An ideal society

[WillJ]

A little while ago, I thought I knew what, IMO, would be an ideal society:

Everyone would be born in similar conditions. Everyone would be guaranteed adequate food, shelter, water, and any necessary health care. Everyone would have the same oppurtunity for success; if someone wanted a certain education or training, they could get it, assuming they qualify. Pretty much everything else (the economy, etc.) would be pretty much the same as it is in America and most other countries today.

Then I realized that, although this seems appealing to me because everyone would have equal oppurtunity, and therefore luck and status-from-birth would almost not exist, some would be born smarter or more talented than others. And how is this any better than some being born into a higher class than others? And those who work harder would get more benefits. While most people think of this as completely fair, thinking of hard work as seperate from luck, wouldn't hard working people have to be lucky that they were born with the trait of tolerating hard work? Of course, I guess this trait of working hard has its negative side (you work hard, duh ), so it might balance out, and therefore it is fair after all.

Then I realized that if there were an "ideal society," what would be left to do? to improve on? to discover? It would seem like quite a boring world.

And now I want to ask: What is your idea of an ideal society? Remember, I mean society; human nature can't be changed.

 

[Perfection]

One where I'm in charge!

 

[gael]

Your a socialist WillJ, everyone equal.
We all want this, but its not human nature.

Democracy, health/education/unemployment welfare.
This is the best system in the world.

I honestly don't think there is such a thing as an ideal society.
Its almost as crazy as thinking human nature is perfect.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by gael
Your a socialist WillJ, everyone equal.
We all want this, but its not human nature.

Democracy, health/education/unemployment welfare.
This is the best system in the world.

I honestly don't think there is such a thing as an ideal society.
Its almost as crazy as thinking human nature is perfect.

Well, I thought in socialism everyone stays relatively equal. In my society everyone is born equal, with equal oppurtunity, that is. However, some people will become more successful and prosperous than others. And of course this can't really be achieved; I just felt like thinking about it.

 

[gael]

Sorry mate, i just lumped you into an 'ism'.

Momentary lapse of reason.

 

[Greadius]

Uhm... not a parent here, but a little down the road...

In theory, my children are the most important thing in the world to me. So I'm going to work as hard as possible to give them every oppertunity to succeed... yet in your 'perfect' society, I'm basically not allowed to do that.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by Greadius
Uhm... not a parent here, but a little down the road...

In theory, my children are the most important thing in the world to me. So I'm going to work as hard as possible to give them every oppertunity to succeed... yet in your 'perfect' society, I'm basically not allowed to do that.

Exactly. I don't think it's fair that your children should get rewarded for being born to you, a successful person, instead of a starving family in Africa. In my society, that's not necessary anyway. If someone has the potential to become a great mathemetician, for example, they could get whatever funding, support, etc. they need; they don't necessarily need help from their parents.

 

[kmad]

I think a society constantly battling for and achieving human rights is better than a society that just starts out with total equality.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by WillJ
I don't think it's fair that your children should get rewarded for being born to you, a successful person, instead of a starving family in Africa.

They're my (potential) kids, mind your own business.

How would you even enforce such? So I draw a six figure salary, but I can't spend any of that money on higher quality education, fostering a learning environment, tutors, educational trips, ect. as it would give my children an unfair advantage? No, I gotta wait for the state to do that for me.

You have to draw the line somewhere between fascilitating oppertunity for all kids, and limiting the oppertunity from some kids.

 

[ozscott75]

An ideal society would be one where:

A student with the intellect but not the money/connections got a place at university before the student with the money/connections but not the intellect.

Hospital beds weren't taken up by people who could afford non-essential surgery while people who can't afford essential surgery die.

People were treated equally, regardless of race, sex or religion.

And a number of other things that I don't expect to see in my lifetime.

 

[Narz]

Ideal world, eh? heh heh

Well, I'd be a king of course. Not ultimate ruler or supreme leader or anything like that, too much responsibility. Just a simple king on a man-made self-sufficient island in between California and Hawaii. About the size of the state of New Jersey with a population of about a hundred thousand.

We'd have all the best farming techniques for maximum output so food would cost next to nothing. Citiizens would be encouraged to travel the world so that overpopulation would not be a problem. Any immigrants would go through and extensive screening process, any hint of nuerotic, stupid or *****y type behavior and then'd be sent back from whence they came.

