American vassals

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Oct 29, 2005
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Dynamic civ names are, hands down, one of my favorite parts of RFC. I would like to propose some expansion to the current system that wouldn't require any massive shifts in code or programming

First, I'd like to offer suggestions for American vassals. I incorporated a couple of different styles here. The default vassal name is "State of X", which in this case is used mostly for most European countries, as well as extant Middle Eastern countries like Turkey, Egypt and Persia. For particularly large and diverse Asian countries such as Russia, China, Mongolia and India, I've made it plural. Civs that do not easily correlate to modern nations (or, like Scandinavia, incorporate multiple nations) are Commonwealths.

Now here's where I expect to run into the most trouble: the unique names. I'm particularly fond of Republic of Yucatan, as it was a Mayan-based separatist state from Mexico in the mid-19th century that Congress actually considered adding as a state. Occupied Japan was the cleanest ("American-Occupied Japan" looks rough to me, and they've never been occupied by anyone else) and American Zone of Occupied Germany looks good. If Iraqi Interim Government is rejected because technically Babylon =/= Iraq, Coalition Provisional Authority would be a good alternative.

I had to stretch a little for the Aztec, although Republic of the Rio Grande works too. Mali as Liberia and Khmer as South Vietnam reflect the powerful influence the United States exerted on both countries. I expect to catch much flak for the CENTCOM, SOUTHCOM and AFRICOM ones but CENTCOM is a far less contentious term than "American Saudi Arabia" or something, Ethiopia actually discussed with the United States setting up AFRICOM HQ in Addis Ababa, and Inca's UHV wants them to own most of South America anyways.

  • Arabia: United States Central Command
  • Aztec: State of Mexico OR Republic of Texas
  • Babylonia: Iraqi Interim Government
  • Carthage: Commonwealth of the Barbary Coast
  • China: States of China
  • Egypt: State of Egypt
  • England: State of Great Britain
  • Ethiopia: United States African Command
  • France: State of France
  • Germany: American Zone of Occupied Germany
  • Greece: State of Greece
  • Inca: United States Southern Command
  • India: States of India
  • Japan: Occupied Japan
  • Khmer: Republic of Vietnam
  • Mali: Republic of Liberia
  • Maya: Republic of Yucatán
  • Mongolia: States of Mongolia
  • Netherlands: State of the Netherlands
  • Persia: State of Iran
  • Portugal: State of Portugal
  • Rome: State of Italy
  • Russia: States of Russia
  • Spain: State of Spain
  • Turkey: State of Turkey
  • Vikings: Commonwealth of Scandinavia

There's one other change I'd like to propose to existing vassal names.
  • Late German vassals: Reichskommissariat Amerika and Reichskommissariat Großbritannien replace German America and Reichskommissariat England.

Thoughts?
 
I like them!

That's not how it's like in real-life (the United States Commands don't control the countries in real-life, but they do operate in those areas), but I still think it's cool you put them in the game. You should come up with more names if you have the time.

Good job! :)
 
I like that !!! :)

The problem is, Civs like Maya or Mali use generic vassal name and somebody who understand how had to thrown that generic name away so we can edit it like we edit name for civs like German England or France..
 
these are all nice ideas, if you have any more make sure you post them to this thread in which the dynamic names are being improved. i'm sure they are happy to get any suggestions.
 
Isn't that mod only changing the current editable dynamic names into their native language names?
AFAIK it does not improving like destroying the usage of generic names for Maya Mali etc, or changing the names based on year or capital location, or else, right?
CMIIW :)
 
that's not what airstrip one suggests :D
 
Yeah okay, except that Airstrip One :D

What I really mean is..
That mod trying to edit what can be edited without using any additional code, into their native language, like rather having Greek Empire they could have some name that's more native to their culture, at Greek language...

IMO, OP is trying to make like for example, Republic of Yucatan for Maya, or Republic of Liberia for Mali.. which is IMHO quite impossible to be edited, except if the code is tweaked, since they use the generic vassal etc name...
 
That modmod's pretty awesome, but it's different than what I'm trying to do here, which is fill in the gaps in the existing dynamic name system vis-a-vis vassals.

I was thinking about doing Japan and the Netherlands next. What other countries are in dire need of their own set of dynamic vassal names?
 
yes. that's what I thought.. different kind of mod..
I don't really into the native names as well :p

I guess..
MALI

Yeah.. this 'leftover' in the western part of Africa..

