Another God Question: What would it take...

[ParkCungHee]

What would it take for God to prove that He exists to YOU. What do you NEED as proof?

Retroactively Prevent the Holocaust. That or appear before me and admit that hes not a benevolent god.

 

[Nick Garai]

Mainly the statements I hear are insulting to something that I hold dear to. You may find poking fun at Jesus is fun, but I don't. You may find flushing down the Bible down the toilet fun and funny, but I don't. Saying that I am irrational or crazy because I believe in God is just an insult to my intelligence in that I cant reason when in fact the statements untrue. I believe in God and yet I still think rationally and live a sane life. The reason why it bothers me when others question my beliefs is the mere fact that the majority of them are more blunt and rude as well as downright insulting.

My beliefs are something that I hold dear too and I am very sensitive when someone does question my belief and take it as an insult to my faith because I take my faith very seriously. I don't take any sort of crap from anyone who takes a jab at my faith just for kicks or they think it's fun to insult a religious person.

I will tell you that my beliefs are strong. My pet peeves is when someone questions if my beliefs are strong. Dont even go there or I will still loudly and state that my beliefs are strong.

CivGeneral, that is going to happen when someone is a professing Believer. Instead of having a sense of a personal attack, use the "turn the other cheek" theology. If someone makes a joke or says something that sounds insulting, show that you aren't offended but instead try to joke with the person.

I know that it is insulting when someone makes those comments but they aren't to YOU they are making those comments to but to Christ. Let Him deal with the comments. Roll with the punches. I've dealt with that from most of my friends who are non-Christian. I get all kinds of comments. You just learn to joke with it or ignore it.

Don't take it personally. You aren't Christ, He is. Let Him deal with the jokes and ridicule just be more diplomatic and less reactive.

JMHO (as a brother in Him)

 

[Nick Garai]

I'm not an atheist but I'll answer: The same as I have against the Easter Bunny and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, common sense. If you want my worship, my obedience and my money the burden of proof is on you, not me.

You mean mean there COULD be a Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! Really. I have been waiting to to see the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all my life!

LOL

 

[sanabas]

Once again, you attack my religion. I was forced to attack Atheism because you have dropped to a level where you automatically call my religion false without any proof of it being false. You attack my beliefs, and you're attacking me.

So to summarise your posts from the last couple of pages, you are claiming that your belief deserves respect, simply because you believe it? Does that apply to all beliefs? Should everyone's beliefs be worthy of respect, and exempt from criticism, just because they believe them?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

You mean mean there COULD be a Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! Really. I have been waiting to to see the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all my life!

LOL

I cant' disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, nor can I disprove any religious deity.

And they all share just as much actual factual evidence for their existence, i.e. - none.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Does air exist? Can I poke that with a stick? Does money or wealth exist? Can I poke those with a stick?

Air consists of a number of different chemicals in gaseous form. If you sufficiently slow down the speed at which their component atoms move, they become solid. Then you can, indeed, poke them with a stick.

As for money, I have often poked it with a stick.

I do see what you mean, and the whole thing is flawed. Christianity is about the belief that God exists, not the proof that he exists.

Your belief is that he doesn't exist. You make a positive assertion that he doesn't exist. Now get to proving me, or can you not? That's what I thought.

I thought Christianity was about treating other people as you would want to be treated, yourself. I was under the impression that Christianity is about not judging people.

I can't "prove you." You could be anybody on the other end of this particular post.

Because God isn't a specimen, or something that can be measured or proved. The FSM is also exempt from science.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is certainly not exempt from science. If I see a piece of spaghetti flying around, apparently under its own power, I want to know why. I would attempt to capture it, photograph it, measure it, x-ray it, and do all kinds of other tests to see why it, among all the pieces of spaghetti in the world, possesses the ability to stay airborne.

And if I find out that it's one of the Universe's oddities and is not in fact part of an endangered species, I will put sauce on it and have it for lunch.

Go to hell, oh wait, you already are.

Well, that's rude.

Atheists can't go to hell. We don't believe it exists.

