AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[aggri1]

I've noticed something in the latest SVN version related to Tech Diffusion I think, if you egt too far ahead in Techs, the cost increases? I went on Marathon Speed from researching Techs at an average of 1 ever 6 turns, as soon as I hit Engineering it went to 38 turns?

I think that it depends on who else has the technology already. If several (or at least one?) other civilisation (perhaps only those with whom you've contact?) already has a technology which you're researching, then it'll be quicker for you to research. If you select different technologies on the science advisor screen, you'll see your effective beaker production amount change drastically, depending on how many other civ's have it already. Perhaps no-one else had engineering when you started researching it, while the previous tech's you were researching were already known by someone.

The way tech' diffusion is currently implemented is, in my view, rather confusing. As I wrote elsewhere:

I think I'd prefer that tech' diffusion were implemented similarly to the tech' learning from captured cities: that is, if you're a long way behind, you get some free beakers added each turn to tech's which are known by other civ's with whom you have contact. In this way you'd be able to judge the trades accurately, and you wouldn't have to open the science advisor to see how long a tech' will take to research. This also seems more intuitive to me: my civ' would start learning about the technology through contact with other civ's even if I didn't apply my own scientists to study it.

Cheers!

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Correct but it also depends on Medieval techs being more expensive and this is because Middle Age is the era which has minimum number of techs, so it helps not making that era pass by too quickly. Moreover it's usually the era when you start meeting distant civs so usually techs are getting sped up a lot. Just keep playing and you'll see. Finally I still have to balance Marathon speed.

 

[Arakhor]

I tried a couple of early games on TOm-AND recently and I've noticed that you start to see contact with distant nations almost as soon as Writing rolls around. I'm assuming that's not intended?

(Revision 682 on the SVN, in case you need to know.)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I tried a couple of early games on TOm-AND recently and I've noticed that you start to see contact with distant nations almost as soon as Writing rolls around. I'm assuming that's not intended?

(Revision 682 on the SVN, in case you need to know.)

If you're talking about Embassies, that's intended.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I know your concetrating on the Multiplayer bugs, but I just want to make a note of these before I lose my own notes.

Vassalage - When playing a high to low game, the Human player can become a vassal of an AI, WITHOUT human vassals being enabled. i.e. I can't offer my vassalage to an AI. But when going from High to Low, and the Lowest is a Vassal Civ, you Automatically become a vassal.

Problem here is, that you can make peace seperately from your master, who will continue to be at war with your previous war enemy. You may treat your MASTER as a vassal, and ask them, why don't you attack city A, or city W. Further your constrained by the normal vassalage conditions, so you can't automatically break vassalage if is was given during war, but can break it if its given voluntarily. I've had instances of both, where I could break vassage as a 1 City Civ, and couldn't when I was a 10 City Civ, and increased my Territory, Master was HUGE.

Human shouldn't be allowed to be a vassal, either it automatically breaks, or you can't take that civ as the Lowest scoring civ to raise to top again in High to Low game.

Food Wastage - Why did you remove this from the game, I quite enjoyed the mechanic that stopped the ridicilous growth of cities, it provided more realism to the game. I agree it shouldn't be a fixed option, but it should be an option that you can choose, just as fixed borders is, as an example.

Gold smiths guild - This guild icon in the cities isn't displaying the mouse over display of the production given by this guild.

Gunpowder - The problem here is the link in the Technology map, it isn't clear what are the tech links, with one link going right through gunpowder, without requiring it at all as a pre requisite tech. Its required tech's aren't too clearly labled either, so you can't select the cheaping techs to quicken it up, while gaining other technologies and abilities.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I know your concetrating on the Multiplayer bugs, but I just want to make a note of these before I lose my own notes.

Vassalage - When playing a high to low game, the Human player can become a vassal of an AI, WITHOUT human vassals being enabled. i.e. I can't offer my vassalage to an AI. But when going from High to Low, and the Lowest is a Vassal Civ, you Automatically become a vassal.

Problem here is, that you can make peace seperately from your master, who will continue to be at war with your previous war enemy. You may treat your MASTER as a vassal, and ask them, why don't you attack city A, or city W. Further your constrained by the normal vassalage conditions, so you can't automatically break vassalage if is was given during war, but can break it if its given voluntarily. I've had instances of both, where I could break vassage as a 1 City Civ, and couldn't when I was a 10 City Civ, and increased my Territory, Master was HUGE.

Human shouldn't be allowed to be a vassal, either it automatically breaks, or you can't take that civ as the Lowest scoring civ to raise to top again in High to Low game.

Food Wastage - Why did you remove this from the game, I quite enjoyed the mechanic that stopped the ridicilous growth of cities, it provided more realism to the game. I agree it shouldn't be a fixed option, but it should be an option that you can choose, just as fixed borders is, as an example.

Gold smiths guild - This guild icon in the cities isn't displaying the mouse over display of the production given by this guild.

Gunpowder - The problem here is the link in the Technology map, it isn't clear what are the tech links, with one link going right through gunpowder, without requiring it at all as a pre requisite tech. Its required tech's aren't too clearly labled either, so you can't select the cheaping techs to quicken it up, while gaining other technologies and abilities.

Thank you IPEX, you're right about Vassals and I think I can fix it easily enough. About Food Waste I don't remember changing anything lately but I'll have a look. I'll also see that guild problem. As for tech tree I don't remember and I can't check it right now, but that's more Vokarya's playground so I hope he can have a look.

