Damien
Emperor
To me ,accomplishments are things that distinguish a civ from another civ.Something a civ can be proud of because it's unique.
Americans ?
- Thread starter Hank
- Start date
JoeM
Imperator
Yeah, but what I'm saying is that every group of people will have something like that. Without being sarcastic, my uncles vilage are proud of the new post office, but no-one else gives a rat's arse about it.
Damien
Emperor
i don't think so...Why shouldn't the Sioux be in the game?They were nomads and did nothing great.
Why should the aemricans be in civ3.
For many reasons;i.e.they stepped on the moon.
JoeM
Imperator
Well I'm not saying the Americans shouldn't, my personal opinion is that the Nations included in Civ is partly based on history (Egypt, Rome, etc.) and partly on selling the damn game (America, England, Germany), for game it is and sold it must be.
But the edges do blur when you start saying Civilisation rather than Nation.
But the edges do blur when you start saying Civilisation rather than Nation.
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Yes I have. It was good for it's time. But I do admit that I haven't played it for years and years! Games move on, and I do nowdays prefer civ3 (more civs + more time periods + larger maps = more historial situations to explore, although with less detail and depth
).Speaking of civilisations, I can see JoeM's point and I do agree.
Historians always speak of the 'Egyptian Civilisation', or the 'Roman Civilisation' when speaking of ancient times, but from the Medieval period onwards they usually refer to the 'French Nation' or 'English Nation' or 'American Nation' and so on. I have never read of the 'Holy Roman Civilisation of Germany' for example. And nowdays the only 'civilisation' that seems to gets mentioned is the so called 'Western Civilisation' while many others are just lumped together into the so called 'Third World'.
Ah!, I think I see the difference. A civilisation is a bunch of people all (roughly) sharing a common social structure/customs/religion/culture/technology, even if they talk a different language. But WITHIN that civilisation, there could be many different NATIONS, all with their own independant governments.
So there is no such thing such as an 'American Civilisation', or an 'English Civilisation', or a 'French Civilisation', because they are just different NATIONS that evolved from the common european feudal CIVILISATION (even though they have different social customs, culture and language).
So instead of 'civilsations' or 'nations', or 'empires', we should be using a more general term, such as 'social groups' (i.e., a group of people that live together and sometimes subjugate or assimilate others).
Damien
Emperor
Hmmm,i disagree.
To me,a civilisation is a group of people sharing the same history n values(a nation) that has made many accomplishments(i.e.to step on the moon).It's a great nation.
Historians don't use civilisation for modern time because this word is more likely to be used for ancient civs(nations).
As for europe,like Julien, you're confusing between civs and what we call a world(i.e.the western world) that is represented by city styles in civ.
As for your definition of what's a nation i don't agree with it.
There aren't 4 nations in Switzerland but 1,yet 4 languages are spoken.
To me,a civilisation is a group of people sharing the same history n values(a nation) that has made many accomplishments(i.e.to step on the moon).It's a great nation.
Historians don't use civilisation for modern time because this word is more likely to be used for ancient civs(nations).
As for europe,like Julien, you're confusing between civs and what we call a world(i.e.the western world) that is represented by city styles in civ.
As for your definition of what's a nation i don't agree with it.
There aren't 4 nations in Switzerland but 1,yet 4 languages are spoken.
kring
Asst Cook & Bottle Washer
Originally posted by DelinquentRock
I must make a point to people who talk of America as a prodomently English people. It was only by 2 vote that English was picked as the national language. Of course German, and French were the runners up, and I think there was one vote for Italian.
PS player2- I think the Chinese are still a great power in our time
America has no official language. That, according to the histories I have read. True, many Americans speak American (aka English). There has been a movement afloat for a while to make English the official language, but I have not read nor heard of it actually being put into law.
The expectation USED to be English was the unofficial language, but anymore that expectation is pretty much dead.
JoeM
Imperator
\Civ`i*li*za"tion\, n. [Cf. F. civilisation.] 1. The act of civilizing, or the state of being civilized; national culture; refinement.
From Websters dictionary.
"Our manners, our civilization, and all the good things connected with manners, and with civilization, have, in this European world of ours, depended for ages upon two principles -- . . . the spirit of a gentleman, and spirit of religion." --Burke
So there you have it. If the nation has good manners, it's a Civilization. Well that puts the French off the list eh Damien?
From Websters dictionary.
"Our manners, our civilization, and all the good things connected with manners, and with civilization, have, in this European world of ours, depended for ages upon two principles -- . . . the spirit of a gentleman, and spirit of religion." --Burke
So there you have it. If the nation has good manners, it's a Civilization. Well that puts the French off the list eh Damien?
Damien
Emperor
That's right.To eat frog thighs,snails or to drink Pastis at 2:00PM sunbathing at the same time don't belong indeed to good manners.
Akka
Moody old mage.
So there you have it. If the nation has good manners, it's a Civilization. Well that puts the French off the list eh Damien?
Well, why ?
We scorn American and hate the British.
Isn't it sufficient to be good-mannered ?
jerosen
Chieftain
I think one of damien's main points was that civilization required writing. Here is a dictionary definition copy / pasted straight off of dictionary.com that supports that...
"civ·i·li·za·tion Pronunciation Key (sv-l-zshn)
n.
1. An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
2. The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
3. The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
4. Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
5. Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. "
Jim
"civ·i·li·za·tion Pronunciation Key (sv-l-zshn)
n.
1. An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
2. The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
3. The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
4. Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
5. Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. "
Jim
JoeM
Imperator
Yeah that was the boring one, which is wwhy I chose WEbster and the Burke quotation - same source: dictionary.com.
Shabbaman
rebuffing the rebels
Originally posted by DaSilva
Tis true! Brechin (pop. 33 people, 4 dogs and 84 sheep) and Elgin (pop. 3 and half people and 4,000,000,000 midgies) are both classed as cities due to their cathedrals.
Better yet, in the Netherlands the local lord/king/bisshop could sell the Right of City, with statement whether a moat or city wall could be constructed. There are quite some cities in the Netherlands with less than 84 sheep.
