AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[walkerjonny]

Units costs have been increased 3x, yes. Buildings are not affected.

All Units costs from the beginning of the game or accordingly increased from 1x in the stone age to 3x in the modern era?
Because increasing the unit costs in the early game that much makes it nearly impossible to survive in my opinion.
You can't build enough units to both explore the world and protect yourself, especially against the barbarians.
3x in the modern era is still quite much but I can live with it with a little stomachache. 2x would have been perfect, but 3x can still be handled in the modern era.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

All Units costs from the beginning of the game or accordingly increased from 1x in the stone age to 3x in the modern era?
Because increasing the unit costs in the early game that much makes it nearly impossible to survive in my opinion.
You can't build enough units to both explore the world and protect yourself, especially against the barbarians.
3x in the modern era is still quite much but I can live with it with a little stomachache. 2x would have been perfect, but 3x can still be handled in the modern era.

All units costs have been increased. For both humans and AI, so it will not be more difficult. While before you needed say 6 units to protect your city, now you only need 2. Because while before 6 units might have attacked you, now less units will. There are people building 6 units per turn in modern era, that's definitely too much. We were considering an even higher multiplier but I think 3x is enough. Also barbarians activity will be increased in next revision but only with Raging Barbarians.

 

[walkerjonny]

All units costs have been increased. For both humans and AI, so it will not be more difficult. While before you needed say 6 units to protect your city, now you only need 2. Because while before 6 units might have attacked you, now less units will. There are people building 6 units per turn in modern era, that's definitely too much. We were considering an even higher multiplier but I think 3x is enough. Also barbarians activity will be increased in next revision but only with Raging Barbarians.

You're saying 2 units to protect my city are now enough. Does this include the barbarians, too?
Does that mean that the Barbarin activities have been decreased accordingly to increasing the unit production costs?
Especially in the early game the Barbarians also liked to pillage quite much. To protect your land field improvements around your cities you had to wipe them out quite fast before they were able to pillage them.
And to wipe them out without loosing too much of your own units you needed some archer units to range attack the barbarians first and then you normally were save to attack them without loosing your units.
It is not only about having some units to protect your cities themselves. The surrounding land fields, especially those with improvements on them, also need protection or the drawback will be to expensive over time.
At the moment it can happen that the defending boost because of the land fields defense bonus for a unit is that high that it is able to defend itself even against a next generation unit attacking it.
And because of that fact.you need more attacking units in the right combination to wipe out the defending unit without loosing your own units. This applies to attacking the Barbarians that have entered your own territory, too.
So if you're increasing the unit costs that much you also have to decrease the Barbarian activities accordingly or the game play itself falls out of the proper balance.
And I can tell you for myself: For me it decreases the fun a lot if I have to wait about 30 to 60 rounds instead of 10 to 20 rounds in the early game to produce a single warrior! That is way too long.
But I'm also with you guys when it comes to the modern era. The unit costs here should be increased as you did.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Which mapscript and gamespeed are you using? No way I ever had so much troubles with barbarians in any game I've played. They hardly attack any city in my games and I always use Raging Barbarians. Which barb related options are you using?

 

[walkerjonny]

I'm playing on a Gigantic map that was created using the RoM Planet Generator 0.68 (maybe the greatest map of all with override) and game speed Eternity (4800 Rounds).
Also I don't think that I have selected Raging Barbarians, but honestly I don't find that setting at the moment within the game. Also the other Barbarian related settings should be mostly the default settings
Maybe you are developing AND2 for smaller maps and faster game play...
Well, it is ok for me to wait about 10 to 20 rounds to get a new unit at the early game. But it shouldn't be much longer.
But in the modern era where I'm playing at the moment it took just about 3 to 4 rounds to build a heavy tank or a helicopter in the very productive cities before you did the unit cost changes. Now takes between 9 ant 12 rounds in those cities wich I consider ok compared to the warrior production speed I had in the stone age.
If the unit production speed stays throughout all eras around 10 to 15 rounds for the heavier units within the most productive cities at this game speed I'm fine. That is where it should be usually at this game speed.
That is what I suggest - to keep the unit production speed nearly equal throughout the eras by accordingly increasing the unit production costs to match that goal. And for the modern era it means really an increase of about 3x - but not for the stone age.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Raging Barbarians is an option you select before starting the game, if it's On you can see it in the settings page, clicking in game on the icon with the red fist. I've actually increased Barbarian spawn rate if Raging Barbarians is On and it still looks pretty good without too many problems up to Marathon (not yet released this change); I'm using the same mapscript and more than gigantic map, I've used the override to create a map larger than gigantic. I don't think it should make any difference for Snail or Eternity, everything is scaled accordingly. Are you maybe using Barbarian World option? Or have you reduced the number of Starting civs? Are you playing without Revolutions? Those might explain your problems with barbarians because as I've said, they're usually pretty weak.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

SVN 1053 - Solar plant - Needs desert tile in city bounds.

