Anyone ever start with anything but a worker?

[WackenOpenAir]

Growing your city one in size usually provides 1 extra shield and sometimes 1 extra gold.
Working a tile normally provides 2 or 3 extra food/shields. Or you could cut forests.

Every time again, those first 15 turns, i am wondering why these 15 turns are actually in the game. Why don't we just start with a worker (and provide the AI something to make up for it)

 

[Heroes]

Man, if you know fishing, and there is some water resource nearby, of course work boat is the best thing to make ...

 

[Sol_star]

I think it is better this way as you can expore the surrounding area with your warrior.
That and depending on which civilization you play building a worker is at times useless early in the game- they don't automaticly have the techs required to build things like farms, roads, mines, clear trees/jungles, etc. I like taking a religious route (spreading it to all the other civs and trading with them to make it their state religion) so those are techs I don't learn until many turns later.

Thus both our game play styles are suported.

 

[lauer]

Well, the growth penalty for building workers (and settlers) might make you postpone building them.

Also, your starting tech might make workers less desirable early on.

Plus, there is your early game strategy. For example, if you go all out early in founding as many religions as possible, you'll get things like Bronze Working, Animal Husbandry, etc. not within those first 15 (or more) turns. You'll need someone like Ghandi (Mysticism, Mining(? not sure about the second one)) to pull this off.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I had already decided for myself that hinduism and budhism are no options.
Even if it is the very first tech i research, it is often also the very first for the AI. The AI thus beats me to them with it's research bonus.

 

[Heroes]

I had already decided for myself that hinduism and budhism are no options.
Even if it is the very first tech i research, it is often also the very first for the AI. The AI thus beats me to them with it's research bonus.

So what's your religion policy? No religion till a late one? Or no religion at all? Emm, maybe the 25% building bonus of organized religion is not so great for its high upkeep, and skipping religion is not too bad ... This should work best for creative, otherwise you often want the +1 culture per turn from religion.

 

[meink]

if you're looking to research the religions, ensure you are working a 2 or 3 (with financial - my latest hobby) commerce square.

I've found on prince if I skip early religions I can usually get philosophy (taoism?) without too much effort.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I only played a total of 10 hours or so, so don't take anything for wisdom from me

I want one thing that gives culture in every city. The civ trait that does that (creative was it?) is good for that, or else i will probably build stonehenge.
I would like an early religion, but there are many things to do in the first turns and i must make a choise. I need usually animal husbandry to work some good tiles, i need the wheel to connect stuff, i need copper working to cut forests.
If a religion research would be a sure thing, it might be worth it to do that before the other needs, however if half the time i am not gonna be first, then i don't want to risk losing 10 turns of research for something relatively useless.

 

[Charles 22]

I like building a barracks first, as it's the surefire way for me to be out there with a serious recon effort. A lot of the time, after barracks are built, depending on whether my early recon still exists or not, I will choose an archer or scout as my 2nd unit. The worker is usually my 3rd or 4th unit, which of course by that time the city has grown to at least a size 3 and it may only take 8 turns to build him.

On the side, I figure that while I may be over-occupied with dashing for goody-huts, making a worker my 1st build puts a cramp in my recon effort alongside making it that many more turns before higher commerce is kicking in from the pop. having climbed a bit. Hopefully by the time I produce that 1st worker I've already researched both the wheel and pottery so that both the commerce and the speed of units can climb and the worker then has plenty of things he can do.

 

[LeSphinx]

WackenOpenAir, the fact that we start without a worker allows a new opening strategies. Ifound this quite good.
I start to build a worker as my first cities is a size 2.
LeSphinx

 

[WackenOpenAir]

The point is that having a size 2 or even 3 city is virtually worthless if your tiles arent worked.
Unworked tiles provide 3 total productions. maybe there could be tiles with 3 shield/food + 1 gold at best.
With 2 food being eaten by that citizen, this provides 1 production and 1 gold.

Your city starts out with 9 research. The second citizen makes it 10. Not only is that is so insignificant that it is not worth delaying anything, a worker also brings in much, much more rewards. If you have any bonus tile to work, you will easilly increase food/production to 5 total, sometimes 6.
(delaying the worker and getting 10 research also is too late for getting that religious tech before the AI)

While this 9 starting research from the capital succeeds in making a second city less important (this one also has little to contribute with unworked tiles) The importance of a worker is actually magnified in civ4 because the bonus tiles do not provide their bonus without being worked and extra citizens are, just like extra citizens, much less significant.