 

[chrisj8804]

Not a bug, it's an effect of Tech Diffusion as it's been already exaplained in many posts. It simply means that you're too far behind in techs in comparison to other civs, hence you get a boost for techs already discovered by other civs. Same applies if other AI civs are too far behind in comparison to you: they get the help to keep your pace. It's made to help other civs not to fall behind of 1 era or 2 in compartison with you, but of course it works the same way for you if you're the one falling behind. It will be tweaked a bit to make AI and human players get different help but right now this is the only way to make AI not fall behind and make the game more balanced.

Edit: one more thing, game isn't balanced at all for gamespeed slower than Blitz and Quick. I'm working on it but that's the reason why you get this kind of extreme behaviour. By the way, are you using the latest revision or an older one? Some revision ago the effect has been tuned down already. You can see that depending on the tech you're researching you're producing 12 or more than 500 , that explains different number of turns needed to research a tech.

Is the game literally not balanced at all for speeds lower than quick? Or is it just tech diffusion that isn't balanced at the slower speeds? I'm just coming back to Civ IV after trying Civ V for so long and giving up on it and loved Aforess' AND so I thought I'd give yours a shot too. I always play on marathon because I want units and buildings to actually have a chance to be useful before they are obsoleted by newer versions. If it's only balanced for quick, I'll give it a shot but I doubt I'll be able to stick with it.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Is the game literally not balanced at all for speeds lower than quick? Or is it just tech diffusion that isn't balanced at the slower speeds? I'm just coming back to Civ IV after trying Civ V for so long and giving up on it and loved Aforess' AND so I thought I'd give yours a shot too. I always play on marathon because I want units and buildings to actually have a chance to be useful before they are obsoleted by newer versions. If it's only balanced for quick, I'll give it a shot but I doubt I'll be able to stick with it.

You can try it and see yourself. Game isn't balanced properly but still totally playable and enjoyable. And balancing depends on mapsize and difficulty, not just gamespeed. The most you get far from blitz or quick + large and noble, the less you'll find it balanced.

Edit: anyway it's not balanced YET for other speeds.

 

[Vokarya]

I don't see any problems with Gunpowder on the tech tree. There is an inbound link from Education and then outgoing links to Matchlock, Metallurgy, and Leadership. Unlike the regular BTS tree, only OR prerequisites are shown as arrows (otherwise the tree would look very crowded), but you can get only one arrow by choosing only one OR prerequisite, which becomes an effective AND prerequisite. Maybe you're thinking of a different tech?

View attachment 372499

 

[Zorn]

I am playing on snail, and I have not discovered any imbalance that I would deduce to speed.

 

[aggri1]

I've been playing on Epic. Tech' diffusion is pretty serious: I often see speed-ups of about 5x to 7x during the medieval and renaissance periods, when enough other Civ's have the tech'. Early on in the game, I often saw my 9 beakers multiplied to over 150. I've not yet made it to the industrial period unfortunately (Khan's stack of 219+ Grenadiers appearing in the West was too much while I was dealing with a stack of ~100 in the East, with my rather smaller army. I just don't know how he was supporting so many units and still being the tech' leader).

I was playing on a standard-sized PerfectMongoose map which was about one-third ice/tundra (because I made it have a very small ocean area (lakes, really); this seems to promote cold terrain). Anyway, so there weren't huge areas of good land.

Anyway, the point is that I didn't notice any very drastic imbalances.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Sorry about gunpowder, I had a look and its the same, I can't think of what I was thinking. I'm sure it was a gun tech, but they all seem fine.

 

[Arakhor]

The text for changing Great Generals into unit commanders says "it's abilites". It should be "its abilities".

 

[dbkblk]

A small glitch : When discovering the wheel, the icon for "Cart Path" show no tooltip ! Is this intended ?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

A small glitch : When discovering the wheel, the icon for "Cart Path" show no tooltip ! Is this intended ?

I don't think so.

The text for changing Great Generals into unit commanders says "it's abilites". It should be "its abilities".

Noted, I'll correct it, thank you.

 

[sadris]

So there is an issue with Sydney Opera House wonder: it requires 5 Theaters, but by the time you can build the Opera House, you have Movie Theaters, so you can no longer build Theaters, only movie theaters.

 

[Vokarya]

So there is an issue with Sydney Opera House wonder: it requires 5 Theaters, but by the time you can build the Opera House, you have Movie Theaters, so you can no longer build Theaters, only movie theaters.

I'd like to retool that into an actual World Wonder, not the generic National Wonder it is right now. For now, I think we should delete the Theatre requirement and increase the number of Opera Houses required.

 

[sadris]

Getting a lot of error popups with SVN build from 2014-03-25 on startup:

"Tag: BONUS_SYNTHETIC_RUBBER in Info class was incorrect
Current XML file is: xml\Units/CIV4UnitInfos.xml"

and also these tags:
BONUS_BIOFUEL
TECH_MOUNTED_ARCHERY

UNIT_GATLING_GUN in xml\Civilizations/CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml
UNIT_MINIGUN

 

[oldnooob]

Those same popups are also in the non svn download issued today. I wonder how I can get the missing files without svn?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I know, that was a faulty revision, the latest SVN is working now and I think the new Full Installer has been updated also: the Full Installer is being updated automatically once per day to the latest revision but I don't have a clue when the updating process occurs. Chances are very good that if you download the Full Installer again, it will work as I have committed the last changes almost 24 hours ago.