Netherland and Japan is good as well :)
 
Netherlands(Most of them are in Dutch)
America: New Netherlands
Aztecs: Grondgebied van Mexico
Mayans: Grondgebied van de Yucatan
Incans: Grondgebied van Peru
Mali: Dutch West Africa
Ethiopia: Dutch East Africa
Carthage: Dutch North Africa
Egypt: Grondgebied van Egypt
Phoenicia: Grondgebied van Libanon
Arabia: Grondgebied van Arabië
Babylonia: Grondgebied van Mesopotamië
Turkey: Grondgebied van Turkije
Persia: Grondgebied van Perzië
India: Grondgebied van India
Khmer: Dutch East Indies (a stretch, but It'll work)
China: Grondgebied van China
Mongolia: Grondgebied van Mongolië
Japan: Grondgebied van Japan
Russia: Grondgebied van Rusland
Scandinavia: Grondgebied van Scandinavië
Germany: Grondgebied van Duitsland
Netherlands: Grondgebied van Holland
France: Grondgebied van België
Spain: Dutch Iberia
Portugal: Grondgebied van Portugal
Rome: Grondgebied van Rome
Italy: Grondgebied van Italië
Greece: Grondgebied van Griekenland
Byzantium: Grondgebied van Roemenië
Britain: Grondgebied van Groot-Brittannië

Japan
America: Prefectures of America
Aztecs: Prefecture of Mexico
Mayans: Prefecture of the Yucatan
Incans: Prefecture of Peru
Mali: Japanese West Africa
Ethiopia: Japanese East Africa
Carthage: Japanese North Africa
Egypt: Prefecture of Egypt
Phoenicia: Prefecture of Lebanon
Arabia: Prefecture of Arabia
Babylonia: Prefecture of Babylon
Turkey: Prefecture of Turkey
Persia: Prefecture of Persia
India: Prefecture of India
Khmer: Territory of Thailand
China: Manchukuo
Mongolia: Prefecture of Mongolia
Japan: Prefecture of Hokkaido
Russia: Prefecture of Russia
Scandinavia: Prefecture of Sweden
Germany: Prefecture of Germany
Netherlands: Prefecture of the Netherlands
France: Prefecture of France
Spain: Prefecture of Spain
Portugal: Prefecture of Portugal
Rome/Italy: Prefecture of Italy
Greece: Prefecture of Greece
Byzantium: Prefecture of Romania
Britain: Prefecture of Britain
 
Netherlands(Most of them are in Dutch)
America: New Netherlands
Aztecs: Grondgebied van Mexico
Mayans: Grondgebied van de Yucatan
Incans: Grondgebied van Peru
Mali: Dutch West Africa
Ethiopia: Dutch East Africa
Carthage: Dutch North Africa
Egypt: Grondgebied van Egypt
Phoenicia: Grondgebied van Libanon
Arabia: Grondgebied van Arabië
Babylonia: Grondgebied van Mesopotamië
Turkey: Grondgebied van Turkije
Persia: Grondgebied van Perzië
India: Grondgebied van India
Khmer: Dutch East Indies (a stretch, but It'll work)
China: Grondgebied van China
Mongolia: Grondgebied van Mongolië
Japan: Grondgebied van Japan
Russia: Grondgebied van Rusland
Scandinavia: Grondgebied van Scandinavië
Germany: Grondgebied van Duitsland
Netherlands: Grondgebied van Holland
France: Grondgebied van België
Spain: Dutch Iberia
Portugal: Grondgebied van Portugal
Rome: Grondgebied van Rome
Italy: Grondgebied van Italië
Greece: Grondgebied van Griekenland
Byzantium: Grondgebied van Roemenië
Britain: Grondgebied van Groot-Brittannië

Japan
America: Prefectures of America
Aztecs: Prefecture of Mexico
Mayans: Prefecture of the Yucatan
Incans: Prefecture of Peru
Mali: Japanese West Africa
Ethiopia: Japanese East Africa
Carthage: Japanese North Africa
Egypt: Prefecture of Egypt
Phoenicia: Prefecture of Lebanon
Arabia: Prefecture of Arabia
Babylonia: Prefecture of Babylon
Turkey: Prefecture of Turkey
Persia: Prefecture of Persia
India: Prefecture of India
Khmer: Territory of Thailand
China: Manchukuo
Mongolia: Prefecture of Mongolia
Japan: Prefecture of Hokkaido
Russia: Prefecture of Russia
Scandinavia: Prefecture of Sweden
Germany: Prefecture of Germany
Netherlands: Prefecture of the Netherlands
France: Prefecture of France
Spain: Prefecture of Spain
Portugal: Prefecture of Portugal
Rome/Italy: Prefecture of Italy
Greece: Prefecture of Greece
Byzantium: Prefecture of Romania
Britain: Prefecture of Britain

