Am I the only one that doesnt like opening with Prosperity?
- Thread starter bhavv
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Messages
- 2,686
Um, the post I was responding to was about MP.
Oh, derp. Yeah, the penalty scales the new cost to +10% of the base cost, not +10% of the current cost. Listen to Acken, everyone.
Empedocles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 18, 2012
- Messages
- 62
You do if your neighbor goes might and wants your free colony for his own. You can pull off a pretty mean rush on one city by researching chemistry and physics before pioneering, and everyone doing the standard build will have their pants around their legs. And, you won't have dumped 3 valuable virtues into a dead end for a short term bonus. The rest of the prosperity tree is pretty crap, compared to any other tree. Health is too easy to manage with genetics + any virtue tree.
After playing four openings on epic from similar starts, here are my thoughts.
Prosperity:
Gives the quickest start. Some cost in long term benefit, but as everyone has pointed out there are several exponential effects. E.g. quicker cities, means quicker trade routes leading to more cities and more trade routes.
Industry:
After 200 turns I was at about the same point as with the Prosperity start. Some really nice virtues that are going to be useful well into the endgame. Magnasanti solved all my health problems. The excess energy you get effectively means you don't need to bother with a defensive army. And buildings more buildings always good.
Might:
Well if you want a bashy game, your units get stronger and you get science from aliens. Kind of works, expect personally I think going Industry and just buying all the units you want is probably easier. Still should be effective on marathon with a map with lots of aliens. Worth a try if fed up with prosperity and industry starts.
Knowledge.
Just does not seem to work IMHO. The virtues just don't cut it at the start. However knowledge makes a good second tree. As when you get to the middle stage when your health is staying positive and your ICS is taking off, then it works.
Edit:
Going to try a bashy start, taking scavenging then focusing on Industry.
Prosperity:
Gives the quickest start. Some cost in long term benefit, but as everyone has pointed out there are several exponential effects. E.g. quicker cities, means quicker trade routes leading to more cities and more trade routes.
Industry:
After 200 turns I was at about the same point as with the Prosperity start. Some really nice virtues that are going to be useful well into the endgame. Magnasanti solved all my health problems. The excess energy you get effectively means you don't need to bother with a defensive army. And buildings more buildings always good.
Might:
Well if you want a bashy game, your units get stronger and you get science from aliens. Kind of works, expect personally I think going Industry and just buying all the units you want is probably easier. Still should be effective on marathon with a map with lots of aliens. Worth a try if fed up with prosperity and industry starts.
Knowledge.
Just does not seem to work IMHO. The virtues just don't cut it at the start. However knowledge makes a good second tree. As when you get to the middle stage when your health is staying positive and your ICS is taking off, then it works.
Edit:
Going to try a bashy start, taking scavenging then focusing on Industry.
Becephalus
King
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 725
Prosperity is clearly better. Of course you don't always need to do what is better. A free colonist is a terrible virtue reward because it is extremely hard to balance.
Empedocles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 18, 2012
- Messages
- 62
Try opening knowledge and industry concurrently. Industry has some awesome mid-game bonuses, but if you go straight industry they are generally pretty useless when you get them. What good is a 25% Rome bonus when you are still building your first settler? On the other hand, if you wait until you finish Industry, knowledge will not be much help. So get the culture bonuses from knowledge early, so that you can fill out both trees quickly and get some nice synergy bonuses.
My suggested virtue order:
Foresight
Labor Logistics
Commoditization (save up to buy trade depots in new cities)
Social Mores
Laboratory Apprenticeship
Standardized Architechture (should be building infrastructure in your first city at this point)
Cohesive Values (free from synergy bonus)
Profiteering (at this point you should be building enough trade routes to make this useful)
Interdependence Network (your trade route empire should be building up strongly at this point)
Investment, Alternative markets, Networked Datalinks, Memeweb, and Community medicine in the order that fits your needs best. The bonus for networked datalinks and memeweb gets very large as your number of cities passes 10. After getting the tier 2 synergy bonus, fill up tier 3 of knowledge and industry.
