Anyone ever start with anything but a worker?

[Vizzini]

Unless I'm doing some early warmongering I want a size two city before I go to a worker.

The only other time I might consider going worker-first is if I start with mining. I can blitz to Bronze and do a chop-rush settler.

 

[KAuss]

I've gotten so used to starting with a worker I sometimes make one even if there is nothing to improve around...

Still, the worker can make a ton of farms and move on...

It never hurts to have that little guy doing things while your city is also doing things... It takes about 10 turns on epic to improve a farm, so that'll be about the same time as a population grows... Makes perfect sense especially with slavery to have your worker turning out pop boost to speed up your buildings (which can cost upwards to 40 turns with a low hammer town!!!)

 

[Vizzini]

Still, the worker can make a ton of farms and move on

Only if you have agriculture.

If you start with say, Fishing and Hunting, and have no need for a camp - would you still bother building a worker? A worker who would literally stand around with his thumb up his butt?

As with all things Civ: Build a worker first?? It Depends.

 

[Astax]

I build workboat sometiems with fishing. I'll build a worker if I have minign and Im goign for bronze working soemtimes. Otherwise I'll start with settler.

 

[Heroes]

The point is that having a size 2 or even 3 city is virtually worthless if your tiles arent worked.
Unworked tiles provide 3 total productions. maybe there could be tiles with 3 shield/food + 1 gold at best.
With 2 food being eaten by that citizen, this provides 1 production and 1 gold.

Your city starts out with 9 research. The second citizen makes it 10. Not only is that is so insignificant that it is not worth delaying anything, a worker also brings in much, much more rewards. If you have any bonus tile to work, you will easilly increase food/production to 5 total, sometimes 6.
(delaying the worker and getting 10 research also is too late for getting that religious tech before the AI)

While this 9 starting research from the capital succeeds in making a second city less important (this one also has little to contribute with unworked tiles) The importance of a worker is actually magnified in civ4 because the bonus tiles do not provide their bonus without being worked and extra citizens are, just like extra citizens, much less significant.

Growing a city with unworked tiles is the least rewarding option of all.
-A worker will upgrade your tiles with 3 extra food/production per worked tile in many cases and has the option to bring in forest cuts.
-A Settler will provide a new city that has again 2 base food and 1 production from the city tile to benefit from. In total, this new city will pay back 4 or 5 food/production (and 1 or 2 gold wich is partially or completely undone by upkeep)
-A city growth with unworked tiles will provide you with 1 food/producion (and maybe 1 gold in some cases)

Your analysis is quite accurate. However, it seems to be more efficient to grab a worker from AI instead of building your own worker!

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Your analysis is quite accurate. However, it seems to be more efficient to grab a worker from AI instead of building your own worker!

Now that sounds like an interesting idea
Do they work at half speed like in civ3 ?

I'll also have to check the amount of bonus units for the AI. Not nice if they overrun me with their free units.
And then getting it home trough the barbarian filled lands....

 

[walkerjks]

Do they work at half speed like in civ3 ?

No, they become completely yours. If you are Indian, any captured workers get the bonus movement. If you aren't Indian and capture an Indian worker, you lose the bonus movement. So it's just as if you built it yourself.

Edit - whoops! I quoted the wrong line.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Oh that is nice, but with the line you quoted i meant the military units the AI starts with. I don't want to capture a worker from an AI that is gonna send 10 units on me.

 

[Heroes]

Oh that is nice, but with the line you quoted i meant the military units the AI starts with. I don't want to capture a worker from an AI that is gonna send 10 units on me.

No problem if you are Inca! Even if not so, your warrior can still park on a forest or hill inside their border, waiting for XP and promotion.

 

[Vizzini]

No problem if you are Inca! Even if not so, your warrior can still park on a forest or hill inside their border, waiting for XP and promotion.

More likely an Axeman or Chariot in the face.

The AI knows where every resource is in the entire world on turn 1 - if a strategic ancient era resource is within range of their culture the AI will blitz that tech, hook up the resource (and defend it if need be) all within 8 to 15 turns of the start of the game. Faster if that civ starts with Mining. You can bet real money on it.

 

[snepp]

The AI knows where every resource is in the entire world on turn 1 - if a strategic ancient era resource is within range of their culture the AI will blitz that tech, hook up the resource (and defend it if need be) all within 8 to 15 turns of the start of the game. Faster if that civ starts with Mining. You can bet real money on it.

Any testing to back this up, or just speculation?

I've run one very short test (yes, this is hardly conclusive) that shows otherwise.

Noble difficulty, dual map, 2 AI's, both Mansa Musa, I'll refer to them as Mansa Brown and Mansa Yellow. They start with the wheel and mining. I gave both of them nearly identical starting locations, the only difference was giving Mansa Yellow a copper resource that would be in his initial city radius. There are no other resources within 15 or so tiles. I drop a spy on the tiles where the cities would get founded, and watched....

Mansa Brown (the one without copper) starts by researching Bronze Working. Mansa Yellow (the one with copper) starts by researching Hunting, then follows that up by researching Archery.

*shrug*

 

[Vizzini]

Editing via the World Builder is probably not the best way to test.

Choose a "balanced" start. When you choose that map option all strategic resources will be within 2 to 4 tiles of your starting city. Make it a Team game and put 3 or 4 AI Civs on your team so you can see what they're building and researching... this lets you test without ever turning on the World Builder.

 

[deleted_scenes]

The number of different arguments and strategies in this thread prves that starting with a warrior and no worker was a brilliant design decision that allows for many strategic options right from the beginning of the game. In Civ 3 you started with a settler and a worker. Not much else to do other than settle the city and set the worker to work. In Civ 4, you can send your warrior out exploring, giving you the knowledge to plan from the start, or you can bring him home to defend your new city from a rush. Then, you may decide to sacrifice growth to build a worker asap, or wait until your city has grown in size first. Or you might put off a worker entirely because you want to go a different path on the tech tree. It's pretty brilliant how such a small change opens up so many options.

Edit, wait, I'm a total dummy... you do start with a warrior in Civ 3. Has it been THAT long since I played it?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Haha, no you don't start with a warrior, only with a scout if you are expansionist. It's just that everyone starts by building a warrior in civ3

 

[Batvanio]

not that way anymore - now everybidy starts building different things.
I usually still build 2 warriors first

 

[snepp]

Editing via the World Builder is probably not the best way to test.

Choose a "balanced" start. When you choose that map option all strategic resources will be within 2 to 4 tiles of your starting city. Make it a Team game and put 3 or 4 AI Civs on your team so you can see what they're building and researching... this lets you test without ever turning on the World Builder.

Agreed, will have to give this a go at some point.

 

[Good Omens]

I never start with a worker. My first build is always a warrior for city defense.

 

[LeSphinx]

My too. I never start with a worker because generaly you do not have to proper technologies for this improvement to achieve around your first city.
I start with 2 warriors: 1 for exploration and another one for city defense!
Then start on worker

LeSphinx

 

[twelvetime]

I have to agree with waiting with the worker-barring special circumstances (ie: civ traits or lots of surrounding resources). Exploring gives so many valuables--where to settle next, gold/experience from huts, where your enemies are. Those usually outweigh improving just the first city. Agree?

 

[JudgeDeath]

Totally, 12 baby.