Aww man, you pre-empted mine. :(

For the Netherlands:
  • America: New Netherland
  • Arabia: Arabian States-Provincial
  • Aztec: Dutch Mexico
  • Babylonia: Dutch Mesopotamia
  • Carthage: Dutch North Africa
  • China: Chinese States-Provincial
  • Egypt: Egyptian States-Provincial
  • England: British States-Provincial
  • Ethiopia: Dutch East Africa
  • France: French States-Provincial
  • Germany: German States-Provincial
  • Greece: Greek States-Provincial
  • Inca: Dutch Peru
  • India: Dutch India
  • Japan: Dutch Japan
  • Khmer: Dutch East Indies
  • Mali: Dutch Gold Coast
  • Maya: Dutch Yucatan
  • Mongolia: Dutch Mongolia
  • Netherlands: n/a
  • Persia: Dutch Persia
  • Portugal: Portuguese States-Provincial
  • Rome: Italian States-Provincial
  • Russia: Russian States-Provincial
  • Spain: Iberian States-Provincial
  • Turkey: Turkish States-Provincial
  • Vikings: Scandinavian States-Provincial

For Japan:
  • America: Government-General of the United States
  • Arabia: Mecca Prefecture
  • Aztec: Government-General of Mesoamerica
  • Babylonia: Babylon Prefecture
  • Carthage: Tripoli Prefecture
  • China: Reorganized National Government of China
  • Egypt: Cairo Prefecture
  • England: London Prefecture
  • Ethiopia: Addis Ababa Prefecture
  • France: Paris Prefecture
  • Germany: Berlin Prefecture
  • Greece: Athens Prefecture
  • Inca: Government-General of South America
  • India: Dehli Prefecture
  • Japan: N/A
  • Khmer: Japanese Kampuchea
  • Mali: Timbuktu Prefecture
  • Maya: Government-General of Central America
  • Mongolia: Karakorum Prefecture
  • Netherlands: Amsterdam Prefecture
  • Persia: Persepolis Prefecture
  • Portugal: Lisbon Prefecture
  • Rome: Rome Prefecture
  • Russia: Moscow Prefecture
  • Spain: Madrid Prefecture
  • Turkey: Istanbul Prefecture
  • Vikings: Trondheim Prefecture

For Greece: (this needs the most work, although I'm fond of the "Alexandria on the..." template)
  • America: Greek America OR Alexandria on the Mississippi
  • Arabia: Hellenic Arabia
  • Aztec: Greek Mexico OR Alexandria at Texcoco
  • Babylonia: Alexandria on the Euphrates
  • Carthage: Colony of Barca
  • China: Greek China OR Periphery of China OR Alexandria on the Yangtze
  • Egypt: Ptolemaic Egypt
  • England: Periphery of England OR Alexandria on the Thames
  • Ethiopia: Hellenic Abyssinia
  • France: Periphery of France OR Alexandria on the Seine
  • Germany: Periphery of Germany OR Alexandria on the Rhine
  • Greece: N/A
  • Inca: Alexandria in the Andes
  • India: Alexandria on the Indus
  • Japan: Alexandria in Honshu
  • Khmer: Alexandria on the Mekong
  • Mali: Alexandria on the Niger
  • Maya: Alexandria in Yucatan
  • Mongolia: Alexandria in the Steppe
  • Netherlands: Periphery of Holland OR Alexandria on the Amstel
  • Persia: Seleucid Persia
  • Portugal: Periphery of Portugal OR Alexandria on the Tagus
  • Rome: Magna Graecia
  • Russia: Periphery of Russia OR Bosporan Kingdom OR Alexandria on the Moskva OR Alexandria in the Rus
  • Spain: Hellenic Iberia OR Periphery of Iberia OR Alexandria on the Manzaneres
  • Turkey: Colonial Asia Minor OR Kingdom of Pergamon
  • Vikings: Hellenic Scandinavia

The Greek ones need a lot of work, but I think the other two are good to go.
 
Here's a bonus Portuguese vassal list. I'm actually surprised these guys and the Dutch didn't already have one given their colonial histories.
  • America: Portuguese North America
  • Arabia: Captaincy of the Levant
  • Aztec: Council of the Indies
  • Babylonia: Captaincy of Mesopotamia
  • Carthage: Portuguese North Africa
  • China: Captaincy of China
  • Egypt: Captaincy of Egypt
  • England: Captaincy of England
  • Ethiopia: Portuguese East Africa
  • France: Captaincy of France
  • Germany: Captaincy of Germany
  • Greece: Captaincy of Greece
  • Inca: Captaincy of the Andes
  • India: Goa
  • Japan: Portuguese Japan
  • Khmer: Portuguese Indochina
  • Mali: Portuguese West Africa
  • Maya: Portuguese Yucatan
  • Mongolia: Captaincy of Mongolia
  • Netherlands: Portuguese Netherlands
  • Persia: Captaincy of Persia
  • Portugal: N/A
  • Rome: Council of Italia
  • Russia: Captaincy of Russia
  • Spain: Iberian Union OR Councils of Aragon and Castile
  • Turkey: Captaincy of Turkey
  • Vikings: Captaincy of Scandinavia
 
If Iraqi Interim Government is rejected because technically Babylon =/= Iraq, Coalition Provisional Authority would be a good alternative.

