America and Human Rights

[mitsho]

Ok, I've just read a news on Internet:
(SDA is the press agency of Switzerland - like AP -, baz (= Basler Zeitung) the newspaper. I know this is in German, but I couldn't find a translation. therefore I'll sum the news up afterwards.)

USA kritisieren Menschenrechte in der Schweiz

Bern. SDA/baz. Das US-Aussenministerium hat in seinem jährlichen weltweiten Menschenrechtsbericht die Schweiz trotz einer insgesamt positiven Gesamtbilanz in einzelnen Fällen kritisiert. EDA- Sprecherin Carine Carey wollte den Bericht nicht kommentieren. In dem Bericht, der am Freitag von den Westschweizer Zeitungen «Tribune de Genève» und «24 Heures» vorgestellt wurde, beurteilt Washington die Situation in der Schweiz im Allgemeinen als gut. Im Jahr 2004 seien keine politischen Morde im Auftrag der Regierung vorgekommen.

Kritisiert wurden die Kantonspolizeien in der Waadt und in Basel-Stadt, die während Einsätzen zwei Menschen getötet haben. Das US-Aussenministerium hält allerdings fest, dass die Vorgehensweise der Polizei von den Behörden als Notwehr dargestellt werde. Weiter kritisiert das US-Aussenministerium unter Berufung auf den Jahresbericht von Amnesty International auch Fälle von Misshandlungen durch die Kantonspolizeien in Genf, Glarus, Zürich und Basel. Betroffen davon seien vor allem dunkelhäutige Personen.

What it basically says that the US-State Department published a report on how the Human Rights are treated in the different countries. And, it criticizes Switzerland! (but ok, overall, they give us a 'good')

I just thought "What the heck?" I mean, Who sits in the glass house shouldn't throw with stones. It is absolutely cynic that a country, that has Guantanamo, sends people back into countries where they get tortured without giving them a chance to react (=Human Right), and where many many other things exist which I do not want to cite, because I can't prove them. It is absolutely cynic that such a country takes for himself the right to critisize other countries. CLEAN BEFORE YOUR OWN DOOR FIRST!

And all this leads to the fact that probably most countries give a crap on that report. Because why should we follow the advises of someone who gives a bother on Human Rights in his own land. (Just to cite some examples again: Guantanamo, torturing, CIA and all the other secret 'polices', Nicaragua, American prisons, Abu Ghraib, ... The list is just endless).

Some of you will probably answer that it is the task of the US as the world super-mega-hyper power to look on all countries. NO, it's not. That's the task of the UNO of which the US of A are a member.

I'm finished mitsho
Moderator Action: Watch your language - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Thats a pretty damned funny post Anyway, what are you so mad about if you got a 'good' rating? What would you have done if you got a 'fair' rating, lead a commando assault on the US Embassy?

 

[Babbler]

From the State Dept.:

Switzerland

Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2003
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
February 25, 2004

Switzerland is a constitutional democracy with a federal structure. The bicameral Parliament elects the seven members of the "Federal Council" (Swiss cabinet), the highest executive body, whose presidency rotates annually. Due to the nation's linguistic and religious diversity, the political system emphasizes local and national political consensus and grants considerable autonomy to the 26 individual cantons (states). The Parliament was elected on October 19, allowing the Government to remain a grand coalition of the four major parties. A new Constitution took effect in 2000. The judiciary is independent.

The armed forces were a civilian-controlled militia based on universal military service for able-bodied males. There was virtually no standing army apart from training cadres and a few essential headquarters staff. Police duties were primarily a responsibility of the individual cantons, which had their own police forces that were under effective civilian control. There were allegations that a few members of the police forces committed human rights abuses.

A highly developed free enterprise, industrial, and service economy strongly dependent on international trade allowed for a high standard of living for the country's 7.3 million residents.

The Government generally respected the human rights of its citizens; although there were some problems, the law and judiciary provide effective means of dealing with individual instances of abuse. Cantonal police were involved in at least one death during the year. Police occasionally used excessive force, particularly against foreigners and asylum seekers. There continued to be reports of discrimination against foreigners. Trafficking of women and children for prostitution continued to be a problem, which the Government took steps to address.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[stratego]

If Switzerland respects human rights so much why didn't Al Queda attack you? If Al Queda hates freedom it's obvious that they'll attack the country with the most freedom. So what I'm saying is that, Switzerland may 'good' human rights record, but just not as good as ours, that's why we critize you.

 

[punkbass2000]

I would be rather interested to know what rating the US received.

 

[Tomoyo]

If this report was published, where can I find it?

