What is "business casual"?
- Thread starter Ajidica
- Start date
Lexicus
Deity
I live in DC where like two thirds of the white-collar workers are psychos who like wearing suits regardless of what their employer requires. Either that or ladder-climbers trying to make a good impression.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I am such a psycho, but only in the right industries. In tech that’s inappropriate.
@Lexicus, @Gorbles:
I'm tired of this. The answer is that there are some places where jeans are considered okay for office/office-type work, and places where they aren't. There are people who would consider them okay in such settings and people who would not. It doesn't look professional to me for someone working in a bank.
As for pandemic-related reasons... I also consider it unprofessional for people who work from home to let their pets barge in. It's annoying to have to ask people to repeat themselves because their dog is barking. Shut the dog away in another room before answering the phone.
I've listed the situations where I've dressed up because it's either a stated requirement (dress code) or it's simply appropriate to do so and if I hadn't, I wouldn't have been taken seriously. I'll add that when I worked in the bookstore at the interpretive centre at the wildlife sanctuary, I wore color-coordinated tops and slacks (the interpreters themselves wore uniforms). Not one person working there ever wore jeans.
As for SCA garb... hooboy. Well, all of my SCA outfits are floor-length dresses in various colors, including a brown sideless surcoat that covered a light-peach underdress. Depending on which one I wore, I'd have either my black cape or my green cape on, or a shawl (I had several in various colors and styles). Shoes would either be red or black. Head covering would either be black or green. Headband holding it on... likely the black one with pearl beads. Accessories would include a couple of belt pouches because modern women's purses look ridiculous when wearing SCA garb. I'd need to revamp mine because nowadays my glucose-testing kit goes with me when I leave here and it's too heavy for any pouch that's not sturdy leather.
I personally do not feel self-conscious in these outfits because I got used to costumes at SF conventions years before joining the SCA. I could put on one of my dresses and walk along the main streets in the downtown and not be embarrassed (did that once, because we were doing a demo at an art gallery for Shakespeare's birthday and I took a break to go to the bookstore where the lady running the place had said she'd like to see me in my medieval clothes; I didn't have a problem, but sure got stared at).
How would other people react?
I've had derisive reactions implying that I'm a hippy from the '60s. More than one person asked if I was a Hutterite (when I was wearing my black dress). One person commented snidely that it's not Halloween. A couple of drivers got distracted staring at me to the point that they weren't actually watching the road; one of these occasions was when a group of us were crossing a freeway on foot in Calgary; the driver went partway into the intersection, staring at us (we were just going to Arby's for an afternoon snack before getting ready for the Saturday-night Bacchanal and it was easier to leave the costumes on rather than change twice).
This was all in the '80s and '90s. Yes, the world was different then. I would not appear in public in my full SCA garb now unless part of a larger group, due to the fact that my head covering can at first glance be mistaken for a hijab by people who don't know the difference. Women wearing hijabs have been attacked in various ways - verbally, physically, sometimes ending up injured and sometimes ending up dead.
I've never worn a real hijab, but there are so many people who don't understand the difference between the various garments worn by Muslim women, the kerchiefs worn by Hutterite women, and the medieval styles worn by some SCA women. They're all very different to me, but look much the same to some people.
If I worked at a bank in Red Deer and wore any of my SCA outfits to work, I'd be told to take it off and dress normally.
Now that Ajidica's questions have been answered, please don't pester me anymore. You asked. I answered, more than once. If this isn't good enough, too bad.
I'm tired of this. The answer is that there are some places where jeans are considered okay for office/office-type work, and places where they aren't. There are people who would consider them okay in such settings and people who would not. It doesn't look professional to me for someone working in a bank.
As for pandemic-related reasons... I also consider it unprofessional for people who work from home to let their pets barge in. It's annoying to have to ask people to repeat themselves because their dog is barking. Shut the dog away in another room before answering the phone.
I've listed the situations where I've dressed up because it's either a stated requirement (dress code) or it's simply appropriate to do so and if I hadn't, I wouldn't have been taken seriously. I'll add that when I worked in the bookstore at the interpretive centre at the wildlife sanctuary, I wore color-coordinated tops and slacks (the interpreters themselves wore uniforms). Not one person working there ever wore jeans.
As for SCA garb... hooboy. Well, all of my SCA outfits are floor-length dresses in various colors, including a brown sideless surcoat that covered a light-peach underdress. Depending on which one I wore, I'd have either my black cape or my green cape on, or a shawl (I had several in various colors and styles). Shoes would either be red or black. Head covering would either be black or green. Headband holding it on... likely the black one with pearl beads. Accessories would include a couple of belt pouches because modern women's purses look ridiculous when wearing SCA garb. I'd need to revamp mine because nowadays my glucose-testing kit goes with me when I leave here and it's too heavy for any pouch that's not sturdy leather.
I personally do not feel self-conscious in these outfits because I got used to costumes at SF conventions years before joining the SCA. I could put on one of my dresses and walk along the main streets in the downtown and not be embarrassed (did that once, because we were doing a demo at an art gallery for Shakespeare's birthday and I took a break to go to the bookstore where the lady running the place had said she'd like to see me in my medieval clothes; I didn't have a problem, but sure got stared at).
How would other people react?
