APOCALYPSE EDITION: Sons of Monarchy XII: Pacal of Maya

[Robert FIN]

@shulgi

Spoiler :

Thanks for saving my day again shulgi

150 AD save: You are already well past this point but since the beginning of the game is so important, I'll make a few comments on this. Most players would recommend 1 worker per city, some recommend 1.5 per city so you are a bit behind here and this is also seen in working unimproved tiles. You should adopt slavery soon after discovering bronze working, the best time to switch is often when you are moving a settler to found a city whether that is the third city or whenever. Don't whip too much, you want your cities to grow and you don't want to stack unhappiness. 2 population whips with 20-30 hammer overflow are a good starting point.

Probably I should build more sttlers and workers in early game. I beware making too much settlers bc of I fear the maintenance costs too much.. I've mentioned that you guys don't have as good tech slider than I have..and still I'm really noob player. So I think that I should not fear economy crash too much.. And workers... I have to train them more.. 1/city sounds good! I have to whip some cities in future games and don't mind thoughts like "Its too expansive" or "Only noobs like Justinian use slavery".

Many players seek to create a highly cottaged capitol to make maximum benefit of the bureaucracy civic. If your capitol is well-located and this one is, cottage the grasslands,floodplains as much as possible. This can make an excellent site for Oxford and Wall Street though some prefer a separate Wall Street. Production capitols are fine too. With bureaucracy in mind, it is a mistake to have settled your capitol in a location that doesn't get the gems, 1 west is better.

Ok so more cottages, right?

You don't need to switch to a religion if it is spread to one of your cities, Judaism is only in one city and you just switched to organized pacificism. This won't have much benefit unless your state religion is spread to most of your cities and will probably hurt you more in maintenance. Pacifism is great for specialists but hold off until your cities are bigger and empire more mature. Running Judaism is a fine decision if you are seeking allies in Zulu and French but it also hurts relations with the other four civs.

Yes, I wanted to make frenchmans and zulus my friends. That was right thing to do bc of they are strong AIs in my game!

Early war success is good. Crank out some trebuchets. I think an elephant+mace+treb army would do a lot of damage right now. A war time civic like vassalage will bring melee units to 5 exp which helps a lot. Don't run serfdom ever except for for very specific circumstances, slavery is better. I kind of like the idea of keeping bureaucracy + theocracy, researching this won't take long and muskets are really a big improvement on units you have now. If you found a religion, try to generate a great prophet so you can build the shrine, work to spread the religion so you can profit from it. This is a huge bonus to your economy but it is also a large investment in hammers, often worth it.

Thanks! I think that my war was good idea! And yes I'm seeking for some GPP to transform my shrines to money!!

Thanks again!

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

More discussion of Robert FIN's game....

Spoiler :

I beware making too much settlers bc of I fear the maintenance costs too much..

Stop being afraid. Estimate how much commerce you need, estimate how much you've got, if it's not enough, address it. Being afraid is a symptom of letting the game happen to you, when you should be controlling the game.

Here, you almost don't even need to think about it - you look at the starting position, see gems and gold. Doing the calculation anyway is probably a good habit, but it's so obviously plenty at most difficulty levels that it's hardly worth the bother of calculating.

BTW - trading the gems for the gold, when you could have had both in the capital, was a choice that I don't understand. Your comment said that you were going to move 1S, but you don't seem to have noticed that you actually moved SE, delaying the gems.

I'm not sure I understand the motivation behind your other city placements - why is Chichen Itza land locked? Why is Chicken Pizza land locked? Why is Uxmal claiming crap land?

You're either being unnecessarily clever, or you've got an opportunity to improve your early game play by studying the basic principals of city placement.

 

[Giant Wolfman]

@Robert

Spoiler :

Another thing to point out is you talk about your slider being high. The slider can be a decent gauge of how your economy is doing, but ultimately you shouldn't let it dictate your settling patterns. My point is that you can be running a slider at 90% for 90 beakers in a smallish empire, or at 50% percent for 90 beakers in an empire twice as large. But that larger empire is probably going to have more hammers and production, which will strengthen your position.

Don't let the slider dictate your expansion plans. It should be considered, but there's nothing wrong with lowering the slider down in order to grab land that will eventually pay off.

I'd also echo VoU's comments about city sites.

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks for comments! I quess that my problem is that I build too few settlers and workers in early game..

Spoiler :

I'm not sure I understand the motivation behind your other city placements - why is Chichen Itza land locked? Why is Chicken Pizza land locked? Why is Uxmal claiming crap land?

