Amazing!

Corruption?

  • I have realized that corruption is good!

    Votes: 40 37.7%
  • I am just waiting for the oppurtunity to say how bad it is!

    Votes: 25 23.6%
  • I have completely removed corruption, as well as trade by removing my capital.

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • I have modded corruption to take the bite out of it.

    Votes: 40 37.7%

  • Total voters
    106
Well, the poll turned out about how I thought it would. I like the way corruption works now, and would not be particularly happy if it was toned down even more. I do like Billchin's idea about the shield producing specialist. Of all the proposals for the corruption rules, I think this one would make it more manageable, and less annoying for those who do not like it, while leaving it essentially unchanged for those who do like it.
 
Originally posted by eyrei

Or, like Killer:D , have you reverted to 1.16 so that you can play without a capital and have no corruption?

PS. Killer, we will still accept you into the forces of light if you will only see it.;)

Hey eyrei!

Seems like you never give up!?! Actually, I installed 1.17 to play GOTM5 and corruption wasn`t why I went back now to 1.16. I can handle it, unmodded, but ti sometimes really s****. Well, I`ve talked / mailed with quite a few people (including eyrei:) ) and we`ve come up with a few nice ideas what could be done to corruption like a 20 turn corruption reduction for new cities or corruption reduction for reaching a certain cultural level (per town or per nation), and I guess something like that will have to come to make the large empires that the game forces us to build less tedious.....

Aside from that here`s a minimap from a game where sadly I do play with a capital and thus suffer from corruption. For some strange reason combat in 1.16 seems to be rather close to 1:1 and somehow my spoiling attack against India ended with a decisive victory...... yellow circle is my capital, date is roughly 50 AD...
:cry: :cry: I`ll have to stay a bad-ass despot until Commi comes round, otherwise I`ll never see anything built up there.....
 

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and thanky you, eyrei, for putting in a special option for me! :bow: :bow: :bow: - why don`t we have a bowing-dwarf-smiley?????
 
Originally posted by Killer


Hey eyrei!

Seems like you never give up!?! Actually, I installed 1.17 to play GOTM5 and corruption wasn`t why I went back now to 1.16. I can handle it, unmodded, but ti sometimes really s****.

;) That part was simply a reference to the "Big whine" thread.

I like the idea about certain culture thresholds reducing corruption. This would cause people to spend more time building their culture. I still don't have any problems with it, though.
 
hey eyrei, I`m completely mushy in my brain (too much work), but I did get that reference... ;)

what a pity Cuno closed it down.....

here`s another screenshot from that game, Berlin`s the capial, Bonn (lower left) looses 5 out of 6 prod and 5 out of 6 tax :(
Bremen has a courthouse and looses 4 out of 9 prod despite the fact that it`s only 6 tiles from the capital....
on a map of this size (standard) it means that an average (note: average!) empire end up with useless border cities..... like the US today, after all nothinig valueable ever comes out of any town further from Washington than NY or maybe Baltimore. Chicago - remember the Mafia???? Miami - the US poorhouse! LA and San Francisco - all on the dole; brutal oppression by lots os troops forced people to construct all those wonderful highways... :lol:

the distance from capitol thing is just too high, but setting ONC to say double would in this game mean that the russians will nver get a FP.....
 

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Try getting Bonn to a 6 pop, with a courthouse. It should start producing. Are you sure you want your forbidden palace that close to the capital. I would go kick some ass to the north first, and then build the FP up there somewhere.:cool:

I didn't even notice the "Big Whine" thread got closed. What a shame.
 
Originally posted by Killer
the distance from capitol thing is just too high, but setting ONC to say double would in this game mean that the russians will nver get a FP.....

Hey Killer. Good idea to post an example. You sure pack your towns tight. :) Your corruption does seem awfully high.

What level? What year? What's your starting options? I would be very interested to know. Thanks!
 
Corruption is not such a big problem, just play around with the editor :p
I understand some people feel like cheating when they change stuff with the editor, but if it turns out the changes do work like a cheat just change it back.
In terms of corruption, I have increased the optimal number of cities, will probably give banks the corruption reducing ability as well. As far as I know, banks are the same price for everyone, regardless of civ abilities and wonders built and should therefore (like the increased optimal #of cities) not give any specific civ any major advantage.
I guess many of those whining about corruption are builders just like me, I just need to build 1.000.000.000 cities with everything in them and then roll out some tanks to impress my neighbours :tank:
 
Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
Corruption is not such a big problem, just play around with the editor :p
I understand some people feel like cheating when they change stuff with the editor, but if it turns out the changes do work like a cheat just change it back.
In terms of corruption, I have increased the optimal number of cities, will probably give banks the corruption reducing ability as well. As far as I know, banks are the same price for everyone, regardless of civ abilities and wonders built and should therefore (like the increased optimal #of cities) not give any specific civ any major advantage.
I guess many of those whining about corruption are builders just like me, I just need to build 1.000.000.000 cities with everything in them and then roll out some tanks to impress my neighbours :tank:

Actually, banks and marketplaces are cheaper for commercial civs, who already have slightly reduced corruption.
 
Originally posted by Special_O
I never paid any attention corruption. I just played and played and got bored anyway.