Growing a city with unworked tiles is the least rewarding option of all.
-A worker will upgrade your tiles with 3 extra food/production per worked tile in many cases and has the option to bring in forest cuts.
-A Settler will provide a new city that has again 2 base food and 1 production from the city tile to benefit from. In total, this new city will pay back 4 or 5 food/production (and 1 or 2 gold wich is partially or completely undone by upkeep)
-A city growth with unworked tiles will provide you with 1 food/producion (and maybe 1 gold in some cases)

 

[remconius]

A worker first only works if:
->You have the technology (within the time of worker completion) corresponding to your tiles to give the worker something to do
->You're not going for an early religion to fund your economy
->You dont have to deal with very early barbarians
->Having mining to get to Bronze working quickly is highly preferred.

In most other cases building worker first will give you great benefit.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I think it is better this way as you can expore the surrounding area with your warrior.
That and depending on which civilization you play building a worker is at times useless early in the game- they don't automaticly have the techs required to build things like farms, roads, mines, clear trees/jungles, etc. I like taking a religious route (spreading it to all the other civs and trading with them to make it their state religion) so those are techs I don't learn until many turns later

Agreed. Plus Barbarians keep coming and destroying my improvments if I build a worker first, so better to build some combat units to go barbarian hunting to stop that.

I have been finding myself building the following....2 warrios then a settler then, if there is stone nearby, a worker, if not then straight to Stonehenge and then build a worker after that.

I have been finding myself goinf for Monothesim, to try and found Judaism. Sometimes you get lucky and found Hinduism this way, which is good! When i've done that I start researching those techs that allow worker actions! But then when I start building workers, I build a few, to make up for lost time.

 

[Byrath]

I never build a worker first, always let the city grow to size 3 first. I could really care less if this is not quite as effective as building the worker first. I want to get a few warriors/scouts out to start exploring!

 

[walkerjks]

Man, if you know fishing, and there is some water resource nearby, of course work boat is the best thing to make ...

Yeah, I had an unbelievable food heavy starting spot in my last game. Rice/grasslands, 2 fish, gems/grassland, hills/gems/grassland. I was Elizabeth (had fishing and mining), so I could grow my city from turn 1 by building 2 workboats. By the time the second was done, I was already at size 4 with lots of excess food, so I built a worker to farm the rice and mine the gems. At size 5, I had lots of excess food, was a little hammer light (but still ok), and had a ton of commerce from the 2 gems (7 each as financial?) and 2 fish (3 each). Churning out settlers and workers was trivially easy at this point.

My first settler was slower than worker chop, but I was certainly in much better shape overall by growing first. But having 3 high food spots (including seafood for immediate growth) is pretty rare.

 

[Gato Loco]

I aggree. Unless you're going for a religion, which is only really reliable if you start with Mysticism, a worker is the way to go. Then irrigate your wheat, chop your forests, or do whatever it takes to catch up. I'm ambivalent about the fishing boat, as its a one-shot build while the worker sticks around for the rest of the game. From what I can see there are really three normal openings that yield good results. Worker-improvements first, worker-chop, and warrior/scout-religion. Two out of the three have a worker as the first build.

 

[JudgeDeath]

Does this not depend somewhat on your choice of leader and the difficulty level. That said I like to build at least one Warrior first. Are the 4ish turns lost by building this way such a big deal in comparison to the 15 turns of exploration lost (which might make me choose an alternative to Worker for 2nd build)?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Yeah, I had an unbelievable food heavy starting spot in my last game. Rice/grasslands, 2 fish, gems/grassland, hills/gems/grassland. I was Elizabeth (had fishing and mining), so I could grow my city from turn 1 by building 2 workboats. By the time the second was done, I was already at size 4 with lots of excess food, so I built a worker to farm the rice and mine the gems. At size 5, I had lots of excess food, was a little hammer light (but still ok), and had a ton of commerce from the 2 gems (7 each as financial?) and 2 fish (3 each). Churning out settlers and workers was trivially easy at this point.

My first settler was slower than worker chop, but I was certainly in much better shape overall by growing first. But having 3 high food spots (including seafood for immediate growth) is pretty rare.

That was one hell of a lucky start!

 

[dh_epic]

I've procrastinated my first worker until I've discovered writing and I'm on my way to alphabet. It's worked brilliantly at higher levels.

Procrastinating a worker makes sense if you procrastinate worker techs. The only two reasons you'd procrastinate on worker techs is if you're going for religion, or SOMETIMES if you're going for some kind of aggressive rush.

The worker should come out in the first 50 turns, but not necessarily in the first 15.

 

[warpstorm]

I usually build warriors, scouts, and barracks till I get to size three or four. Then I start on the workers and settlers.