Yeah...Seems like city placement is next think to learn! But Uxmal is in uber-crappy land because I wanted the iron...Mongolian idiots were just too fast

Another thing to point out is you talk about your slider being high. The slider can be a decent gauge of how your economy is doing, but ultimately you shouldn't let it dictate your settling patterns. My point is that you can be running a slider at 90% for 90 beakers in a smallish empire, or at 50% percent for 90 beakers in an empire twice as large. But that larger empire is probably going to have more hammers and production, which will strengthen your position.

Don't let the slider dictate your expansion plans. It should be considered, but there's nothing wrong with lowering the slider down in order to grab land that will eventually pay off.

I'd also echo VoU's comments about city sites.

Ok I shall drop my tech slider a bit in my next game..

 

[Robert FIN]

I was posting with my phone and I destroyed my post. It was really long story of my day of APOCALYPSE. Shortly it was:

Spoiler :

Alex vassalized Genghis. Shaka stabbed my back.

Fo..forgive me Shulgi! I'll never thrust him anymore! Should I keep playing on noble?

 

[FlyingSwan]

View attachment SOM XII - Pacalmac BC-1080 oracle CService.CivBeyondSwordSave
View attachment SOM XII - Pacalmac AD-0001.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

1 tactic which hasnt been discussed yet is going early ALPHA.I moved 1S for the settle then went AGR,HUNT,AH,Writ,Alpha and then traded for all the first tier techs.I got ALHPA about turn 50 then i bribed everyone into war with each other as soon as i got Maths(i managed to bribe a couple of civs even wthout Maths!)

Secret is not to trade Alpha so the enemy cant bribe other civs onto you.With everyone at war their tech rate gets even lower and allowed me to oracle Civil service at turn 73.At 1ad some civs have made peace so now its time to bribe them into wars again.

 

[FlyingSwan]

View attachment SOM XII - Pacalmac AD-1000 1turn from LIB.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

1000AD and 1 turn from LIB,theres no rush to take it tho as other civs are so far behind.Have 3 great people(and 1 nxt turn too)so i could spring 2 more golden ages after this one finishes and maybe take Democracy as the free tech,or even electricity if the great people gods smile.

I built parthenon,great library and MoM so i could keep GAs going even longer.Popped a great engineer and built apostolic palace with him in christianity(which i founded)the i switched back to hinduism to keep neibours happy

Have not been in a single war yet by bribing everyone else into fights.

guess the only question is the quickest way to win from this point.Cavalry,or wait for tanks...

 

[shulgi]

@FlyingSwan

What surprised me the most is that the negative diplo for bribes is outweighed by bonuses for sharing wars, I assumed you'd be in the negative with most everyone. Did you just bribe anyone whenever you could whenever wars died down? This really breaks up the low peace weight love fest that is the problem at the start. I might have to give this another try.

 

[FlyingSwan]

@FlyingSwan

What surprised me the most is that the negative diplo for bribes is outweighed by bonuses for sharing wars, I assumed you'd be in the negative with most everyone. Did you just bribe anyone whenever you could whenever wars died down? This really breaks up the low peace weight love fest that is the problem at the start. I might have to give this another try.

View attachment SOM XII - Pacalmac AD-1848 victory.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[pepe26]

this gam is just about surviving eary and establishing a tech lead (the latter should be a cakewalk with THIS start and THIS opposition) after that its bribing 101

 

[pepe26]

my attempt on deity up until 1140AD

won lib, picked MT, going for communism now, if a can even facism... im already massing up cuirs, which is too early im afraid

build TGL, sistine (forgot to cancel for fail gold) and taj, was first to music (naturally with this opposition)

havent whipped a thing yet because its not really feasible on this map

never went to war bt negotiate a crap ton of trade embargoes and wars

Spoiler :

oh by the way, i opened up with oracle and picked feudalism as some of you guys suggested... due to my RNG luck and some witty bribing, it was pretty useless tho

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

general advice

Hi I am just starting to play monarch.
One way I am still wondering about is the very early build order

On what pop size to build first worker?
On what pop size to build first settler?
When to build granary?

I would welcome advice for this game instance with reasoning.

This is what I would do:
warrior-warrior-settler-warrior-worker-granary
is that correct at all?

or do you guys open with worker?