My suggested virtue order:
Foresight
Labor Logistics
Commoditization (save up to buy trade depots in new cities)
Social Mores
Laboratory Apprenticeship
Standardized Architechture (should be building infrastructure in your first city at this point)
Cohesive Values (free from synergy bonus)
Profiteering (at this point you should be building enough trade routes to make this useful)
Interdependence Network (your trade route empire should be building up strongly at this point)
Investment, Alternative markets, Networked Datalinks, Memeweb, and Community medicine in the order that fits your needs best. The bonus for networked datalinks and memeweb gets very large as your number of cities passes 10. After getting the tier 2 synergy bonus, fill up tier 3 of knowledge and industry.
The free colonist into more health is just too good for me to even consider the other trees. Getting 2 fast cities and immediately getting 2 trade routes out from your cap gets you so much production and food that nothing comes close. Then the higher tier stuff is good for getting up to positive health again as it will drop down insanely fast with how much food you get from trade routes.
Cannonballninja
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2013
- Messages
- 34
The free colonist is so good. But the rest of the Prosperity tree is just not all that shiny. I honestly prefer Industry because its virtues are just so much stronger overall, and it still has exceptional Health bonuses: Profiteering is better than Mind Over Matter after you've got just 4 cities, and Magnasanti is competitive enough with Eudaimonia.
But that free colonist is very tempting...
Knowledge feels like a great secondary tree, and it's pretty nice in that regard. There are some good benefits in there that just get better the more cities you've got. Special mention goes to Field Research. If you've got something like Retrograde Thrusters and know there's a ton of expeditions around (or you just stumble onto, say 3-5) then it can give you a great early slingshot.
Might is Might. Though in BE I think it's a really competitive tree. If you want to do Might, I think it's mandatory to go with Lifeform Sensors on your ship so you know if Scavenging is worth cracking open. Adaptive Sciences and Martial Meditations will absolutely rocket you up the Affinity ladder, and will definitely tip the scales in your favour. I really like that military, erm, 'advancement' isn't only tech based in BE. It lets Might stay competitive without giving it a ton of science bonuses. Brutal Efficiency is also nice for simply improving your cities if you've finished with all your warring - there are lots of strong buildings that require strategic resources.
But that free colonist is very tempting...
Knowledge feels like a great secondary tree, and it's pretty nice in that regard. There are some good benefits in there that just get better the more cities you've got. Special mention goes to Field Research. If you've got something like Retrograde Thrusters and know there's a ton of expeditions around (or you just stumble onto, say 3-5) then it can give you a great early slingshot.
Might is Might. Though in BE I think it's a really competitive tree. If you want to do Might, I think it's mandatory to go with Lifeform Sensors on your ship so you know if Scavenging is worth cracking open. Adaptive Sciences and Martial Meditations will absolutely rocket you up the Affinity ladder, and will definitely tip the scales in your favour. I really like that military, erm, 'advancement' isn't only tech based in BE. It lets Might stay competitive without giving it a ton of science bonuses. Brutal Efficiency is also nice for simply improving your cities if you've finished with all your warring - there are lots of strong buildings that require strategic resources.
I'm a big fan of might but I stay away from the two on the left side dealing with aliens and pick them up later to get the second free affinity once the rest of the tree is filled. I'm still confused about what adaptive science actually does do you 20% extra from quests it seems unclear because it talks about technology in the description.
Cannonballninja
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2013
- Messages
- 34
Scavenging is a very strong virtue if you have a couple of alien nests you can farm. Early aliens will give you between 6-12 science a kill (and this early in the game you're probably only making, say, 5-10 science a turn). And clearing the nests themselves nets you about 60 science. That's why I'd recommend taking Life Form Scanner if you're planning to go Might - it'll let you know if those virtues are worth it!
As for Adaptive Sciences, whenever you research a technology that gives you Affinity points (say Genetic Mapping for Purity) you get a certain amount of Affinity XP depending on the level of the technology you just researched. Adaptive Sciences increases the Affinity XP you get from those technologies. So you need to research less of them to get to the higher Affinity levels. Basically, it lets you beeline military techs more easily without deviating too much just to pick up the Affinity points you need to unlock your next set of upgrades.
Similar threads