Small bug, it will replace Coal, Oil, Hydro and Nuclear plants. (Note same on Nuclear power plant replacement, and Hydro replacement)

But if you have say a coal plant in the city, it won't list it as being replaced.
If you have a Hydro plant, the Hydro plant wont' be listed then.
Etc for nuclear/oil plants.

2nd bug on this, if you build the 3 gorges dam for the continent, Solar plant still comes up as an available build, even though it won't replace the 3 Gorges dam wonder.

On the 3 Gorges dam, when you build this wonder, all the cities on the continent, still retain their Coal, Oil, Nuclear and Hydro plants with any associated for having that power plant.

Building the 3 Gorges dam should REMOVE these building from the city, and only provide power, with its associated for having power.

2nd Bug Geothermal event not replacing power plants.

I received the Geothermal event, on a 1 city Island, I took the power option, but it hasn't replaced the Coal plant, only the -4 from having power from coal. I still have the option to build a nuclear plant, and by default a hydro if I had a river, and solar if I had a desert tile.

This event SHOULD remove all power options, and building built, as its been replaced by 'green' and 'clean' geothermal power.

 

[Vokarya]

SVN 1053 - Solar plant - Needs desert tile in city bounds.

Small bug, it will replace Coal, Oil, Hydro and Nuclear plants. (Note same on Nuclear power plant replacement, and Hydro replacement)

But if you have say a coal plant in the city, it won't list it as being replaced.
If you have a Hydro plant, the Hydro plant wont' be listed then.
Etc for nuclear/oil plants.

That is weird behavior on the power plants, but the "Actual Effects" text works out. The benefit from upgrading from a fossil fuel plant to any other plant is reflected in the health bonus, both removing the -4 health from dirty power and the -2 health from a Coal Plant.

The rest of the issues with alternate power sources is not something I can do anything about.

 

[walkerjonny]

Raging Barbarians is an option you select before starting the game, if it's On you can see it in the settings page, clicking in game on the icon with the red fist. I've actually increased Barbarian spawn rate if Raging Barbarians is On and it still looks pretty good without too many problems up to Marathon (not yet released this change); I'm using the same mapscript and more than gigantic map, I've used the override to create a map larger than gigantic. I don't think it should make any difference for Snail or Eternity, everything is scaled accordingly. Are you maybe using Barbarian World option? Or have you reduced the number of Starting civs? Are you playing without Revolutions? Those might explain your problems with barbarians because as I've said, they're usually pretty weak.

Well, it looks like I'm playing without Revolutions but I also haven't selected the 'Barbarian World' option. And I also haven't reduced the starting civics. There were about 25 civics on game start I think.
Where can I activate the Revolutions option? I have just tried to set up a new game but there was no setting for the Revolutions option.
I have also checked the Custom Game settings but there also seems not to be a Revolutions option.
I just had a look into the Revolutions.ini now and there are a lot of settings that are set in the game. I think they are on the AND page. Raging Barbarians is not active.
I'm wondering now why the game tells me on the Settings page "No Revolutions"...

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm wondering now why the game tells me on the Settings page "No Revolutions"...

There is no "Revolutions" option but there is a "No Revolutions" option
Make sure that it is unchecked when you start a new game.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Well, it looks like I'm playing without Revolutions but I also haven't selected the 'Barbarian World' option. And I also haven't reduced the starting civics. There were about 25 civics on game start I think.
Where can I activate the Revolutions option? I have just tried to set up a new game but there was no setting for the Revolutions option.
I have also checked the Custom Game settings but there also seems not to be a Revolutions option.
I just had a look into the Revolutions.ini now and there are a lot of settings that are set in the game. I think they are on the AND page. Raging Barbarians is not active.
I'm wondering now why the game tells me on the Settings page "No Revolutions"...

