And Then Ninjas...Thousands of 'Em

[bioelectricclam]

So apparently they are opening up the espionage option by introducing Ninjas as the medieval equivalent of the modern day Spy. But I don't really see the point...nor do I find it historically accurate that every single Civ in the game will be able to train Ninjas. To be frank, they should somehow make Ninjas a Japanese unique unit (screw the rules Japanese kick ass...give 'em 3 UU I say! Their UB is more than crappy enough to compensate...) and come up with a better name for "medieval version of the spy". Here are a few suggestions:

Assassin
Spy (rename Modern period Spy "Secret Agent")
Rogue
Sapper

Any other ideas?

 

[Martinus]

I personally like the Spy -> Secret Agent proposal the most.

 

[Willowmound]

Sapper

Sappers were people who undermined city- and castle walls during seiges. (Literally under-mined -- dug mines under the walls to weaken their foundation. It's where the mordern word 'undermine' comes from.)

...So not the best name for a spy unit.

But I totally agreee that ninjas for everyone is a bit daft.

I like spy cum secret agent.

 

[Virote_Considon]

...or would they be pirate ninjas?...

 

[Willowmound]

A ninja without depth perception (the eyepacth) and a wooden leg? I'd like to see that.

And would the parrot reveal his hiding place? Or would the parrot also be a ninja?

 

[Ramesses 3000]

...or would they be pirate ninjas?...

Pirates and Ninjas are mortal enemies, we both know that. However, I am expecting the Ninja unit to be able to shred on the guitar.

 

[prestermatt]

Given the fact most of the other units in the game are quite Western in character, I have no problem with all civs using ninjas.

With the exception of the UUs, and maybe the horse archers, everything else is based on a Western model. Seeing the Mongols and the Aztecs run around with longbowmen and macemen is always a little strange...

 

[bode404]

It would be too much unrealistic if any civ could have a japanese-looking ninja, so maybe they'll be called ninjas but with a more generic outfit.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I would like:

1.Spy
2.Secret agent

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

They could just have 1 spy unit with era specific graphics like great people and workers.

 

[DrJambo]

spy ---> secret agent is the best nomenclature.

 

[Martinus]

Pirates and Ninjas are mortal enemies, we both know that. However, I am expecting the Ninja unit to be able to shred on the guitar.

Considering they are adding privateers, BtS is clearly the best expansion ever, since it adds both pirates and ninjas.

And we already have zombies as the Persian UU.

 

[bonafide11]

So apparently they are opening up the espionage option by introducing Ninjas as the medieval equivalent of the modern day Spy. But I don't really see the point...nor do I find it historically accurate that every single Civ in the game will be able to train Ninjas. To be frank, they should somehow make Ninjas a Japanese unique unit (screw the rules Japanese kick ass...give 'em 3 UU I say! Their UB is more than crappy enough to compensate...) and come up with a better name for "medieval version of the spy". Here are a few suggestions:

Assassin
Spy (rename Modern period Spy "Secret Agent")
Rogue
Sapper

Any other ideas?

Well, two things. I agree that it's a bit odd to have "ninjas" as a spy for everyone. I mean, ninjas weren't ever spies for the Japanese government even, they were underground assassins. In my opinion, they'd be like the equivalent to modern day gangsters. So I don't think it makes much sense to have them as a spies for everyone...

But this is the first post I've seen saying their building sucks. It's a pretty damn good building, in my opinion...

 

[Mewtarthio]

Ninjas performing government-sanctioned espionage for everyone in the world? What next, every country training its Spies at a "Scotland Yard"?

 

[bioelectricclam]

Sappers were people who undermined city- and castle walls during seiges. (Literally under-mined -- dug mines under the walls to weaken their foundation. It's where the mordern word 'undermine' comes from.)

...So not the best name for a spy unit.

My thinking was that Sappers were responsible for undermining city walls and the like...just as the Civ Spy unit sneaks into enemy cities and blows stuff up.

 

[Hugh Jundies]

Hey! Is this the thread where I overanalyze the historical signifigance of cool new units in the game, like ninjas??

Ninjas = Boatload of awesome.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd really prefer Assassins. Although they are specifically Middle Eastern, the term is less associated with the Middle East than ninjas are with Japan.

 

[bioelectricclam]

But this is the first post I've seen saying their building sucks. It's a pretty damn good building, in my opinion...

The Shale Plant is essentially a modest boost to production late game. If you don't have Coal, then its a nice way to get some power for your cities...but by this time I almost always have a source of coal anyways. The "free power without coal" aspect is about as useful as Monty's "free swordsman without iron".

Now, I'm not arguing that a boost to production is a bad thing, especially for a warmonger, but what IS bad about the Shale Plant is that it is one of the few UB that do not match up with its Civ's UU. By the time you get Shale Plants, Samurai are long obsolete - there's no chance to do a powerful "double whammy" punch of both a UB and a UU at the same time. Very few Civs are stuck in such a situation, and usually the ones that are have a comparatively strong UB or UU to compensate. For example, the Americans get shopping malls fairly early on and navy seals much latter, but both are strong enough to stand alone. By comparison, both the Japanese UU and UB are "average" in power, so they seem fairly weak when you consider the fact that you will only be able to take advantage of one at a time. That's my theory, anywho.

 

[ripple01]

How about Informant for the early spy, and then keep Spy for the later one?

Cheers,
ripple01

 

[andrewlt]

Honestly, even the existence of ninjas themselves is historically shaky.