem has been reported 5,698 times and given it a priority of 4 out of 5. Ok, I guess I'll accept they are aware of it and likely to fix it soon.
I get why people are upset by the state of the game at release, so I am, but there are some things that are not as easy to fix as they look.
For example, a fix can be one line or two of codes, but that could impact others, and those need to be tested.
at first a was going to add "and it's one line in the middle of a few hundreds of thousands", then I get curious.
base game only, no DLC/Extra (there are 600+ XML files in those too, but smaller)
Code:
http://cloc.sourceforge.net v 1.64 T=277.25 s (9.0 files/s, 6089.4 lines/s)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Language files blank comment code
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
XML 688 2583 4542 1216457
Javascript 680 1718 16784 166105
TypeScript 601 27945 15871 148684
CSS 174 6346 899 37575
SASS 207 4661 380 24013
SQL 17 222 261 5833
HTML 112 377 143 5768
JSON 11 0 0 1118
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUM: 2490 43852 38880 1605553
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------1.6 millions, and that's without the source code.
(Ok, translation texts may be a good portion of the XML, but still...)
bumpyglint
Warlord
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Just to be precise, I'm having tons of fun with the game, that's why I'm so critic with it and that's why I'd like so much that the main problems would be addressed
This at least is a really good news, but I really have no idea why they should not report it in the main notes. Hope they'll fix also the rest
I can understand this for problems like "AI get armies stucked while it attacks IP if they are not hostile anymore", but I really can't accept it for stuff like "songhai bonus get applied everywhere" or "Naval discount with carthage works for all the type of units, not only ships".
This is not even considerable a bug that happens in a specific situation, this is something that everyone at their first match with this civs can see. This means that they have completely avoided any test with them (including tests for a 30 $ DLC Civ), or that they tested it, ignored it, released it anyway and then completely avoided it for weeks/ months (hoping all of these will be fixed sooner or later).
If everyone will keep accepting this this will never change.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Other than translated text, XML is very verbose markup language and if formatted it could contain a lot of lines just for various tags. But nonetheless, it's impressive (and messy - the code, which has JS with TS, XML with Json and CSS with SASS looks like missing good technical coordination).
Who's accepting anything? "these things take time / might be more complicated than they look" is a valid opinion. Unless you're into people not having different opinions, in which case good luck - we're all fanatics here
LilBudyWizer
Warlord
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Cool tool, I like that. I'm going to have to start following you. I could see arguments over byte counts on those XML files but nearly every line required someone to make a decision, even the language translations. I might be willing to trust automation to populate it, but I would want a human to actually verify it. You can nitpick the code numbers, but it gives a good idea of the scale. You don't just have to set a flag, or select an item from a dropdown list, you have to set the right flags and select the right items.
99-percent-sure
punches up
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I just noticed the "Labor Shortage" legacy card entering Exploration still displays the text related to the Piety civic rather than the Machinery tech. You'd think that fix would take all of five minutes. It can't be complicated, and it's listed on the Civilization Issues website.
sonicmyst
Emperor
I agree with this.
I feel like Firaxis is biting more than they can chew with Civ 7.
There are so many mix and match combinations at play. Leader and civ abilities, policies and traditions, memento effects, religion and pantheon effects, unit and commander abilities, tile effects, leader attributes.... so many that small effect might blow out an in-game currency or yield. I wonder how they can test everything out and we still have to consider it should work across all platforms.
ThERat
Deity
That's when project management should ensure that the system doesnt get too complicated. I mean, look at Spiffing Brit, how brutally exposes all the exploits. Don't blame the users for it
Leyrann
Deity
Honestly though, with just a few years of casual XML tinkering, I can find practically anything that is done in XML in the first place in like five minutes in the (by now rather familiar) Civilization structure. It sounds like an insane amount of lines but the folders and files and sensibly named and in the actual file you can just search for <Type> and find the correct entry to look at really quickly even if you don't know what it's called.
bumpyglint
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"these things take time / might be more complicated than they look" is a valid opinion that has nothing to do with my post, I'm discussing other points, it should be clear unless you're into people not having different opinionWho's accepting anything? "these things take time / might be more complicated than they look" is a valid opinion. Unless you're into people not having different opinions, in which case good luck - we're all fanatics here
Cute, but you said "everyone", not me"these things take time / might be more complicated than they look" is a valid opinion that has nothing to do with my post, I'm discussing other points, it should be clear unless you're into people not having different opinion
You were also replying to Gedemon, who was saying the exact same thing as me ("might be more complicated to fix").
bumpyglint
Warlord
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That "everyone" has nothing to do with what you saidCute, but you said "everyone", not me
You were also replying to Gedemon, who was saying the exact same thing as me ("might be more complicated to fix").
Smegger213
Chieftain
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How hard can it be to implement mouse pointer edge scrolling of the map?
Who does it have to do with? It followed your reply to Gedemon, and seemed to be a part of that reply. If it wasn't a reply to Gedemon, what "this" is anyone accepting?
You made a point, I'm just trying to explore what you meant by it.
Noble Zarkon
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Basic rule of software development - no matter how much testing you do users will find combinations that trigger bugs you weren't aware of! Especially in a game like Civ VII where the sheer volume of users dwarfs the dev team.
Leyrann
Deity
This is true. A hundred full-time QA testers working 40 hours a week for three months (13 weeks) straight rack up a total of 52 000 hours of playtesting. A million users playing for thirty minutes each rack up a total of 500 000 hours of gameplay.
You could devote insane resources to QA testing and in just thirty minutes from launch, players have eclipsed the total testing by an order of magnitude.
However - and this is where the issue lies - once the game is out, and all the feedback is coming in, why does it still take a lot of time to adjust things? Why do they not have one person who spends one afternoon, say 1 pm to 5 pm, first three hours skimming through forum posts, reddit posts, steam discussions et cetera that are about game balance (who's weak, who's strong, etc etc) to make notes, and then in the last hour of their afternoon gets into the XML files and tweaks some numbers here and there to better balance civs and leaders? Just halve Hawaii's naval culture bonuses, reduce the values of the Maya bonuses, et cetera. You can quite literally do a rough balancing pass like that in one afternoon with near-zero chance of introducing bugs. I've done such passes myself in mods for Civ VI, Civ IV and Colonization. And Civ VII actually (I should upload that mod - only game pacing though).
Obviously, bugs can be quite a bit harder to track down, but even then, some of the reported bugs are this simple. A building's yields and tooltip not aligning can only be in two spots, for example - the tooltip or the building's XML.
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