 

[Red Door]

So to summarise your posts from the last couple of pages, you are claiming that your belief deserves respect, simply because you believe it? Does that apply to all beliefs? Should everyone's beliefs be worthy of respect, and exempt from criticism, just because they believe them?

Yes, but that memo was missed by every Atheist on this forum who has criticized a part of me. They've taken it too far now, I'm not going to lay off them now. Every belief deserves respect, and criticism can be expected and done, but attacking is crossing the line.

 

[GenMarshall]

Yes, but that memo was missed by every Atheist on this forum who has criticized a part of me. They've taken it too far now, I'm not going to lay off them now. Every belief deserves respect, and criticism can be expected and done, but attacking is crossing the line.

QFT . I totally and fully agree with you AlCosta. Every belief deserve respect whether its Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. They have their shares of Criticisms, but they all don't deserve to be attacked like what I often see. Some people just take it too far with the criticisms that it treads into attacks.

Rest assure AlCosta, you're not alone. I myself hate to see any sort of religious belief to be attacked.

 

[sanabas]

Yes, but that memo was missed by every Atheist on this forum who has criticized a part of me. They've taken it too far now, I'm not going to lay off them now. Every belief deserves respect, and criticism can be expected and done, but attacking is crossing the line.

What about being put in psych ward because of your current belief? Should beliefs that you have while psychotic still be respected, just because you believe them? Or is it ok to attack those beliefs, by forcing someone to take drugs to get rid of them?

If a belief is ridiculous, why is it crossing the line to ridicule it?

 

[sanabas]

QFT . I totally and fully agree with you AlCosta. Every belief deserve respect whether its Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. They have their shares of Criticisms, but they all don't deserve to be attacked like what I often see. Some people just take it too far with the criticisms that it treads into attacks.

Rest assure AlCosta, you're not alone. I myself hate to see any sort of religious belief to be attacked.

Why is a religious belief any different to any other sort of belief, CG?

If I believe one of my soft toys is talking to me (and on occasion I do), is this just as valid a belief, and a belief just as worthy of respect as a religious one?

 

[GenMarshall]

What about being put in psych ward because of your current belief? Should beliefs that you have while psychotic still be respected, just because you believe them? Or is it ok to attack those beliefs, by forcing someone to take drugs to get rid of them?

First of all, Religious Belief does not equate to mental illness. Should your non-beliefs be persecuted just because, you don't believe in God? Is it ok to attack thoes beliefs that dont believe in God?

If a belief is ridiculous, why is it crossing the line to ridicule it?

It may be ridiculous to you, but religion deserves respect. Ridiculing a religion is disrespecting the religion itself and the believer. Its ok to offer criticism in a respectful civil diolauge, but insulting and ridiculing a religion treads into disrespect.

Its called religious tolerance and I suggest you learn some of it. And no, I am not being funny, I am being serious. Intolerance of other people's religion and cultures is something that irks me big time.

Why is a religious belief any different to any other sort of belief, CG?

If I believe one of my soft toys is talking to me (and on occasion I do), is this just as valid a belief, and a belief just as worthy of respect as a religious one?

Religious beliefs are spiritual, other beliefs are not.

 

[brennan]

First of all, Religious Belief does not equate to mental illness.

I like you CG and please don't take this as personal, but i'm afraid that's exactly what a 'religious experience' is. In psychiatry they call it having 'overvalued ideas' if you are convinced you are the son of Alexander the great or something; and it's exactly the same mechanism that leads you to believe god has spoken to you...

 

[ParkCungHee]

Yes, but that memo was missed by every Atheist on this forum who has criticized a part of me. They've taken it too far now, I'm not going to lay off them now. Every belief deserves respect, and criticism can be expected and done, but attacking is crossing the line.

Thats absurd. I'm not going to wade into the "does god exist" debate, but to claim that beliefs are valid and deserve respect simply because their beliefs is patently absurd. If I was to come on to the forum and advocate a return to slavery, would you say my beliefs deserve respect. If I believe every word of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are true, would my beliefs deserve respect? You can defend your beliefs on the validity of beliefs, but please don't say that belief in and of themselves are worth respect.