 

[pepe26]

usually you start with a worker then build warriors and on the happy cap you start on a settler... sometimes on higher difficulties when you really boxed in you build the settler earlier but you dont need to worry about that for now because the AI expands very slowly on monarch

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

usually you start with a worker then build warriors and on the happy cap you start on a settler... sometimes on higher difficulties when you really boxed in you build the settler earlier but you dont need to worry about that for now because the AI expands very slowly on monarch

worker as the very first build when my city is only 1 pop?

i am just checking if I am understanding you right

 

[pepe26]

you are understanding me correctly... it seems counterintuitive at first but the early worker makes up for its cost very quicky

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

hello,
so I for the first time tried to open with a worker as suggested and it made sense on this start.
however my exploration really suffered, I also lost a warrior :-/.

anyways I played the first 40 turns, and here is the current situation:
(until 2400 BC):

Spoiler :

first my dotmaps:

Spoiler :

about city placement:
the next 4 most priority cities are mapped I plan to build these asap:
i) wheat/pig city (to close Shaka?) (also it's on hill for a purpose - but sometimes AI doesn't fall for this and walks straight by)
ii) dye city
iii) wine city - this one I am not amazed about.
there is place for filler cities W and S of capital, but I will leave those for later.
depends on what i explore next - my view is very hampered - I opened with the worker and my warrior was lost.
my logs:

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 0/500 (4000 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:52:10]
Research begun: Agriculture (90 Turns)

Turn 1/500 (3960 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:52:21]
Note settle 1S
Mutal founded

Turn 5/500 (3800 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:54:32]
Player contact made: Genghis Khan of Mongolia

Turn 7/500 (3720 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:55:08]
Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 9/500 (3640 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:55:38]
Tech research finished: Agriculture

Turn 10/500 (3600 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:55:43]
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (11 Turns)

Turn 13/500 (3480 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:56:32]
Player contact made: Shaka of Zululand

Turn 15/500 (3400 BC) [02-Jan-2013 23:58:17]
Mutal finishes: Worker
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 19/500 (3240 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:01:35]
Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry

Turn 20/500 (3200 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:01:50]
Research begun: The Wheel (7 Turns)

Turn 21/500 (3160 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:02:42]
A Farm was built near Mutal

Turn 24/500 (3040 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:03:08]
Mutal finishes: Warrior

Turn 25/500 (3000 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:03:16]
A Pasture was built near Mutal

Turn 27/500 (2920 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:03:37]
Tech research finished: The Wheel

Turn 28/500 (2880 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:03:49]
Research begun: Pottery (8 Turns)

Turn 30/500 (2800 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:04:20]
A Mine was built near Mutal

Turn 34/500 (2640 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:05:18]
Mutal finishes: Settler

Turn 35/500 (2600 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:05:33]
Tech research finished: Pottery

Turn 36/500 (2560 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:05:54]
Research begun: Bronze Working (12 Turns)
A Mine was built near Mutal

Turn 38/500 (2480 BC) [03-Jan-2013 00:07:06]
Lakamha founded

the plan:
to settle 6 cities, tech construction and kill Shaka
the capital is epic, but otherwise the land doesn't seem so good.
tech hunting next for Holkans to get some units around

Apart from anything you would also advise me, I have specific questions:
- build order in Lakamha (granary/monument/warrior/settler?)
- How to make most of my epic capital? (I already read library/academy - will do that - probably Burecracy this game and hammer economy?)
But I usually do very well in midgame, but my concerns are what to do in the opening 100 turns before my SoD is ready.
- I am not much into rushes (HA or chairots), since it's risky and I don't reload - but is this such a situation? but when I see elephants
and all the commerce I have, I would rather play it safe and defend with holkans, if I can get 5-6 good productive cities
- to what extent does building garrison units under monarchy pay off? - I am kinda unsure of this in my games, since I always end up with 1 unit only, since i need all the others on front which seems a more beneficial use (+ whipping unhappyness away) - but I am unsure of the net analysis of this - in this perfect capital it would seem mak it byrocratic and huge

 

[FlyingSwan]

@nicol.

Spoiler :

1NW for the dye city,FIN makes that a 7 commerce tile when calender comes in.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

4000BC-2400BC


1000AD:

Spoiler :

2040BC Shaka takes the pigs/wheat position, which I kinda half expected, so I risked an unprotected settler and did this, which proved to be a good move and city:
1800BC: Chitzen Itza
1720BC: Uxmal
975BC: Mayapan

After this I decided to mass elepults and not find any new cities (stone/fish) city and marble city.
I was amassing elepults, when we became friends with Napoleon and ?Shaka? thorough religion and Genhis declared on me.

Genhis took Maypan, since my troops were in Chitzen Itza, but this is what happened to him eventually:

Spoiler :

I immediately had Shaka and Napoleon join in, although for good techs.
During this was Shaka + Napoleon declared on rest of the map, but I didn't join.

