Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran

[Takhisis]

Am I the only one who has recognised the OP's avatar as HIH Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? Whatever else, I am almost sure that he is not a supporter of the Islamic Republic.

 

[inthesomeday]

Am I the only one who has recognised the OP's avatar as HIH Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? Whatever else, I am almost sure that he is not a supporter of the Islamic Republic.

Always figured it was a sort of tongue in cheek thing... cake had Malcolm for a while, and then when asked about it he basically said Malcolm was a fascist strongman

 

[Hamid.H]

why would it be tongue in cheek? perhaps now some individuals here would be better able to understand why accusing me of being a jihadist is not only islamophobic, but is also ridiculous.

hh

 

[Lexicus]

Am I the only one who has recognised the OP's avatar as HIH Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? Whatever else, I am almost sure that he is not a supporter of the Islamic Republic.

You were not. Actually that recognition was why I initially thought HH must be a pro-Trump troll. (To be clear I no longer think that).

why would it be tongue in cheek? perhaps now some individuals here would be better able to understand why accusing me of being a jihadist is not only islamophobic, but is also ridiculous.

Well, probably because you present as someone interested in social justice and the Shah represents...pretty much the opposite of social justice. He was a Western (or specifically American) puppet whose regime remains a byword for ineptitude, corruption and brutality, and commonly regarded by the American left as a symbol of the evil of American imperialism.

 

[Hamid.H]

Well, probably because you present as someone interested in social justice and the Shah represents...pretty much the opposite of social justice. He was a Western (or specifically American) puppet whose regime remains a byword for ineptitude, corruption and brutality, and commonly regarded by the American left as a symbol of the evil of American imperialism.

his father was forced to abdicate the throne during the us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets, and iran dont you? this invasion was an absolute disaster for iran that no one wanted to repeat.

i also take it you know nothing of the white revolution (aka the bloodless revolution). the shah launched a series of wide-spread reforms designed to weaken the traditional elitist factions that supported the old system. were talking things such as industrialization, the eradication of malaria, allowing women to vote, nationalization of forests and pastures, improvement of the education system, formation of literacy and health corps for rural isolated areas, profit sharing schemes for workers, and other means to reduce the influence of landlords to further support the working class.

in 1963 he called a national referendum in which 5,598,711 people voted for the reforms, and 4,115 voted against the reforms.

these liberal reforms were opposed by the religious class, scholars, and radical leftists as the white revolution was designed to prevent a red revolution. needless to say the radical leftists and religious fanatics gave us the iran we have today when they overthrew the shah.

hh

 

[brennan]

his father was forced to abdicate the throne during the us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets, and iran dont you?

It doesn't really affect your point, but you might wanna check your history regarding who was involved.

 

[Hamid.H]

It doesn't really affect your point, but you might wanna check your history regarding who was involved.

can you just simply state what youre driving at rather than making everyone guess?

hh

 

[brennan]

Hint: it's called the Anglo-Soviet invasion on wiki.

 

[Hamid.H]

Hint: it's called the Anglo-Soviet invasion on wiki.

and did i not already say that?

hh

 

[brennan]

"us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets"

 

[Hamid.H]

"us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets"

heh, i see now. i had thought i said anglo-soviet. was just talking about american imperialism and wwii allies before that and mixed them up. wwii anglos/americans same power block and same banking system which is basically what wwii was over.

hh

 

[brennan]

...same power block and same banking system which is basically what wwii was over.

hh

Maybe that's what people think over there, over here we think of it more as an existential struggle against a genocidal ideology.

 

[Hamid.H]

Maybe that's what people think over there, over here we think of it more as an existential struggle against a genocidal ideology.

well i mean its probably no coincidence that the war started not long after hitler took control of germanys banking system and similarly iran was invaded not long after reza shah took back control of irans monetary system and the right to print money was moved from the british imperial bank to the national bank-i melli iran. and we all know the interests that run the european and american central banks post-wwii, bibi would be familiar with many of them.

hh

 

[EnglishEdward]

I'm curious how much of the space program manufacturing is done in illegal settlements or on occupied territory. Maybe none; it might be considered a security risk..

Well according to:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47914100

The Beresheet scientists have not specified the faulty component,
but during the descent the spacecraft's inertial measurement unit reset -
this assesses the orientation and velocity of the probe.

This early investigation does suggest that the main engine,
which had been built in Britain, was not the primary source of the failure.

 

[brennan]

well i mean its probably no coincidence that the war started not long after hitler took control of germanys banking system and similarly iran was invaded not long after reza shah took back control of irans monetary system and the right to print money was moved from the british imperial bank to the national bank-i melli iran. and we all know the interests that run the european and american central banks post-wwii, bibi would be familiar with many of them.

hh

It probably was a coincidence, given that the actual reason was about access to oilfields and logistics between the allies. Who on Earth told you this was about banking? Banking apparently being a euphemism here.

 

[Hamid.H]

It probably was a coincidence, given that the actual reason was about access to oilfields and logistics between the allies. Who on Earth told you this was about banking? Banking apparently being a euphemism here.

iran was neutral during wwii. it was an illegal and unnecessary invasion. the oilfields were just further pillaging by the british. they sure were quick to take back control of that banking though. also, its not like the current tensions between usa/uk and russia/china isnt at all about the russian/chinese parallel banking system

you realize who churchills financiers were dont you? the ones who purchased all of his debt and relaunched his political career? if it wasnt for the soviets the man would have single handily destroyed england. heck, he destroyed the empire.

hh

 

[brennan]

You're not going to allow Churchill and Stalin the benefit of the doubt in wanting to secure oilfields (even "illegally" - an odd notion to extend back to 1941) while Nazi Germany was occupying Western Europe and advancing towards Moscow? There's no possibility that he and Stalin might have been genuinely concerned that they might lose the war (and in the case of Russia suffer wholesale extermination)?

we all know the interests that run the european and american central banks post-wwii

Well the Bank of England was nationalised, so i'm not sure what you could possibly mean here. Perhaps you could be explicit?