Good list, but if you want to get this technical, Rome =/= Italy and Aztec =/= modern Mexico (and while some Nahuan populations were local to the general Texas area, the boundaries of Aztec civilization proper were hundresds of miles away from Texas), but we can still accept these older civs as their decendents here. Using Babylon for Iraq is a greater stretch than these two, but it's doable.

Also, one suggestion I'd make is to change the Vikings' name to Nordic States (or something similar) rather than Commonwealth of Scandinavia, since the semantics of "Scandinavia" suggest only the core countries on the Jutland and Scandinavian peninsulas (Denmark, Norway & Sverige) and not the whole of the Viking countries (Finland, Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, and the colonies in the British Isles, France, Sicily and the Volga or later colonies in New England, Africa and the Carribean).

In the early versions, Scandinavia worked since the Vikings turtled in their core area, but now they branch out and settle Iceland and Canada, so Nordic States seems more accurate and fitting.
 
Good list, but if you want to get this technical, Rome =/= Italy and Aztec =/= modern Mexico (and while some Nahuan populations were local to the general Texas area, the boundaries of Aztec civilization proper were hundresds of miles away from Texas), but we can still accept these older civs as their decendents here. Using Babylon for Iraq is a greater stretch than these two, but it's doable.

Also, one suggestion I'd make is to change the Vikings' name to Nordic States (or something similar) rather than Commonwealth of Scandinavia, since the semantics of "Scandinavia" suggest only the core countries on the Jutland and Scandinavian peninsulas (Denmark, Norway & Sverige) and not the whole of the Viking countries (Finland, Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, and the colonies in the British Isles, France, Sicily and the Volga or later colonies in New England, Africa and the Carribean).

In the early versions, Scandinavia worked since the Vikings turtled in their core area, but now they branch out and settle Iceland and Canada, so Nordic States seems more accurate and fitting.

If these were the civilization's independent names I would be far more strict about technicality. With vassals, the dynamic names are so unrealistic anyways ("Khanate of Yucatan" comes to mind) that I try to just find the nearest acceptable name. Sometimes it works well, like Republic of Yucatan (ethnic Mayans applying for U.S. statehood). Sometimes it doesn't.

In this case, a lot of the civs vassal-default to Mexico (Dominion of Mexico, Protectorate of Mexico, etc.) and Italy (Reichkommissariat Italy, Departments of Italy, etc.) and given that America never historically knew an Aztec Triple Alliance or Roman Empire, it makes even more sense. It's also better to think of them as the geographic locations. It's not a Dominion of the United Mexican States, after all.

Babylon sucked because I noticed the other dynamic vassal names all default to Mesopotamia (except the Caliphate of Irak for Arabia). With the other civs it's acceptable but with America it feels clunky to do "State of Mesopotamia" or "Commonwealth of Mesopotamia" when there's a fitting historical alternative. There's also a precedent for using part of a civ's geographic territory to represent the entire civilization when vassalized: France becomes Brittany and Normandy when vassal of the English and the Vikings, respectively; Maya becomes British Honduras; Russia becomes Reichkommissariat Moskow, etc. Most significantly, America can become the Thirteen Colonies, New France, and the Province of New Mexico when vassalized by England, France and Spain - none of those three locations even overlap geographically. Since "Coalition Provisional Authority" doesn't stray from precedent too much, I figured it'd be acceptable.

Vikings are by far the worst civ for dynamic names, either independent or vassal. I think only one of their independent ones even corresponds to an actual polity. I originally tried "Commonwealth of the Vikings" but it read like "a commonwealth by the Vikings" not "a commonwealth over the Vikings". Additionally, the term "Nordic States" doesn't match most of the areas you described - when was the last time you heard anyone refer to Sicily, Africa, the Volga basin or New England as "Nordic States"? Either way, every other dynamic vassal name for the Vikings refers to them as Scandinavia (or Scandia, or Nordland) except for China's "Tributary Viking States" (which works because the Chinese ones go for cultural identity not nationality) and the generic "Protectorate of the Vikings" (which is ridiculous because it reads like a protectorate owned by the Vikings and not a protectorate over the Vikings).
 
There's a name for Maya when vassalized by Spanish,
Capitanía General de Yucatán
English : Captaincy General of Yucatan

But since Spanish will use prefix- Viceroyalty, and Portuguese use prefix- Captaincy,
I think we can give this name to Portuguese :)
-Rather than Portuguese Maya, IMO :)
 
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