I would call this game also fun with construction, since not only the elepults are useful, but unique building as well.

These are the decisions I must make now, which i feel can still affect the game outcome:

1) declare on Shaka (who is a friend?) or Alex? (who is weak and has no friends and the attack force is near him.)
2) should I keep building workshops or forget the whole hammer economy concept?
3) I will settle marble now, civs just got calendar now, should I try for Mausoleum? or GLB? or both? Napoleon already has aesthetics. - i kinda delayed calendar and GrL. but on the other hand, i managed to survive in one of my first monarch games in a very apocalyptic environment.

log:

Spoiler :

Turn 42/500 (2320 BC Bronze Working
Turn 45/500 (2200 BC Hunting
Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) Writing
Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) Mathematics
Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) Masonry
Turn 82/500 (825 BC) Construction
Turn 91/500 (600 BC) Horseback Riding
Turn 104/500 (275 BC) Currency
Turn 111/500 (100 BC) Alphabet
Turn 114/500 (25 BC) [ Iron Working
Turn 123/500 (200 AD) Metal Casting
Turn 123/500 (200 AD) [03-Jan-2013 22:37:57]
Tech traded to Napoleon (France): Currency
Tech traded to Napoleon (France): Horseback Riding
Napoleon (France) declares war on Genghis Khan (Mongolia)
Tech traded to Napoleon (France): Construction
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Meditation
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Fishing
Tech traded to Shaka (Zululand): Horseback Riding
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Archery
Tech traded to Alexander (Greece): Currency
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Polytheism
Turn 132/500 (425 AD) Machinery
Tech traded to Shaka (Zululand): Polytheism
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Priesthood
Tech traded to Alexander (Greece): Metal Casting
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Monarchy
Turn 145/500 (700 AD) Engineering
Tech traded to Napoleon (France): Engineering
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Monotheism
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Feudalism
Turn 157/500 (940 AD) Code of Laws
Turn 158/500 (960 AD) Sailing
Tech traded to Shaka (Zululand): Code of Laws
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Calendar

1st GG: boost in mayapan
2nd GG: Scaut supermedic
3rd?
1st GS: academy
2nd GM: Golden age just as war broke out
2nd GM: waiting for another GA?

