APOCALYPSE EDITION: Sons of Monarchy XII: Pacal of Maya

I wonder how you did it guys.... I tried on Immortal, but couldn't find anyone who would like to war without me going into war...

they all were open to ideas, but the price was too big since only alpha didn't suffice.

On Deity wars had already begun by the time I had alphabet...I actually had to restart in order to plan my expansion so that I didnt share any borders with Shaka until after he started plotting on his first target (the first time I settled near him, got a border pop, then a war dec around 1500BC).

You guys can also do the old trick of declaring war against a distant AI, and then cheaply bribing in one or two other AIs against them (most ideally, an AI who is between you and the one you declared war on). In this case it's quite probable that you'll never even see one of that AIs units...and it also gives you the opportunity for further cheap war-bribes against the first person you bribed.
 
- 1905AD

1905AD-1984AD (domination win)
Spoiler :

1912AD - Alex becomes Napoleon's vassal. I am all alone now

hammer economy example


ww2 begins


new sarai survived with 1 machine gun


1984 - domination win. Napoleon had almost every wonder in Orlean and Paris, along with massive stack of settle GP.



my 2nd monarch win in a row
 
I finally got around to playing this...

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I'd gone for Oracling Construction in an earlier playthrough, but this time I followed VoU's suggestion and shot for an early Academy and Oracling Civil Service. Both the first GS and the Oracle came in on the same term, which was a significantly stronger play. This time, I focused on turtling up, buddying up to Shaka and Genghis, and waiting to strike. Genghis daggered at one point when I was at war with Shaka, but he lost his stack quickly, at which point he, Alex, Monty, and Napoleon/vassal Toku (whom EVERYONE hated) fell in line. In the end, thanks to the proximity of his land and the fact that I'd gifted him MT, Gunpowder, and a bunch of cash (Pacal is no brute like the Aztecs or Mongols; he demands only the best of his slave-states!), it was Monty who ended up wiping Toku off the map.

My favorite part? The oft-conquered, formerly Mongolian city of Samarqand. It had been captured by Napoleon in a previous war and remained so until it was captured by Mayan cavalry in 1605. Then the French took it back in 1605.

Then this happened.



In short, the year 1605? Eventful.

1615 was when it all came to an end, five years after Napoleon's surrender at the battle of WaterlooOrleans. Emperor Pacal, ruler of all of the world, reformed the barbaric states, demanding (at last) the civility upon which Mutal had been founded. Technology was traded at a rapid pace, and the world entered a true, eternal Golden Age.

Then, in 2012, Shaka was microwaving a Hot Pocket when he realized it wasn't a Hot Pocket at all; it was a uranium rod.

THE END.
 
Well, that went to Hell in a handbasket - by 500BC.

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Capital is great, but apart from that there is naff all food anywhere, with nasty neighbour in every direction. Not cool. Got boxed in pretty badly.

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Genghis have been plotting for about a thousand years already, and now Alex and Monty have joined him. I'll be amazed if I'm not the target of at least one of them, considering their aggro love-fest.

Have built a fair few Holkans, but without metal it's not much I can do really. Only have five cities and have been boxed in. Did get the Oracle -> Metal Casting, and the Pyramids haven't gone yet so maybe there is hope to GE that one. But not going to make a great difference here I suppose. Capital is already great and pumping out a lot of commerce, which means I'm keeping up okay (I think). The problem is lousy land, capital aside, and a ton of neighbours who want me dead. I'm basically just waiting for the dogpiling tbh.
 
Oh man, what an easy game :)