I've had derisive reactions implying that I'm a hippy from the '60s. More than one person asked if I was a Hutterite (when I was wearing my black dress). One person commented snidely that it's not Halloween. A couple of drivers got distracted staring at me to the point that they weren't actually watching the road; one of these occasions was when a group of us were crossing a freeway on foot in Calgary; the driver went partway into the intersection, staring at us (we were just going to Arby's for an afternoon snack before getting ready for the Saturday-night Bacchanal and it was easier to leave the costumes on rather than change twice).
This was all in the '80s and '90s. Yes, the world was different then. I would not appear in public in my full SCA garb now unless part of a larger group, due to the fact that my head covering can at first glance be mistaken for a hijab by people who don't know the difference. Women wearing hijabs have been attacked in various ways - verbally, physically, sometimes ending up injured and sometimes ending up dead.
I've never worn a real hijab, but there are so many people who don't understand the difference between the various garments worn by Muslim women, the kerchiefs worn by Hutterite women, and the medieval styles worn by some SCA women. They're all very different to me, but look much the same to some people.
If I worked at a bank in Red Deer and wore any of my SCA outfits to work, I'd be told to take it off and dress normally.
Now that Ajidica's questions have been answered, please don't pester me anymore. You asked. I answered, more than once. If this isn't good enough, too bad.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
A bank's "job" is to make the customer feel their money is safe there. As such, the attire is formal, conservative, quasi militaristic (suits, slacks), and also a little expensive to show that they must have many who trust them for their small percentages to add up.
In software you want to signal very differently. That your attention is on the product, that you're undistracted and algorithmically elegant and are hip in your design. Wearing a suit in that situation, generally, signals your head is in the wrong place.
Some of this is written, and some of this is unspoken.
But business casual is horrid. I did a few years of it working for my dad at his law firm. Terrible attire.
In software you want to signal very differently. That your attention is on the product, that you're undistracted and algorithmically elegant and are hip in your design. Wearing a suit in that situation, generally, signals your head is in the wrong place.
Some of this is written, and some of this is unspoken.
But business casual is horrid. I did a few years of it working for my dad at his law firm. Terrible attire.
Lexicus
Deity
This opens up a chicken-and-egg problem, though, because I certainly don't feel like my money is safe based on the attire of the employees.
I only use that word because of the DC summer heat, mind. Wearing a tie with a button-down & undershirt is bad enough, but the thought of that plus a jacket makes me want to throw up a little. It's supposed to be 97 degrees tomorrow.
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Yep, the next three days here will be brutal in the swamp. Thank gawd I don't wear ties or jackets anymore.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I, too, am weird.
I did it for 3 summer months in Chicago, 2-3 hours of commute by train a day, full suit and tie. Frequently 100 degrees. The thing about wool suits is that they will keep you warm in the cold but they breathe in the heat.
I am definitely going to call this America brained. Canberra's lanyard class mostly won't be found wearing suits!
I have a very simple policy. If work wants me to wear suits, they're going to pay me more for it.
I'm hoping this is software design, and not fashion design, because on the latter me and half of the folks I know in the industry would be out of a job
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Yes, software, moreso I was thinking more like UI design, which you signal by having good fashion 
There's like the different types, right? The bearded skullet wizard, the hipster dev, the super boring out of touch dresser, all of these guys are signaling in one way or another why you should trust your computer needs to that person. One's going to build you a perfectly efficient database, scaleable, another is going to know how to make clicking a div an experience (death to anyone who uses the word "delight" in industry), another is going to sit there and just put two and two together until you have 2 million. The guy trying to look good on wall street doesn't look like he wants to stick around. But like you said, if some weirdo firm wants to pay you to dress for wall street or court or whatever, fine.
There's like the different types, right? The bearded skullet wizard, the hipster dev, the super boring out of touch dresser, all of these guys are signaling in one way or another why you should trust your computer needs to that person. One's going to build you a perfectly efficient database, scaleable, another is going to know how to make clicking a div an experience (death to anyone who uses the word "delight" in industry), another is going to sit there and just put two and two together until you have 2 million. The guy trying to look good on wall street doesn't look like he wants to stick around. But like you said, if some weirdo firm wants to pay you to dress for wall street or court or whatever, fine.
I've never really thought about it in terms of how people dress before. Maybe that's the case in places like the Bay Area, which are walking stereotypes in of themselves. Over here, it's very much whatever the office allows, goes. We had a guy once who wore nothing but football shirts (except for client meetings, etc). Another with heavy metal band shirts. They were very similar and competent backend programmers.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
That sounds the same.
They both out of touch?
Football shirts are very tribal here (soccer, I guess). I see a whole spread of smart-to-not-smart on the job here, the benefit of being at the same company for over a decade. Trend hasn't changed that much (even though we're an international team now).
Football shirts are very tribal here (soccer, I guess). I see a whole spread of smart-to-not-smart on the job here, the benefit of being at the same company for over a decade. Trend hasn't changed that much (even though we're an international team now).
Lexicus
Deity
I hiked about 10 miles in Rock Creek Park yesterday evening and I drank about 3 liters of water and still peed dark amber
EnglishEdward
Deity
PhroX
Deity
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I'm an engineer rather than a programmer, but I do mainly wear metal band shirts at work....
Also at JR Enterprises on business casual days, Gorean and other formal protocol is relaxed a bit.
I needed a an identifying addition to my suitcase for traveling so I cut up a necktie to use as a colorful tag that is unlikely to be copied by anyone else. the best use of a tie in many years.