 

[GenMarshall]

I like you CG and please don't take this as personal, but i'm afraid that's exactly what a 'religious experience' is. In psychiatry they call it having 'overvalued ideas' if you are convinced you are the son of Alexander the great or something; and it's exactly the same mechanism that leads you to believe god has spoken to you...

I am sorry, but I will have to disagree with you on this one. A belief in God does not equate to mental illness. Religious experience =/= Overvalued ideas. I believe in a God or hold some sort of spirituality, so does the majority of the people living on this planet. A belief in God or some sort of spirituality is not the same thing as convinced that one is the son of Alexander the great.

If being religious is a mental disorder, SHOW me in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders).

 

[Red Door]

Thats absurd. I'm not going to wade into the "does god exist" debate, but to claim that beliefs are valid and deserve respect simply because their beliefs is patently absurd. If I was to come on to the forum and advocate a return to slavery, would you say my beliefs deserve respect. If I believe every word of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are true, would my beliefs deserve respect? You can defend your beliefs on the validity of beliefs, but please don't say that belief in and of themselves are worth respect.

If you are serious about those beliefs, then yes, your opinion should be respected. My religion is part of me, when you insult it, you insult me.

What about being put in psych ward because of your current belief? Should beliefs that you have while psychotic still be respected, just because you believe them? Or is it ok to attack those beliefs, by forcing someone to take drugs to get rid of them?

If a belief is ridiculous, why is it crossing the line to ridicule it?

My belief is very true. Don't bring that BS in here. You sound like Curt. This is the problem I have with Atheists. Without any provactation, they call my beliefs and me "ridiculous." Okay, that's just freaking annoying. I don't call your beliefs "ridiculous," no matter how wrong I think you are? Grow some balls, learn to mature, and stop insulting religion, just because you think you're better than me because I'm being "hypnotized" into the Church!

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Yes, but that memo was missed by every Atheist on this forum who has criticized a part of me. They've taken it too far now, I'm not going to lay off them now. Every belief deserves respect, and criticism can be expected and done, but attacking is crossing the line.

Your right to believe, or not believe, as you choose deserves respect.

What you believe does not. Especially when there is no factual basis or actual data to support it. If you think somehow it does, then ask yourself if you respect atheists and agnostics in their choice.

I respect your right to make your choice for yourself, yet have no respect for the decision you actually made.

Every belief does not deserve respect.

 

[GenMarshall]

Your right to believe, or not believe, as you choose deserves respect.

Agreed, and like wise I respect the choices of what the other person's religion (Just a heads up, I use belief(s) and faith(s) interchangeably with religion).

What you believe does not. Especially when there is no factual basis or actual data to support it. If you think somehow it does, then ask yourself if you respect atheists and agnostics in their choice.

I disagree, What I or anyone else believes does deserve respect. The same goes in extension for the respect towards atheists and agnostics in their choices. Respect is a two way street. I acknowlage that my religion is not free from criticism, however I do expect to see it done in a respectful manner in order to have a civil diolauge and not done in a trollish and insulting manner.

The point I think AlCosta is trying to make is that if you insult a religion, you insult the person's identity.

 

[Murky]

In the USA we respect everyone's right to free religion but we do not necessarily respect each religion. I certainly don't have respect for some of the more absurd cultish religions.

 

[Red Door]

Your right to believe, or not believe, as you choose deserves respect.

Yes.

What you believe does not. Especially when there is no factual basis or actual data to support it. If you think somehow it does, then ask yourself if you respect atheists and agnostics in their choice.

I've shown evidence of God. They choose not to believe it. I respect atheists belief and do not cry and whine and moan for them to provide me proof of there not being a God.

I respect your right to make your choice for yourself, yet have no respect for the decision you actually made.

Thanks, then tell your friends to stop attacking me for it.

Every belief does not deserve respect.

Why not? Because one belief is better than another? That's just not true, no belief puts a person in higher moral ground than the other, and that person doesn't deserve to attack it.

 

[brennan]

If being religious is a mental disorder, SHOW me in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders).

I cannot of course, but i'll promise you this: a significant proportion of patients with psychoses claim to be in contact with God one way or another.