imm conquest 1665 AD
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Moved one south and had alot to improve right away.
Never had to worry about unhappiness for a long time with 3 luxury resources in 1st city. Settled my 2nd city after a little while to the east on the silk sharing the corn and cow. Then I just went all out to get SC with no expansion. And thankfully got it.
But man was they tech rate slow. After I got CS I thought i'd be able to trade for Alpha if I went for Aest but no dice. But after self teching currency Nappy finally got it. Well, some of the AI's didn't even have writing...
I stayed out of religion as it was all over the place but used my conf missionary to convert Shaka as a lone Confu. Then after giving Shaka writing for 30 gp I decided to bribe him in on the Buddist Nappy. So for Alpha and a bunch of other outdated techs Shaka dowed Nappy. I knew Shaka would eventually dow me so I decided this was the route to go. And this worked out perfect as it left me alone and started a world war. Nappy brought in Monty and Gengis and Toku joined Shaka. SO i could at nice pace build an academy in my capitol and bulb edu while expanding to 7 cities.
I could have gone lib at 500 AD but I wanted a safe and not so slow battle and went to lib rifling with the aim of cavs. But boy it took a long time as I had to self tech everything, even machinery as noone even had it after I got edu....
But Nappy dowed me when I refused to give him Aest. After losing 10 units and me none he still demanded my city....sigh.
Then Gengis made peace and started plotting which made me worried. I saw his stack going to his border city so I gave Nappy Litt just to get him off my back and move my army. Well, the rng really ***** me of in this coming war. Gengis bribed in Alex on my and they started sending their stacks. And Gengis won like 3 fight below 50% right off the bat. And it continued for most of the war. problem was that it didn't matter much as there was no way he was getting though my longbows and knights. In the end both gave up and gave me some gold for peace. Then I contined and libbed rifling before anyone got edu. And I even got economics before.
At 1400 AD I dowed gengis with 30 cavs and just smashed his whole stack on the 1st turn. With knights as his best unit well, he didn't fare so well. But still with no army he didn't cap until his capitol fell 4 cities later. Then Alex was next up. Him and Monty were still pounding poor Tuku and I thought this was the perfect time to backstab Alex. Obvioulsy Toku though the same and just the turn before me declaring Toku peacevassals to me :). And with Alex stack stuck in Japanse territorry he got crushed.
But when I stood just outside Athens with my stack he saw reason and capped. This meant his big stack was still intact :). Monty had nothing to put up against me, Alex and Gengis as I now had igted them techs so they got cuirs.
After Monty only Nappy and Shaka(who had become Nappy's vassal aftera long war)
were left. Once again smashed Nappy's stack in one turn before he even knew what happened and after that city after city fell. But boy was he stubborn. Only with 3 cities left did he finally cap. Shaka the nutcase refused to cap even after losing 3 cities :) and at war vs the world. He had no real big stack so I just mowed everything down. With 3 cities left he capped after facing elimination. Noone was even close to rifling until I gave the Ai's my techs so they could do nothing. That I had 3 GG cavalry sure didn't help them either. This game everyone was at was constantly with me just staying out of it.
 
Since the last attempt went so bad, I'm trying again.

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Obviously have a little map and neighbour knowledge this time, but I'm trying something different. Not going for the Oracle at all, preferring to seal off land instead. Have just researched Alphabet, but none are willing to go to war over it. Hopefully some are when I get Math online. Alex is already plotting, hopefully not against me as he's a fair bit away IIRC.

How does the city placements look?
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I wanted to block off both Shaka and Genghis as they came too close last time. 4th city should therefore go SE I think. The mark doesn't have food, but if I farm the two grasslands and the floodplains, it should be able to work the 3 grassy hills.

When I backfill there will then be 6 cities. Would love to get one of the blue spots, especially the wheat, but if last game is anything to go by, Shaka will settle for stone pretty soon. Lakamha in the NW already have a barracks and I'm thinking it could become a pretty decent HE city, neatly located close to Shaka for his sure-to-come shenanigans.

Unfortunate there is so little food around our capital, or it would have been easier to branch out. Punishment for all the happy and commerce resources I suppose.

Am thinking to pick up construction pretty soon for our UB and catas / elephants.

Oh crud. Just noticed the wheat spot wouldn't work as it's too close to Lakamha. 1S of the wheat should work though.

Have you guys whipped the capital much btw? Seems a shame to do that with all the great tiles, but I did double-whip the 2nd settler, putting up a 1-turn granary and then putting a fair bit into a library too, thanks to a chop that went into the +100%:hammers: granary. Turned out allright I think.

When the settler is out, I'm thinking to hire two scientists and get up an academy.
 
@Pangaea

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Personally I'd ignore the Pig/Copper site to the NW because of the high maintenance costs and it's a bit of red rag to a bull for Shaka. If you are going to expand agressively towards a civ I'd expand

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east towards Ragnar


 
@Pangaea
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Yes you should play this map again, it is fun if it doesn't kill you early. I had three pretty good sites on the Eastern line with with the Chichen Itza city 2S, 1E. I don't think you can make it to the pigs/copper site and it's not really necessary since holkans don't need copper. hard to say on marble, I think I founded it in time for Great Library but not early enough to get it for oracle. Either way, founding cities to East, North and NE are priorities followed by wheat or stone, I think wheat might be a little too ambitious but maybe not. Disclaimer - I miss the oracle a lot more than I should.