So, you got so bored with CIV3 that you had to go frequent a forum about it?:confused:
 
Originally posted by Zachriel


Hey Killer. Good idea to post an example. You sure pack your towns tight. :) Your corruption does seem awfully high.

What level? What year? What's your starting options? I would be very interested to know. Thanks!

Actually, it is awfully close, but the map was sooo full of plains and hills.....
Level is Regent (kind of a holiday after those frustrating GOTM experiences), year now is around 390 AD, starting options were all random, except Barbarians which are sedentary.

it`s a pretty good game, actually, and the high corruption doesn`t bother me - I have lots of strong towns.... but on higher levels tend to micromanage and poprush like crazy.....
 
Originally posted by eyrei
Try getting Bonn to a 6 pop, with a courthouse. It should start producing. Are you sure you want your forbidden palace that close to the capital. I would go kick some ass to the north first, and then build the FP up there somewhere.:cool:

I didn't even notice the "Big Whine" thread got closed. What a shame.

Yeah, Bonn is going up and will get better, but it still kinda sucks that I`ll have to micromanage poprushing to get it to be productive.....

The FP was kind of an embarrasment building, like I don`t want to loose all those shields but the town produces too slowly to build anything but qan ancient wonder..... So I just decided to build the FP, then kill China which is weak and hopefully then rush a Palace close to the Aztecs so that conquest will have a lower culture flip risk.... HWS, I know :rolleyes:



P.S.: HWS = Hardcore Warmonger Syndrome
 
Originally posted by Killer


Actually, it is awfully close, but the map was sooo full of plains and hills..... but on higher levels tend to micromanage and poprush like crazy.....

Forgot, which government?
 
still despotic! I find that with large maps where I can continue to plunk down towns in good spots, rush a temple and 1 or 2 military units I best stay there until Democracy comes round. Otherwise, corruption/waste will eat me up. The only problem is that the changeover will require lots of happiness because oif all the rushing (I don`t use slave labor camps) so I need Sixtin and Bach and all the lux I can get - there`s your basic warmonger: Leaders for Wonders, territory for Luxuries..... :D

Yes, I`m a professional *******! ;)

would you like to have the savegame to check it out???
 
This is two consecutive days that I agree with Zouave - which is one more than the previous record set yesterday. Editting is not cheating unless you do things the AI is not capable of taking advantage of. Giving a building anti-corruption effects helps you and the AI and makes - for me at least - the game a lot more enjoyable. I like corruption as a concept. As originally implemented by Firaxis, it made the game essentially unplayable on all but the smallest maps. For me, Civilization is about managing a civilization, a large, sprawling, multi-continent/ outpost empire. You can't really do this in vanilla Civ3 - or at least you won't have any fun doing it as 50% of your population is entertainers to keep the pop out of open rebellion. Therefore I have used the editor to make corruption manageable by giving several buildings anti-corruption effects and increasing the max /optimal city number. The latter is not a ridiculous number, not even proportional to the increase in map area, more like the square root of increased area. Still, add a couple of improvements to a far-off city and while not exactly an industrial powerhouse, it becomes self-supporting and may actually be income neutral. A few more improvements and one has a real city. What would I like to see in the editor? One, a corruption/waste slider which I would probably set at about 60%. It is still way too high in the unmodded game. Second, a couple of more divisions in the government/corruption effect table so different governments would have more subtle effects.
 
Originally posted by Killer



The FP was kind of an embarrasment building, like I don`t want to loose all those shields but the town produces too slowly to build anything but qan ancient wonder.....

Hey Killer, I think you just stumbled upon a brilliant strategy. Build the Forbidden Palace very close to the original capital with a high production city. Once it is in place, disband the capital and makes sure it jumps to a high pop city where you want the new capital to be. You get your cake and eat it too! I think I may try this. :cool:
 
Originally posted by eyrei


Actually, banks and marketplaces are cheaper for commercial civs, who already have slightly reduced corruption.

Is think you are wrong here. I just loaded up a game as the French, the cost for marketplaces and banks were the same as for a non-commercial civ. This is in v1.16f, in case it matters.
 
Originally posted by BillChin


Hey Killer, I think you just stumbled upon a brilliant strategy. Build the Forbidden Palace very close to the original capital with a high production city. Once it is in place, disband the capital and makes sure it jumps to a high pop city where you want the new capital to be. You get your cake and eat it too! I think I may try this. :cool:

Sadly, it does have a downside: you loose the old-building culutre bonus from the old Palace since the new one`s age counts from 0 again.....
 
Originally posted by Killer
here`s another screenshot from that game, Berlin`s the capial, Bonn (lower left) looses 5 out of 6 prod and 5 out of 6 tax . . . the distance from capitol thing is just too high, but setting ONC to say double would in this game mean that the russians will nver get a FP.....

The issue is corruption, and I admit I was surprised that your Civ had so much corruption. So I analyzed my current game for comparison to your post to see what differences there were. Corruption in the furthest towns are about 50% without courthouses, quite manageable. My cities are spread considerably further apart allowing me to control a much larger area with a similar number of cities. This will give me more resources as the game progresses.

Take a look:
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/earlymiddleages.htm

(This is a big download, about 2-3 minutes on a phone modem, and should be viewed in 1024x768 due to the size of the graphics.)
 

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