 

[mitsho]

It's not the rating Switzerland got. I mean, if WE would rate the USA, they would probably (that's my image) get one of the worst notes. It's just CYNIC and ridicule that the USA makes a report on countries with GOOD Human rights, when they themself do not accept them (Guantanamo, tortures, Nicaragua, ...). That was the only point I was trying to make. It just does not make sense! (And this is the task of the UNO which did also make a report (afaik) and that one I accept)

@stratego Are you serious? Al-Quaida doesn't hate freedom. They hate America. Or better, the American (foreign) policy. And that's why they attack you, because you're the mightiest, the leading power of their enemies (And everybody is their enemy of course - they are terrorists).
But Freedom doesn't equal America. Afaik(stressed), If you really compare it, most European countries have more personal freedom than the US.

mfG mitsho

PS: I'm always surprised how fast we get answers in the OT-Forum...

 

[punkbass2000]

"@stratego Are you serious?"

Is he ever?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

It's not the rating Switzerland got. I mean, if WE would rate the USA, they would probably (that's my image) get one of the worst notes. It's just CYNIC and ridicule that the USA makes a report on countries with GOOD Human rights, when they themself do not accept them (Guantanamo, tortures, Nicaragua, ...). That was the only point I was trying to make. It just does not make sense! (And this is the task of the UNO which did also make a report (afaik) and that one I accept)

The U.S regularly gets criticized by Amnesty International. Any country or international orginization is free to rate countries human rights record, and many do. Its just your obvious searing hatred of the U.S. thats prompted such a strong reaction from you.

 

[stratego]

When a Swiss police beats a Swiss civilian that's unnecessary. The average Swiss citizen already believes in Freedom and Democracy, they don't need to have those ideas beaten into them. In Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo, that's different. Those people still haven't had the ideas of Freedom and Democracy beaten into them yet.

 

[mitsho]

@punkbass I do not know Stratego, but I think I got your point ....

@Bozo Erectus I absolutely do not hate the USA! I like it as a country and the people there. But I just can't stand the policy you make. Perhaps, all Swiss are a bit biased after what happened in the 90's. (I'm talking of the 'Let's squeeze some more money out of Switzerland because of what happened in WWII while we just don't care what bad the USA did and thus do not need to pay back anything')
But I just want to repeat. I really do not despise the US. this article just made me laugh.

mfG mitsho

 

[Bozo Erectus]

@Bozo Erectus I absolutely do not hate the USA! I like it as a country and the people there. But I just can't stand the policy you make. Perhaps, all Swiss are a bit biased after what happened in the 90's. (I'm talking of the 'Let's squeeze some more money out of Switzerland because of what happened in WWII while we just don't care what bad the USA did and thus do not need to pay back anything')
But I just want to repeat. I really do not despise the US. this article just made me laugh.

Ok Mitsho, I'll take your word for it. But since I started talking to Europeans regularly here at CFC, Ive gotten used to Europeans foaming at the mouth about the 'evil' U.S., practically out of control, and then ending their post with 'I really love America!'.

 

[Rhymes]

"@stratego Are you serious?"

Is he ever?

Nope, never. I think it has something to do with his sig....

 

[AceChilla]

Switserland should just do the same.

"well we have seen some police brutality over here and there, a little prison in Cuba where people are held without any rights, you invaded a souverein nation... Mmmmh Well we think you should have a B-. Nothing to worry about. Carry on like you are doing USA. Just remember Switserland is watching you. And we will see how do do next year."

 

[Babbler]

When a Swiss police beats a Swiss civilian that's unnecessary. The average Swiss citizen already believes in Freedom and Democracy, they don't need to have those ideas beaten into them. In Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo, that's different. Those people still haven't had the ideas of Freedom and Democracy beaten into them yet.

So you can beat "Freedom and Democracy" into a person? Last time I checked, they just got angry and violent.

 

[cgannon64]

Ok Mitsho, I'll take your word for it. But since I started talking to Europeans regularly here at CFC, Ive gotten used to Europeans foaming at the mouth about the 'evil' U.S., practically out of control, and then ending their post with 'I really love America!'.

They still know we could beat 'em up.

 

[nonconformist]

They still know we could beat 'em up.

When a bully threatens you will violence, confuse him with intelligence then trip him over.

(Disclaimer: does not work on non-metaphorical bullies).

 

[Grisu]

Switserland should just do the same.

if we did that the US would propably tell us to shut our mouth, i mean who does this tiny country think it is to dare critizise the US?

actually, I agree with most of the findings of this article, but i still find it kinda funny for the US to release such Human Rights ratings. Did they rate themselves as well? I'd be very interested in seeing that....

 

[IglooDame]

When a bully threatens you will violence, confuse him with intelligence then trip him over.

(Disclaimer: does not work on non-metaphorical bullies).

When a bully threatens you with violence, do whatever you need to do to defuse the situation, then later hunt the bully down and put a long-range sniper shot into his skull.

I suppose that doesn't translate well back into metaphor, either...

 

[punkbass2000]

You people suck at metaphors

When your enemy attacks with flames, defend with ice.