Bribe some AIs into war which can keep you safe. The diplo penalty for those bribes isn't really that bad and does a lot to curb the low peaceweight love fest
 
Cheers guys. I played to 800AD, and things are going better.

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Am on the laptop now and played on the desktop so no pictures, but will add some later.

Ultimately decided pig/copper was too ambitious. If it had been on a hill - maybe - but this was just too risky and farflung. Went for the fish-site instead in the NW. Have expanded to 8 cities now, including the 1-tile island in the south. Went for an incredibly late GLH, and it was soooooo frustrating to lose it by 1 turn in 500AD. But thankfully managed to land MoM and the GLib shortly after.

Why did all these wonders go so late? War. War, war, and even more war. I first bribed Shaka on Genghis in 1300BC or thereabouts. Alex had been plotting for ages, and suddenly a stack of his marched on Chichen Itza. I was rather unpleasantly surprised when I got triple-DoWed by Alex, Toku and Monty on the same turn. Yikes!! The city wasn't really in trouble though, and archers and holkans mostly managed okay against his phalanxes and assorted others. Killed the odd scout here and there, and pillaged Toku's iron as I happened to have a holkan scouting that region when they DoWed me.

There have been so many wars I don't actually recall them all. But in 800AD Napoleon is fighting Shaka, Genghis is fighting Alex, and just about everybody are fighting Toku. This means all are occupied with wars, which explains why important wonders have gone so late, and I'm starting to pull ahead in tech with only the no-show war with Toku to 'worry' about.

Have built up an okay stack of elephants and catapults in the NW military city, so may well DoW Shaka and try to vassal him. Napoleon took a tundra-ish city off him, and from chariot scouting he doesn't have a mean force, though he does have longbows. Hopefully elepults-axes can deal with that, because I'm really eyeing up his capital with Mids in it.

It's either to DoW him, or stay out of it all until Cuirs or thereabouts, because Napoleon is friendly with me, and Genghis pleased.

Hmm, if I manage to vassal Shaka, I suppose Napoleon will not be best pleased with me, considering they hate each other now. And Nappy will have free hands to tech away again. Suddenly not sure now, after 95% deciding to DoW earlier.


@shulgi
Spoiler :
Three eastern cities would probably have been better as it would allow me one more city in basically the same space. The Dye city is turning out to be pretty darn good though. With two commerce beasts like that, research shouldn't be a problem. Especially when everybody else are fighting wars non-stop :D


The map is great fun, at least now when I opened a bit better :) Could have gotten the Oracle too though. It went ridiculously late as well, but at the time I was more interested in Construction, Code of Law, and then getting the free Music Artist for a Golden Age.
 
After the Zara Yaqob Nobles' Club game, I went back to this cracker. Played another 500-ish years, to 1350AD.

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Things were going well with every AI fighting various wars. Then the scales tipped a little too far. Firstly, Alexander took another city off Genghis Khan, which surely would mean capitulation next (think this was the 3rd city he lost). So I gave Alex some techs for peace. Secondly, Napoleon captured Shaka's capital, which almost surely would mean capitulation as well. So I gave Napoleon some techs for peace as well.

Few turns later Montezuma comes to say "Hello".
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He brought some friends with him.


A handful turns later and Alexander makes a demand.
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I'm 99% sure refusal would mean war, so I had to change civics (which wasn't a bad thing considering Monty had just declared, with vassal Toku tagging along).


In the same turn, 4 turns after Alex was bribed off Genghis' back, he kindly wanted to thank me.
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#¤"! thoroughly hit the fan!


I whipped a couple of Longbows and brought the elephants and catapults from Lakamba down to Chichen Itza, and even brought up Walls, which gave us time to reinforce while they hacked at the walls with iron-clad hoofs. It was perhaps a mistake to let them attack considering the amount of catas he brought, but I thought the Longbows would wipe him. Instead, it was about 1:1 in casualties, though I did wipe his stack in the aftermath. A few stragglers turned on their heels and ventured back to Monty's wrath.

Liberalism wasn't in risk, so after a bulb and teching Nationalism, I slow-teched the rest while building up some funds for HA upgrades. In 1270AD I took Military Tradition
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It was more expensive to upgrade than I thought, but when 12 Cuirs had been assembled, I rode out beyond Genghis' stack to attack behind his lines.

