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Am I the only one that doesnt like opening with Prosperity?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by bhavv, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. InfinityV

    InfinityV Chieftain

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    Free colonist is basically already meta in every multiplayer match. Every player will try to double expand or risk falling behind Polyaustralia or Kavithian (both of which are guaranteed to double expand and very quickly)
     
  2. ZHONN

    ZHONN Chieftain

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    I just tried a proper full prosperity game and didn't really manage to stay in positive health with it. I won, of course, but I feel I miss Knowledge. The increased science and culture costs really hurt. Isn't it 2/3 more expensive for techs and virtues without the early knowledge virtues with just 10 cities?
     
  3. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    Prosperity is my go-to Virtue tree right from the start every game. I'd LIKE for the other Virtues to be just as good, but getting a free second city really early on and vast amounts of extra health is just too good to pass up.

    Once I have a massive empire, the -40% expansion penalty on Science and Culture Virtues in Knowledge are pretty good to go for.

    Well, Prosperity has more health in it than any other tree, so if you hadn't gone Prosperity you'd have been even further in negative health.
     
  4. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

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    Biowells can make most of Prosperity unnecessary. But Colony Initiative is always the right move outside of OCC (forced or self-imposed)
     
  5. ZHONN

    ZHONN Chieftain

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    It doesn't really matter when it's something like -35. In the beginning phase I generally don't care about unhappiness at all, just getting as many as possible defendable cities. When that's done, and I haven't really been missing on tech, it's only 10-20 turns to get massive amounts of health from buildings.

    Industry finisher also has nice health, 0,2 a building if I remember right. That's easily three a city. Buildings can easily give at least five, pharmalabs alone give three. It can also be beneficial to steal science for Soma Distilleries, for example. That's +4 health from a single building.
     
  6. mnf

    mnf King

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    Just a quick question for those of you who really actually ignore health in the initial expansion phase: how many virtues do you generally get to by turn 150 or so? Are you generally getting 1 virtue every 20 turns by then, or better, or worse?
     
  7. Soffacet

    Soffacet Warlord

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    Initial expansion health shouldn’t really affect virtue acquisition by then. You will have had plenty of time to spam Cyto/Pharma/G-Garden/BioLab and Biowells to fix your health if you really want to. And you should be closing in on XenoSanc/Holosuite/FeedsiteHub/Holomatrix, as well.
     
  8. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    On archipelago maps I like to take two in Knowledge for the science from expeditions and build 4 explorers. I tech space optics first and use the science to rush robotics for fast boats and spies.
     
  9. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

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    I have been playing without prosperity the last few games and I don't like it. Getting the free colonist means a super early city, which means super early trade. With Prosperity my empire is up and running by turn 100. Without that early settler, I feel like I'm struggling at the same point.
     
  10. Autoclave

    Autoclave Warlord

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    I agree, but if you got +2 Engineers colonits, you might just build a lot of stuff yourself.
     
  11. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    After testing a bit more I think that a Prosperity start is indeed much better than Knowledge if you have enough territory to expand into. It also allows increases your chances to dodge the first station taking up your spot - which is pretty significant.

    Knowledge, however, seems to catch up rather quickly past turn 120 or so. Around turn 150 the difference between the two was quite small (and some of that could have been due to variance, since Knowledge lost the best map spot to a station and thus had a bit less pop).

    Maybe the way to balance the thing would be to remove the free colonist and instead turn it into a 40% production for settler bonus. But then again trade routes are completely OP atm, so maybe a nerf to them and/or a tweak to health effects might change the balance enough to make the other trees more viable.
     
  12. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Without prosperity I can easily get a 4-6 city empire up and running by turn 80, so how much better exactly are you doing by turn 100?

    The colonist virtue is IMO a wasted virtue because it makes all the rest of your virtues so expensive to get when you can already build plenty of colonists in the early stages of the game.
     
  13. Mysticforce

    Mysticforce Chieftain

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    Well, the free colonist virtue will let you get your cities faster by a minimum of the number of turns it takes you to create your first colonist. This means you can get trade routes up faster, thus speeding up growth of at least two cities faster...etc. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter all that much, but the difference is large in the early game.

    That being said, occasionally I go with Industry first, just to mix it up a bit and go on alien cleansing wars - Starship Troopers style.
     
  14. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Possibly someone could prove that getting a free settler is worth it, but it certainly comes at a big cost. It's multiple virtues in and is a dead end and provides no direct benefit after the settler. At least, that's enough that I don't *feel* like it's a "must choose" option.
     
  15. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    The culture one is much better because it allows you to plow through the prosperity tree and get that stuff lightning quick. Maybe even faster than you could build a settler and worker. Also, the game is so luck based that you have to make explorers or you are incredibly screwed.
     
  16. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

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    Focusing on direct benefits and of course it's just 1 Settler. But leveraging early benefits into larger later ones is what Civ is all about. You start with one Colony .. . it's just 1 ... but it's indespensible because it represents 100% of your faction and anything your faction will ever do. Another extra early Colony decreases the % importance, but still has the same long-lasting effect on your faction.

    1 extra city means 2 extra cities. 2 extra cities means 4 extra cities. 4 extra cities means 8 extra cities. There's no game mechanic in CivBE to stop this type of snowball. Health isn't going to stop you, and the AI can't do anything about it either if you bother to pick up Affinity 4 relatively early. All these cities have benefits. Not just for you, but also in regards to things you're taking away from your competition. Resources and output.

    Increased # of cities also means better internal Trade Routes on average, since you will have a wider range to choose from.
     
  17. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    This is how I do my policies:



    Usually 4 Knowledge to -1=% culture cost for policies, then grab +15% wonder production, then the -40% science and culture penalties, then fill Industry up to 5 point bonus, fill knowledge to 1- points, fill industry to 10 (left side down to magnasanti + investment), then go down to the bottom of prosperity to fix my health..
     
  18. Watiggi

    Watiggi Deity

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    Odd. I'm finding it difficult not to go down the Prosperity route. I like the early expansion and late rapid expansion that comes with it. Farms, specialists, rapid city growth, rapid outpost growth, lots of trade routes using the African nation and Refugees. That game in particular I was really lax on culture, so I had bugger all Virtues too... only ended up with a maxed out Prosperity and a 3 or 4 in Knowledge.
     
  19. Jimbo30

    Jimbo30 Prince

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    Tried might for the first time tonight, it's pretty good if you can get on a roll of nests like I did. The tech advancement is pretty extreme early on (after you are upgraded to Marines at least), and that free Affinity point a little later is gold.
     
  20. Myth and Legend

    Myth and Legend Prince

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    You must be playing a different game from me. Lategame health management with any thing above 4 cities is impossible without Prosperity. Allt he helath buildings provide a fraction of what Eudaimonia provides.
     

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