I would be a computer game designer and city planner, all my work would be creative, my staff would be comprised of the type who loves the actual physical work of building (and the mental work of coding). My days would be spent in creative brainstroming, swimming, taking strolls with my harem girls and learning kung-fu, judo and akido from the resident masters I housed in my palace. It would be a lush world, I would have my own vegtable garden and expert chefs on hand who would teach me the secrets of making delicious sauses for all my foods. I would have my own healthy, happy and robust animals. A couple times a week when I felt like meat I would choose one/some of my animals (a cow, a herd of rabbits, an ostrich they are very tasty) and pet them gently and tell them how lucky they were that they got to become a part of me and my spirit instead of withering into old age and then rotting into the soil to be eaten by bacteria and scavengers.

Of course I couldn't eat a whole cow or slew of rabbits by myself so I'd have a feast with my girls and all my friends.

Now everyone would not be as rich as I but they'd all be as happy, as I said only select people could gain access to the island, people would have to be real laid-back, yet intelligent, ambitous and innovative but not controlling. These rules would apply to myself as well, if I ever became bitter or started to take life for granted I would be stripped of all I had and forced to work out in the fields with the farmer-bots for a week to get my head clear.

It would be a world where everyone took responsibility for him/herself, their own health, happiness and mental well being. Crimes would be very rare, there would be no jails, the punishment for major violations would be banishment.

This would be no socialist paradise, people would still have to work but society would be so efficient that everyone could pursue pretty much what they wanted and therefore not mind "working hard" because they would love their work.

The popularity of the Narzian isles would be so great that people would be applying to become a citizen from all over the world. If a certain need arose in the community (say we needed more carpenters for example) hundreds would flock and apply for "the job".

I'm pretty tired, I'm gonna sleep on this, maybe I'll get further inspirations in my slumber.

- Narz

By the way, you're all invited to chill in my palace. No trolling though or I'll make you wash the harem girls' underpants during their communal "time of the month".

 

[Narz]

I can't say b*tchy? Thats not even a bad word, just means whiny! Kind of what I'm doing right now

 

[philippe]

My perfect world is one where everyone is happy educated and protected against everything and everyone gets the same pay
and everything we need is made by state controlled factories and we can everyone select a spot. i prefer that the society is not run through a leader and offfensive religions are permitted and since humans are so stupid they need something to adore we give them something to adore:a tree in the sky with water around it,showing the 3 parts of the earth.

 

[Hamlet]

If we're going utopian, then I'd go for Plato's ideas in The Republic.

 

[Rodgers]

Never read that one - does it have lots of women with big knockers in it?

 

[thestonesfan]

One thing I believe in, the less perfect a society is, the more FUN it is!

I would get a kick out of living in the "Fallout" world. Me against the world.

As long as I could save and load.

 

[ferenginar]

Don't forget the matrix failed when everything was peachy, we need so **** to fight through, that is what defines us.

ferenginar

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by Greadius
They're my (potential) kids, mind your own business.

How would you even enforce such? So I draw a six figure salary, but I can't spend any of that money on higher quality education, fostering a learning environment, tutors, educational trips, ect. as it would give my children an unfair advantage? No, I gotta wait for the state to do that for me.

You have to draw the line somewhere between fascilitating oppertunity for all kids, and limiting the oppertunity from some kids.

In my "ideal society," no kids' oppurtunities are being limited. Everyone can get any type of education or training they want, and therefore, you wouldn't need to worry about providing your kids with an education. As to how it would be enforced: It wouldn't need to be, since no parent would pay for their child's education when they could have it for free, or if they did, the government would happily take the money. As to how this would be possible: I doubt it is.

 

[Cecasander]

I'm actualy starting to write a story (perhaps it will be a book, depending how long it will be), in which some people are trying to build an ideal society. Kind of 'Brave New World' style, only in a good way. There will be a civ2 scenario too...

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Greadius
They're my (potential) kids, mind your own business.

How would you even enforce such? So I draw a six figure salary, but I can't spend any of that money on higher quality education, fostering a learning environment, tutors, educational trips, ect. as it would give my children an unfair advantage? No, I gotta wait for the state to do that for me.

You have to draw the line somewhere between fascilitating oppertunity for all kids, and limiting the oppertunity from some kids.

I am loathe to say it, WillJ, but Mr Greadius has a good point here!

His hard-earned dough, his hard-earned offspring, his right to give them a good start in life.

I cannot see what is wrong with that.
I would do the same in his shoes.