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For some strange reason his stack remained in the safety of that forest, until the end of their days, without making a move to either defend his cities or take ours.


For once I managed to surprise a few workers.
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The next turn, Genghis Khan met an untimely end.
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I don't trust the RNG for a second, 90% seems to mean 50% at best, but at 100.00% I took the calculated risk of attacking with the Super-Medic. I kid you not, I was nervous.


With Mongolia wiped from the map in 1350AD, here is an overview:
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At this point I'd quite like to head the Cuirs division over to Shaka and wipe him as well. The problem is, Monty is in angry-fist mode again, and Alex has a ton of units in and around Beshbalik. Unfortunate Napoleon took Shaka's capital, which has the Pyramids. Thankfully Karakoroum was brought back to Genghis Khan via an AP vote, so I could capture that. Nothing but an Academy was left standing, but it's a good city with great production capacity. Hadn't HE been built in Lakamba, I'd build it in Karakorum.
 
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Playing this on monarch. I SIPed, ignored the marble and expanded cities to block genghis and shaka. I oracled construction and elepulted genghis. eliminated him from the map. when i started the war on him i bribed shaka onto napoleon to keep him off my back. the entire world is buddah so that kept most of the AIs at pleased with me. monty declared on toku and alex dogpiled genghis while i was finishing him off.

after shaka and nappy made peace and their treaty expired, nappy declared on shaka and monty jumped in on him after vassalizing japan. i'm sending my highly promoted catapults and elephants over to snipe a few cities from shaka while he's distracted. in the meantime i built the heroic epic in karakorum, built the mausoleum of mausollos and built the great library/national epic in mutal. i was the first to music and have been saving my GA for a post mauso golden age going to caste/pacifist starve out some scientists to power through education and lib on the way to mt. once i get it i'll upgrade all my units to cuirs and try to knock alex down a peg or two since he's the closest to me in tech.
 
This was an incredibly hectic round, but I have played to 1555AD now, warring non-stop really, sometimes defensively, trying to stay alive with diplomacy and bribes.

Spoiler :
As mentioned in the last update, the idea now, after wiping Genghis Khan off the map, was to take on Shaka. However...


Alexander's stack in Beshbalik, and it was too tempting to not try to remove it. Hence


Next turn the inevitable (I suppose), happened:


Was ever so close to taking out Beshbalik

At least his stack is gone, and we took the city the next turn.

Our northern neighbour comes to say hello.


No way I could stave off that with the Cuirs in the far east (needing healing), and it wasn't defended well enough atm. So...:

Thankfully that made Shaka turn back with almost his entire stack right away.

Way up north (I captured 2 barb cities here a handful of turns before Shaka could, in the last update), a barb galley was caught between a rock and a cold place


Montezuma had been in first mode for a while, and I suspected he plotted against me. Soon enough the window of uncertainly was closed.




This was plenty enough to ravage my newly captured Greek cities. Alex wouldn't capitulate despite losing several cities and his main stack, but I had no choice:


To my surprise, a cautious Alex was willing to oblige


Meanwhile, in the NW, the start of a new second Cuirs division grabbed a city from Shaka, while Napoleon was bombarding and throwing units at Nobamba


With Alex's stack wiped out in our war, there was no way he was able to defend his cities from the combined force of Montezuma and Tokugawa. I deliberated and pondered what to do:

1) Declare now and (try to) wipe out their stacks in the open
2) Wait till Montegawa have thrown their force at Thebes and hopefully lost a lot, but captured the city, then DoW and retake the city, wiping out their remaining force in the process

I chose option 2:


Of course there wasn't much left standing in Thebes after a double capture, but it meant the stacks of Tokugawa and Montezuma were virtually wiped out, and on top of it I got a city from an AI I was no longer at war with. The city was taken with the Super Medic and only a half-dead Cuir could accompany him in the city for the interturn. I did have a few units on the hill east of the city, but Monty had some HAs in his stack, so could have gone around them to recapture the city if he played it well. Thankfully for the life of my supermedic, he attacked the hill instead and stopped short of a full assault on the city.

On the Shaka frontier, Napoleon was taking his sweet time to bombard down the walls of Nobamba, a city I hoped to steal from him. I grew tired of waiting, and instead moved the Cuir stack further inland to attack other Zulu cities. uMgungundlovu was the first target:

Here you can also see how utterly swamped in Zulu culture Ulundi is. Napoleon took it in the war I had to call off, and it has since shrunk to size 1. Ouch.

