Another (more ridiculous) T-Shirt Incident

[Dralix]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
he can be the bigger man and make his critics look like the ****heads if he just says a word about understanding the peace protests. I'm telling you, its reelection gold. It's what I'd do.

All too often in life it seems, to me anyway, that neither side of a fight wants to be the "bigger man." The usual reaction is just like Kentonio said "why should I use any more honourable tactics than what those really cool guys are using?"

EDIT: Edited for Enemy Ace, Lefty style

 

[CurtSibling]

Dralix, please tone your langauge!

 

[Greadius]

Who says peace protestors are the enemy?

Granted, they're way too self-rightous and far to happy to martyr themselves. It seems like they believe exercising their free speech to protests is good and ought to be rewarded, and exercising my free speech to call them bloody morons is dirty and wrong.

Its a legitimate disagreement in political discourse; they are the political enemy, and people know the difference between that and the 'other' enemy (well, most people...)

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Not most people, Greadius. A good scouring of these threads will give you at least a hundred examples of peace protesters defined as "traitors", "aiding Saddam", "defending terrorists", etc.

Nobody believes that calling them "bloody morons" is wrong, anyone can insult anybody's intelligence in the Real World and get away with it.

It is the rancor from conservatives and pro-war camp, directed against other American citizens, that bothers me. The stench of the "red scare" is upon us, a festering recycled scent from Hitlers' turn at the helm of "doing whatever it takes to remove evil from our midst"...

 

[Greadius]

And here I thought you were around in the 70s.

In my humble opinion, the peace protestors have used much more inflamatory and absolutist language against Bush than those that complain about them.

Some of the signs they carry discust me.

They're not taking a high road, so I see no reason why they should be treated as such. Followers of Dr. King's or Ghandi's method of humble protesting they're not.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I am sorry Greadius... the peace movement makes up more than the radical fringe this time. Church groups, student groups, nationals of every country, radicals, conservatives, liberals. A "focus group" Bush called them... to which the daily show cleverly supplied that "only this time, that tiny sample of world opinion- represents world opinion". People insult Bush as the level of his outrageousness grows- we've seen the apex of his outrageousness tonight, and I suspect that barring a sudden smallpox epidemic, we'll see more voluminous protest from every sector in the week to come.

 

[Greadius]

When I see a sea of signs, the "Bu****ler" one's drown out the rest.

The groups that organize these protests are no less radical.

When an orginization is based on such a intellectually barren chant as "No blood for oil", they're not going to reach mainstream.

They still have the huge gap to go, because the 'anti-war' people in the mainstream sure as heck don't march in those protests. They wouldn't want their good name sullied.

I feel sorry for average people that have gone there and seen such a farce made of their honest concern.

Its an important message that has been hijacked by radical elements because they can scream the loudest.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by Greadius

Its an important message that has been hijacked by radical elements because they can scream the loudest.

Like Islam, or Capitalism...

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Greadius

When an orginization is based on such a intellectually barren chant as "No blood for oil", they're not going to reach mainstream.

They still have the huge gap to go, because the 'anti-war' people in the mainstream sure as heck don't march in those protests. They wouldn't want their good name sullied.

I know momentum when I see it, and all over the world, including in America, the momentum is anti-war, you are fooling yourself to disagree.

Also leveling a charge of self-righteousness is a catrch 22 is it not?

By the way, my brother isn't radical fringe leftist, and he marched in Seattle.... and he has never even voted.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash

Like Islam, or Capitalism...

Nothing like them.

The mainstream is much more powerful and calls the shots. Especially in Islam, where the radical element is reacting as strongly to opponents within their own society as those outside it.

Originally posted by Neomega
I know momentum when I see it, and all over the world, including in America, the momentum is anti-war, you are fooling yourself to disagree.

Ladies and gentlemen... expert political analysis.

I thought disagreeing was something to be admired.

Originally posted by Neomega
Also leveling a charge of self-righteousness is a catrch 22 is it not?

Uhm... why?

Originally posted by Neomega
By the way, my brother isn't radical fringe leftist, and he marched in Seattle.... and he has never even voted.

Did he organize Seattle?

I think the tail end of your statement is more telling as to why mainstream politicians don't take much notice of the movement.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
EDIT: Sir Jethro just posted the latest on the t shirt incident above, why the hell would I post it again?

With the dropping of the charges, this is probably a bit late now...but it's always good to hear both sides anyways.

The Other Side These are the actual complaint filed, and depositions. It was NOT about the shirts. From the security reports, they were being confrontational with other shoppers and using the shirts as a prop. That is why they were asked to remove the shirts/leave. There's a difference between wearing a t-shirt to express a political statement, and stopping people and trying to persuade them to your point of view.

 

[Neomega]

Originally posted by Greadius
Nothing like them.

Ladies and gentlemen... expert political analysis.
I thought disagreeing was something to be admired.

Expert who what? If you were to pick which side in the public debate had the momentum, who would you say it was, the pro-war camp? I stand behind my statement, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which side has the momentum, Bushs approval rating is a mere 48%.

Uhm... why?

Calling some one self-righteous insinuates you are not.... hence the sin of self-righteousness is commited.

 

[Skullbones]

Originally posted by D.Shaffer
With the dropping of the charges, this is probably a bit late now...but it's always good to hear both sides anyways.

The Other Side These are the actual complaint filed, and depositions. It was NOT about the shirts. From the security reports, they were being confrontational with other shoppers and using the shirts as a prop. That is why they were asked to remove the shirts/leave. There's a difference between wearing a t-shirt to express a political statement, and stopping people and trying to persuade them to your point of view.

If harassing shoppers was the problem why didn't the guards force them to leave? Who cares what kind of T-shirt they're wearing at that point.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by Skullbones
If harassing shoppers was the problem why didn't the guards force them to leave? Who cares what kind of T-shirt they're wearing at that point.

Link <--They moved the link. New URL.

Go read the depositions. Security claims they did. If you read the depositions of security, they asked the two to leave AND cover up/remove the t-shirts. When they refused, that's when the police were called in.