 

[Lexicus]

i also take it you know nothing of the white revolution (aka the bloodless revolution). the shah launched a series of wide-spread reforms designed to weaken the traditional elitist factions that supported the old system. were talking things such as industrialization, the eradication of malaria, allowing women to vote, nationalization of forests and pastures, improvement of the education system, formation of literacy and health corps for rural isolated areas, profit sharing schemes for workers, and other means to reduce the influence of landlords to further support the working class.

I am aware of it, although I will admit I don't know too much about it. What I'm curious about is why you think the United States and the UK overthrew Mohammed Mossadegh, and why the very groups that were supposedly being helped by the White Revolution turned against Pahlavi and his government so decisively.

in 1963 he called a national referendum in which 5,598,711 people voted for the reforms, and 4,115 voted against the reforms.

Well, sounds like a totally fair vote and not rigged at all

Well the Bank of England was nationalised, so i'm not sure what you could possibly mean here. Perhaps you could be explicit?

Indeed, I'm greatly interested to hear the answer!

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: Feel free to continue the Iran/World War II discussion, but all Israel/Palestine discussion must go in the quarantine thread. Thank you.

 

[Hamid.H]

You're not going to allow Churchill and Stalin the benefit of the doubt in wanting to secure oilfields (even "illegally" - an odd notion to extend back to 1941) while Nazi Germany was occupying Western Europe and advancing towards Moscow? There's no possibility that he and Stalin might have been genuinely concerned that they might lose the war (and in the case of Russia suffer wholesale extermination)?

the oil fields that were the most strategically important were in north africa and the caucasus region (stalingard). sure they were interested in the oil, obviously or they wouldnt have taken it and britian wouldnt have pillaged iran for their oil decades after the war. im just saying if we want to talk:

we think of it more as an existential struggle against a genocidal ideology.

the soviets and maoist china were far more brutal and genocidal than nazi germany. to a degree where you cannot even begin to compare body counts with a straight face. but you all backed them? why? isnt that kind of an ideology some sort of existential struggle? you have no moral high ground here and wwii wasnt fought over any moral stance whatsoever.

Well the Bank of England was nationalised, so i'm not sure what you could possibly mean here. Perhaps you could be explicit?

and who profiteers off of that? does it not also operate independently as a link between the government and private sector much like the canadian system?

I am aware of it, although I will admit I don't know too much about it. What I'm curious about is why you think the United States and the UK overthrew Mohammed Mossadegh, and why the very groups that were supposedly being helped by the White Revolution turned against Pahlavi and his government so decisively.

the radical leftists, scholars, and religious fanatics were not being helped by the shah, reza pahlavi who was overthrown in 1979. prime minister Mohammed mossadegh was overthrown in a coup d'etat in 1953 by uk/usa central intelligence agencies. two different people.

but to answer your question:

The Saudis have never shown any respect for human rights, either now or in the past. Even a petty burglar faces having one of his hands chopped off. The liberal press in America prefers to ignore all this, although they don't hesitate to blacken the reputation of Iran. - shah reza pahlavi

Nixon has the audacity to tell me to do nothing in the interest of my country until he dictactes where that interest lies. At the same time he threatens me that failure to follow his so-called advice will be to jeopardize the special relations between our two countries. I say to hell with such special relations. - shah reza pahlavi

Nixon would like to consign us to to the level of the most backward countries in the whole Middle East. Why lower us to the standard of the Saudis rather than raising the Saudis to meet us? - shah reza pahlavi

The world petroleum story is one of the most inhuman known to man: in it, elementary moral and social principles are jeered at. If powerful oil trusts no longer despoil and humiliate our country it is not because these predators have become human, but because we have won a hard-fought battle which has been going on since the beginning of the century. - shah reza pahlavi

As far as we are concerned, we are not the toys of any country, including the United States.- shah reza pahlavi

Pride comes before a fall - although in [Henry Kissinger's] case it's more conceit than pride.- shah reza pahlavi

The Jewish press in the USA is solely responsible for our poor publicity.- shah reza pahlavi

They want liberalization! I'll give them liberalization. I'll loosen the screws until the Americans beg me to tighten them again.- shah reza pahlavi

Well, sounds like a totally fair vote and not rigged at all

most iranians loved the shah and still do. his rule was a very liberal one focused on modernization and reform, similar to his father.

Growing terrorism, permissive societies, democracy collapsing through lack of law and order. If things continue on their present track, the disintegration of Western societies will occur much sooner than you think under the hammer blows of fascism and communism. Freedom is not something that does not have a breaking point, and your enemies would like you to reach that point. - shah reza pahlavi

Soviet propaganda is remarkably effective and the Americans are even more remarkably stupid.- shah reza pahlavi

What's happened recently in Pakistan, India and Kuwait only goes to show that it's futile to imitate Western democracy. They've ended up exactly where they started.- shah reza pahlavi

You approach the Mullahs as if they are normal people. They are not. You see them in your own image; you should not. - shah reza pahlavi

When you think I've been wounded by a good five bullets, one in the face, one in the shoulder, one in the head, two in the body, and that the last one stuck in the barrel because the trigger jammed... You have to believe in miracles. I've had so many air disasters, and yet I've always come out unscathed - thanks to a miracle while by God and the prophets. - shah reza pahlavi

My main mistake was to have made an ancient people advance by forced marches toward independence, health, culture, affluence, comfort. - shah reza pahlavi

hh