2 turns later, and Napoleon have finally withered away the walls in Nobamba and assaulted the hill city. Thankfully he got just short of taking it, though he had plenty of units left over, all injured from the battle.

Naturally, newly produced/whipped Cuirs took the city in the same turn. Thanks Nappy! :)

Montezuma had had enough, his stack wiped, so wanted a peace treaty to focus his efforts on Alex (or so I assume).

No cap, but this ensured my eastern border, which was nice considering most Cuirs were wounded. Despite being well-protected, there was also a very annoying riot in Satsuma, taking that city out of the equation for 7 turns. Toku (and Monty) is on the future hit list, especially Tokyo.

Thanks to upgrading some war elephants stuck in the former barb cities, I managed to assemble enough reasonably healthy Cuirs to take out Shaka's two last remaining cities:




Napoleon and I are on very good terms, so I have no intention to attack him. The far east is the issue. Hopefully relations with Alex will improve now, and hopefully he can keep Toku and Monty at bay for the time being (as I can't redeclare on them for 10 turns). Right now I need to get the economy back on its feet, and get out more units. Rifling will be in soon, at which point Cuirs can be upgraded to Cavalry. Doubt I'll be able to do that within 10 turns, but the idea is to move the Cuirs over to the east, upgrade them, then take on Toku and Monty, hopefully before they can reassemble huge stacks again, or get rifles themselves.

The big unknown is Alex. He's still at war with Toku and Monty, and I hope he will hold up well enough not to capitulate. If that war goes on for a while without any making headway, I'll be in a good position to settle scores with Montygawa.

Finally, here is the lay of the land in 1555AD.





This was incredibly tense, and only thanks to bribing Napoleon onto Shaka and peacing out with Alex and bribing him onto Toku was it possible to keep all my cities. Shaka would almost certainly have taken Lakamha, the HE city, which would have been disastrous. I didn't have the units to counter his stack, and although I moved all the defence I had towards it, I think he would have gotten through considering he brought so many trebs.

The same on the eastern front really. Without bribing Alex onto Monty and Toku, I wouldn't have been able to counter their stacks. Most of the cuirs were healing. But the bribe bought me some time to heal up and then later counter.

Diplomacy and bribes seem to be very important in this hellish map.


Hopefully I can wrap things up in the next update. This was quite brutal.

Have had the techs for universities and banks for quite some time, but have only had the opportunity to get up 1 university, in the capital. Otherwise it has been units, units, units.

Tense! :crazyeye:
 
Wrapped up this game today. Domination in 1806AD.

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Healed up and resupplied the Cavalry forces during a Golden Age. Then it was time for Tokugawa and Montezuma to pay.
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I attacked in two columns towards Tokyo and Osaka
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...capturing both cities in turn 2 of the war:
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In turn 3 Kyoto falls, and Japan is wiped out.
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Not sure if I've seen such nasty relations before:
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-24. Safe to say we aren't best buddies!


After healing up and taking out some counters, I attack anew
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By now the surviving Cavs were seriously injured and in dire need of healing, so I felt it was hard to continue the war effort. Thus, I took capitulation from Montezuma. Maybe I should have tried a 10-turn cease fire instead. It didn't occur to me at the time.
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Alexander didn't have Rifles yet, and our relations didn't seem to improve - quite the contrary.
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His main stack is in Athens, although it's not as impressive as the old one he had.
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I had intended to let him live if he gave me Democracy
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Okay then...
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With only Napoleon and me left, diplomacy was out the window. Napoleon had Rifles though...
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There were 2-4 Rifles in every city. I might have been able to take a city or two from him and trigger Domination, but it would be very costly, and I didn't really know how it would go, or if he would counter me hard.

Therefore I made the call to try to wriggle Domination via the Culture slider, considering I was at almost 60% and needed 64%. So I whipped the culture slider up to 70-90%, and started building culture in border cities, with interior cities building wealth. It worked okay, and we slowly crept up in land (population is rarely an issue).

Finally got another GP and started a 3-GP Golden Age.
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In 1806 the threshold is reached :)
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Timeframe
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Graphs (notice how Culture shot up)
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Top Cities
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Units Killed
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And finally, Score...
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Tough to see much from the map so far away, but here it is
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Not quite enough room for all the cities (and it may be impossible to see details with the image-cropping of photobucket), but here is a city overview:
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Fun but quite difficult map. Onwards to the next

(Crud. I had too many images and had to remove some)
 
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