Am I the only one that doesnt like opening with Prosperity?

[bhavv]

It just makes filling Knowledge and Industry slower. I like all the virtues from Mind over Matter and below, but the ones above it I dont find necessary, just the +15% worker speed one I like. I can build plenty enough colonists and workers anyway.

I like to put 10 virtues into both Knowledge and Industry first, and then go down to the bottom of prosperity for the health boosts after.

 

[mnf]

Are you saying you get 10 in Knowledge and 10 in Industry, only then go prosperity? Or 10 in Knowledge+Industry, then prosperity?

I'm experimenting with Pathfinders > Field Research > Commoditization openings. That's 7 techs which is reasonable for non-REX strategies to get quickly in the opening. By this time I'd see two stations nearby to know if I want Alternative Markets. AI factions would also have all made planetfall, so I know if I have space to comfortably go wide with Networked Datalinks and Memeweb. Or whether neighbors are so close that I should go Colony Initiative and Pioneer Spirit.

Having Pathfinders would also grant me reasonably quick access to Mind Over Matter for 7 Health and Joy from Variety for another 4 or 5 instant Health.

I'm finding this hybrid opening feels much more powerful than straight one-tree openings. Well, feels much more powerful, whether it indeed is more powerful I have no idea. Maybe it's only useful for Mercury difficulty. :3

 

[Aeson]

I may not like it ... but 3 into Prosperity for Colony Initiative is what I'll do anyway ...

 

[EsnesNommoc]

I most prefer Industry, then Knowledge.

 

[Acken]

I feel the free colonist is too good to pass even if you won't invest more into prosperity :O It kickstarts your start too much because of OP trade routes.

 

[bhavv]

I meant 10 into knowledge and 10 into industry, 20 virtues total, then I head to the bottom of prosperity for the health bonuses.

 

[Resipsa]

that's a lot of virtues, I usually go 10 in Industry and then fill out Knowledge, of course I'm only building or conquering about 12 cities total so no ICS

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't like it either, because it's too good by an obvious margin.

 

[Jimbo30]

Industry is good but it's sub optimal currently, no denying that. If I was really trying I'd go at least 3 in prosperity simply for the colony pod, then the good 10 or 11 industry virtues. Note this also gets you the free tier 1 virtue, making it even better...

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I usually start with Knowledge.
Early game is a bit slower, but the extra Science and Culture yield plus reduced penalties from # of cities makes up for that. I usually go Prosperity after that but just rush down through the middle to get Eudaimonia asap.

 

[MechMedic130]

I really like the Prosperity start, it's great early game. However, I feel like if I didn't start Prosperity for whatever reason I wouldn't bother with it mid-late game. I like Industry quite a bit, Investment combined with Gift Economy from Prosperity and some of the other Energy virtues can get out of control fast. Anytime I'd get a lull in things I can produce I start producing energy. There is stretches of time still fairly early in the game where I was getting over 200 energy per turn. It's dip back down to 140ish once I'd ease up on it but I easily managed to accumulate 10,000 energy which became my new 0 for energy, as long as you keep 10,000 energy in the bank you'll get 100 energy per turn from Investment. It's just stupid money.

 

[MadDjinn]

It's situational.

I tell everyone to never open with knowledge, but then did just that in my Franco-Iberia contact LP due to all of the expedition sites.

I eventually went back for prosperity, but then worked both and a little industry.

Every map/game is different and the free colonist right away is not "always" the best choice.

 

[ahawk]

Prosperity is dependent on my starting choices.

As the African faction, you get 10% extra food, and if you choose either the seeding bonus of +2 food or anything that grants +1 health, you can use all of this to good effect and synergy with Prosperity.

And if you can add the Ectogensis Pod wonder (+1 food per farm, I think) or the one for +10% growth, both of which appear earlier-on depending which way you tech, you can end up with pretty tall cities pretty fast.

But what makes Prosperity way, way better than it could have been is that you now can make any terrain type grow a good amount of food. So, no more 'oooo, heavy tundra start, not good', and so on.

Honestly, Might is the branch I go least often. Unless I see ton of aliens in the first few turns, I have little reason to go Might until much later (lots of aliens early on allow Might to be amazing if you take the policy for earning science per hive/alien killed).

 

[mnf]

But what makes Prosperity way, way better than it could have been is that you now can make any terrain type grow a good amount of food. So, no more 'oooo, heavy tundra start, not good', and so on.

But tundra start is still very low food before you can tech your way up into the second ring, isn't it? I don't think I've had a tundra start yet...I've had desert starts and floodplains give me good food.

 

[Soffacet]

It just makes filling Knowledge and Industry slower. I like all the virtues from Mind over Matter and below, but the ones above it I dont find necessary, just the +15% worker speed one I like. I can build plenty enough colonists and workers anyway.

I like to put 10 virtues into both Knowledge and Industry first, and then go down to the bottom of prosperity for the health boosts after.

Prosperity has "free stuff" policies which are logical to get early in the game when they represent a large %-increase to your total stuff. Its pretty horrid as a 2nd or 3rd tree since you have to plow through so many policies that are no longer useful, and the policies at the bottom aren't necessary either since health can be spammed so many different ways with mid-game tech.

 

[ahawk]

But tundra start is still very low food before you can tech your way up into the second ring, isn't it? I don't think I've had a tundra start yet...I've had desert starts and floodplains give me good food.

Tundra is admittedly still a hindrance, but it's not like you are forever doomed to almost no food in those tiles since you can now Terraform as well as build a building that adds +1 food to all tundra tiles worked by the city.

And until any of that, there's always the large number of TRs you can get running quite quickly for food/hammers (in Civ V, TRs only maxed out at 8 or 10 routes, prior to any special abilities or wonders, in the late game... now you can get 8 TRs up much quicker).

Again, Tundra is less than ideal, but between the earlier ability to get many trade-routes up, as well as Terraform, as well as build orbital units to increase or add tile yield, I have to say that Prosperity is always a pretty good option.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

[...]as well as build a building that adds +1 food to all tundra tiles worked by the city.

Really? Which one is that? Only thing I know is the Mass Digestor, but that does only provide +1 Energy.

From what I experienced, tundra is a really harsh environment to start - you have to go Terrascape or you won't be able to keep up with your enemies. Desert in comparison is trivial, considering that the Vivarium is just 1 tech away from start.

 

[ahawk]

Really? Which one is that? Only thing I know is the Mass Digestor, but that does only provide +1 Energy.

From what I experienced, tundra is a really harsh environment to start - you have to go Terrascape or you won't be able to keep up with your enemies. Desert in comparison is trivial, considering that the Vivarium is just 1 tech away from start.

Hmmm... you might be right. I might have been thinking of the Vivarium for deserts.

In any case, there are still way more buildings that add food in general, as a straight yield rather than a percentage modifier to existing yields.

But yes, I think you are right that the Vivarium is what I was thinking of (though perhaps the Mass Digestor has a quest for food per tile or food percentage or something... those pesky quests aren't mentioned in the civilopedia IIRC).

 

[ZHONN]

I prefer Industry and especially Knowledge but the free colonist and worker speed improvements are very useful.

 

[CraigMak]

Prosperity is clearly the best virtue path. 10% growth followed by a free settler, free worker, worker efficiency, then massive health benefits. Are you kidding me? Prosperity allows you to go wide AND tall, it really is crazy.