Turn 41/500 (2360 BC Mutal finishes: Warrior
Turn 45/500 (2200 BC Lakamha finishes: Warrior
Turn 46/500 (2160 BC Mutal finishes: Granary
Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) Mutal finishes: Settler
Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) Lakamha finishes: Settler
Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) Mutal finishes: Holkan
Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) Lakamha finishes: Granary
Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) Mutal finishes: Holkan
Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) Lakamha finishes: Monument
Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) Mutal finishes: Holkan
Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Monument
Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) Lakamha finishes: Holkan
Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) Mutal finishes: Library
Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Granary
Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) Lakamha finishes: Worker
Turn 70/500 (1200 BC) Uxmal finishes: Granary
Turn 71/500 (1160 BC) Mutal finishes: Barracks
Turn 73/500 (1080 BC) Mutal finishes: Settler
Turn 73/500 (1080 BC) Uxmal finishes: Monument
Turn 76/500 (975 BC) Mutal finishes: Holkan
Turn 79/500 (900 BC) Lakamha finishes: Barracks
Turn 80/500 (875 BC) Mutal finishes: Worker
Turn 81/500 (850 BC) Lakamha finishes: Worker
Turn 82/500 (825 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Walls
Turn 83/500 (800 BC) Lakamha finishes: Axeman
Turn 84/500 (775 BC) Mutal finishes: Axeman
Turn 85/500 (750 BC) Uxmal finishes: Barracks
Turn 88/500 (675 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Barracks
Turn 90/500 (625 BC) Mutal finishes: Ball Court
Turn 92/500 (575 BC) Lakamha finishes: Catapult
Turn 92/500 (575 BC) Mayapan finishes: Monument
Turn 94/500 (525 BC) Mutal finishes: Catapult
Turn 94/500 (525 BC) Uxmal finishes: Axeman
Turn 96/500 (475 BC) Mayapan finishes: Granary
Turn 97/500 (450 BC) Lakamha finishes: Catapult
Turn 99/500 (400 BC) Mutal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 99/500 (400 BC) Uxmal finishes: Stable
Turn 100/500 (375 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Library
Turn 102/500 (325 BC) Lakamha finishes: Stable
Turn 105/500 (250 BC) Mutal finishes: Stable
Turn 106/500 (225 BC) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 107/500 (200 BC) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 108/500 (175 BC) Chichen Itza finishes: Stable
Turn 108/500 (175 BC) Mayapan finishes: Barracks
Turn 110/500 (125 BC) Mutal finishes: Academy
Turn 110/500 (125 BC) Uxmal finishes: Axeman
Turn 110/500 (125 BC) Mayapan finishes: Worker
Turn 111/500 (100 BC) Lakamha finishes: Ball Court
Turn 112/500 (75 BC) [ Chichen Itza finishes: War Elephant
Turn 113/500 (50 BC) [ Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 113/500 (50 BC) [ Mayapan finishes: Catapult
Turn 116/500 (25 AD) [ Lakamha finishes: Axeman
Turn 117/500 (50 AD) [ Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 117/500 (50 AD) [ Mayapan finishes: Catapult
Turn 118/500 (75 AD) [ Mutal finishes: Market
Turn 120/500 (125 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: War Elephant
Turn 121/500 (150 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 121/500 (150 AD) Mayapan finishes: Catapult
Turn 122/500 (175 AD) Mutal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 122/500 (175 AD) Mayapan finishes: Walls
Turn 123/500 (200 AD) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 126/500 (275 AD) Mutal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 127/500 (300 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 127/500 (300 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: War Elephant
Turn 128/500 (325 AD) Mayapan finishes: Granary
Turn 130/500 (375 AD) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 131/500 (400 AD) Mutal finishes: Catapult
Turn 131/500 (400 AD) Lakamha finishes: Forge
Turn 131/500 (400 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: Forge
Turn 131/500 (400 AD) Mayapan finishes: Monument
Turn 134/500 (475 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 135/500 (500 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: Catapult
Turn 135/500 (500 AD) Uxmal finishes: Forge
Turn 137/500 (540 AD) Mutal finishes: Forge
Turn 137/500 (540 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 138/500 (560 AD) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 140/500 (600 AD) Mutal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 140/500 (600 AD) Lakamha finishes: Catapult
Turn 140/500 (600 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: Catapult
Turn 141/500 (620 AD) Lakamha finishes: Catapult
Turn 141/500 (620 AD) Mayapan finishes: Catapult
Turn 143/500 (660 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 143/500 (660 AD) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 144/500 (680 AD) Mutal finishes: Axeman
Turn 146/500 (720 AD) Lakamha finishes: Catapult
Turn 146/500 (720 AD) Mayapan finishes: Axeman
Turn 147/500 (740 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: War Elephant
Turn 148/500 (760 AD) Mutal finishes: Catapult
Turn 148/500 (760 AD) Uxmal finishes: Catapult
Turn 148/500 (760 AD) Ning-hsia finishes: Monument
Turn 149/500 (780 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 151/500 (820 AD) Mayapan finishes: Barracks
Turn 152/500 (840 AD) Mutal finishes: Catapult
Turn 152/500 (840 AD) Uxmal finishes: Worker
Turn 153/500 (860 AD) Lakamha finishes: War Elephant
Turn 153/500 (860 AD) Mayapan finishes: Scout
Turn 154/500 (880 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: Castle
Turn 154/500 (880 AD) Ning-hsia finishes: Granary
Turn 155/500 (900 AD) Mayapan finishes: Longbowman
Turn 157/500 (940 AD) Uxmal finishes: War Elephant
Turn 158/500 (960 AD) Lakamha finishes: Aqueduct
Turn 158/500 (960 AD) Karakorum finishes: Monument
Turn 159/500 (980 AD) Chichen Itza finishes: Ball Court

total:
Academy 1
Aqueduct 1
Axeman 7
Ball Court 3
Barracks 6
Castle 1
Catapult 16
Forge 4
Granary 7
Holkan 5
Library 2
Longbowman 1
Market 1
Monument 7
Scout 1
Settler 4
Stable 4
Walls 2
War Elephant 24
Warrior 4
Worker 6

@FlyingSwan

Spoiler :

Thanks for the tip. I wanted the city to have ivory, but that's not as good.
I tend to underestimate calendar in my games, which is probably a mistake in this case.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

@shulgi

Spoiler :

you don't have any units when Shaka comes?
is that because K-mod? (I heard the mod makes early cities almost unconquerable without siege ie. for the AI) - so you relied on that?

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

@Prodeo

Spoiler :

how did you manage not to get declared upon, with so little units on immortal? or is there a stack somewhere?
seems to me most civs would declare on you the moment your strength is below 0,7 and they get their 3 attack units