If No Revolution is checked, that might partially explain your problem with barbarians. Barbarians are spawned in fog of war covered areas. If there are too few civs, which happens on gigantic maps especially when you don't use Revolutions and play very slow gamespeeds, or if you lower the number of starting civs, more barbarians are spawned in the dark lands. Problem is that for the game to be properly balanced you need a certain amount of civs for each map size. I suggest you try playing with Revolution, which by the way is much more fun IMHO. I think you just need to find a good strategy and get used to the changes.
On the other hand, I'd like to hear if someone else is experiencing difficulties in facing barbarians especially at the start of the game or with very slow gamespeeds.

 

[<Nexus>]

I suggest you try playing with Revolution, which by the way is much more fun IMHO.

And Barbarian Civs too

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

And Barbarian Civs too

True, in this case there's a lot of settings about barbarian civs that you can set under BUG options.

 

[walkerjonny]

True, in this case there's a lot of settings about barbarian civs that you can set under BUG options.

Well, those settings I'm familiar with, but I still haven't found the place where to activate the Revolutions option. I have checked every tab within the BUG options but had no luck so far.
Please can you help me out there?

 

[Vokarya]

Well, those settings I'm familiar with, but I still haven't found the place where to activate the Revolutions option. I have checked every tab within the BUG options but had no luck so far.
Please can you help me out there?

Revolutions is a "Custom Game" option, not a BUG option. It can only be turned on or off at the beginning of a game. The box is marked "No Revolutions", so checking it plays without Revolutions, while unchecking it means that component is turned on.

 

[walkerjonny]

Revolutions is a "Custom Game" option, not a BUG option. It can only be turned on or off at the beginning of a game. The box is marked "No Revolutions", so checking it plays without Revolutions, while unchecking it means that component is turned on.

Thank you very much!
Now I have found that setting.
I'll turn it on for the next game.

 

[rtt4a]

@45°38'N-13°47'E

Any news about that re-calc (ctrl+shift+T) bug? Does it still mesh up building out puts? I mean can I use re-calc on game without some game breaking odditys..?

Planning to start eternity/huge game with latest rev to try out those new unit costs. Have to say that over 1200% with eternity sounds a lot, early game warriors can take tens of turns with these values..

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@45°38'N-13°47'E

Any news about that re-calc (ctrl+shift+T) bug? Does it still mesh up building out puts? I mean can I use re-calc on game without some game breaking odditys..?

Planning to start eternity/huge game with latest rev to try out those new unit costs. Have to say that over 1200% with eternity sounds a lot, early game warriors can take tens of turns with these values..

Sorry no, I still don't know what's causing the recalc problem. Too many factors to check, but of course I still want to fix it. As for the production factor, let me know once you try. Strategy had changed a lot, now everyone should be careful about is really necessary to build in a city.

 

[rtt4a]

Sorry no, I still don't know what's causing the recalc problem. Too many factors to check, but of course I still want to fix it. As for the production factor, let me know once you try. Strategy had changed a lot, now everyone should be careful about is really necessary to build in a city.

Yes I will report how the game goes Im worried that recalc thing because I have had many times that bug where lost/razed city resources are still available and recalc was the only way to fix that. Any change that there is progres with that..? I havent played for some time now due to work situation so dont know if this bug even still exist?

Hope you eventually found solutions or maybe we can even hope that Affores is still watching over and comes with council Or is it possible that C2C team could help you out, there is still much same foundation in mods right..?

 

[walkerjonny]

@45°38'N-13°47'E

Any news about that re-calc (ctrl+shift+T) bug? Does it still mesh up building out puts? I mean can I use re-calc on game without some game breaking odditys..?

Planning to start eternity/huge game with latest rev to try out those new unit costs. Have to say that over 1200% with eternity sounds a lot, early game warriors can take tens of turns with these values..

As I said earlier it should now take at least 30 and up to 60 turns to build a single Warrior which in my opinion takes way too long at eternity speed.
But at the modern era building a helicopter or a heavy tank took somewhat between 3 to 5 rounds usually which is quite short at eternity speed
As I told accordingly changed unit building costs throughout the eras to keep the building time somewhat between maybe 8 to 15 or 10 to 20 rounds for heavier units at eternity speed would have been the best but that is also the most complicated way because then you have to touch every unit to change its building costs while you have to keep in mind which buildings are increasing the hammer output at that time.
And increasing the unit building costs also increases the gold cost for buying a unit. At the moment the costs are about 3x as high as before. I don't know if that was intended to happen, too.
It seems also a bit odd that buying a heavy tank or a helicopter is now as expensive as buying a sky scraper...