[NFP] April Update Video

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And how about a Hoplite buff, too?

How about... +5 Combat Strength versus other unique units? Or, +5 Combat Strength versus units of civilizations with a stronger army. Just ideas.
Why not that for Gorgo? Sounds like a lot like Thermopylae. :mischief:
I think of Pericles as the city-state leader, so I don't necessarily see the need for Gorgo to get those bonuses.
 

Lord Lakely

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My suggestion for a Gorgo buff:

"+3 Combat Strength for every City-State you are Suzerain of."
.

Become the Suze of five City States, gain +15 Combat Strength... ON ALL UNITS?

Finally those Warrior Monks get to shine.
 

iammaxhailme

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Oh man, 18 pages of comments. I can't read all that. But here's my thoughts, as I go through the video:

- More TSL maps are always welcome, especially a better full-sized earth

- AI using boats better, I hope it's true! I'd love to actually have trouble from Norway or (Elizabethan) England, etc. But a lot of the "we've made AI better at X" have not really turned out to be all that... true... in the last few years

- Trebuchet, nice. Captapult to Bombard was way too long of a gap. I assume line infantry is like this game's version of 5's rifleman... between musket and infantry, I guess?

- Spain buff is welcome, they really needed one. I'm glad both portugal and spain have a decent push towards science; their colonial expansion led to a wealth of new things coming back to Eurasia, which is often not properly represented in civ games (like how England's brand of colonialism is pure warmongering). A straight up "extra 3 gold/2 faith/1 production too trade routes, maybe even more, without even having to try!" is really good, too! I'm excited to do a spanish science victory when the patch comes out, I love going for civs "second best victory" type.

- Khmer, another one that really needed a buff. And goddamn did they get one. Is it just me, or did their missionaries lose martyr, though? But I'm glad to see one of the few tall civs get even better at tall; tall really needs buffs.

- China buff fairly minor, which is fine becuase they werne't as desperate as some other civs.

- Mapuche... a civ I think I've only played once. Honestly, they still don't really match my style, but they'll be even more fearsome than they were before, but as usual, only in very niche situations, so it seems fair. A general production boost makes them more versatile, so maybe I'll go for an unusual victory type with them for fun... they love to be near mountains, so maybe a science game?

- I'm really glad they boosted Canada's tundra farms, which were kind of a waste before. And wow, mounties are now basically double as useful.... two parks. Better expand to those mountains quick and early! I have still yet to win canada's seemingly preferred diplomatic victory, because every time I try, I acidentally win culture first, though. Hope they make culture a bit slower to win.

- Georgia getting straight up faith on kills, but losing the protection war thing? Uhh... not really sure that helps...
 

Duke William of Normandy

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It's very interesting that they moved the "+10 Combat Strength bonus against civilizations that are in a Golden Age" from the Civ Ability to the Leader Ability. Given that it's unlikely for Mapuche to have an alternate leader, what's the point?
Seems like they got rid of the Bonus for Pillaging and decided to move the Combat Strength Ability to Lautaro so that they could make room for the Governor Bonuses. Wise choice on their part.
 
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It's very interesting that they moved the "+10 Combat Strength bonus against civilizations that are in a Golden Age" from the Civ Ability to the Leader Ability. Given that it's unlikely for Mapuche to have an alternate leader, what's the point?

I'm in agreement with Duke William of Normandy. It's probably just to avoid feature bloat on Toqui now that it provides the Mapuche with an improved economic base. Basically, it's just spreading the bonuses more evenly throughout the civ. Tying the combat bonus to the leader is also more on flavor, based on what little information I've read about Lautaro.
 

Duke William of Normandy

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Tying the combat bonus to the leader is also more on flavor, based on what little information I've read about Lautaro.
He was the one who started the rebellion against the Spanish and could have succeeded had he not been betrayed.
 

AriaLyric

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It's very interesting that they moved the "+10 Combat Strength bonus against civilizations that are in a Golden Age" from the Civ Ability to the Leader Ability. Given that it's unlikely for Mapuche to have an alternate leader, what's the point?
Probably just for flavor, since it was Lef-traru (Lautaro) who led the Mapuche so successfully against the Spanish, which is where that ability comes from. Though I did like it better as a civ ability, since the Mapuche were also good at repelling invasions from the Inca.
 

PhoenicianGold

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[Georgia]
Before - Tamar: Glory of the World, Kingdom and Faith
  • +100% Faith for the next 10 turns after declaring a Protectorate War.
  • Each Envoy sent to a city-state of Georgia's majority Religion counts as two Envoys.
After - Tamar: Glory of the World, Kingdom and Faith
  • Gains Faith from combat victories equal to 50% of the Combat Strength of the defeated unit.
  • Each Envoy sent to a city-state of Georgia's majority Religion counts as two Envoys.

I feel like Georgia should have both abilities, i.e. kept the protectorate war on top of the combat bonus. The protectorate war is a fun gimmick; I can understand why the devs might have gotten rid of it because it is too situational, but it still is something that affords Georgia a very unique niche when the situation arises. The combat victory change by contrast just makes Georgia more generic.

[Khmer]
Before - Civilization Ability: Grand Barays
  • Aqueducts provide +3 Faith and +1 Amenity.
  • Farms receive +2 Food if adjacent to an Aqueduct.
After - Civilization Ability: Grand Barays
  • Cities with an Aqueducts receive 1 Amenity and 1 Faith for every Population.
  • Farms receive 2 Food if adjacent to an Aqueduct and 1 Faith if adjacent to a Holy Site.
Before - Jayavarman VII: Monasteries of the King
  • Holy Sites receive provide +2 Food and +1 Housing if adjacent to a river.
  • Building a Holy Site triggers a Culture Bomb, claiming surrounding tiles.
After - Jayavarman VII: Monasteries of the King
  • Holy Sites receive a major adjacency bonus from Rivers, 2 Housing if built on a River, and Food equal to its adjacency bonus.
  • Building a Holy Site triggers a Culture Bomb, claiming surrounding tiles.

Hmmmm tall faith civ...okay I guess. Kind of reduces hope for a Burma civ in some respects but that was true even before Khmer changes.

(maybe Burma will have an ability that preys on high population cities?)

[Mapuche]
Before - Civilization Ability: Toqui
  • All units trained in cities with an established Governor gain +25% combat experience.
  • +10 Combat Strength bonus against civilizations that are in a Golden Age.
After - Civilization Ability: Toqui
  • Cities with an established Governor gain +5% Culture, +5% Production, and +10% combat experience towards all units trained in the city. These numbers are tripled in cities not founded by the Mapuche.
  • All cities within 9 tiles of a city with your Governor gain +4 Loyalty per turn towards your civilization.
Before - Lautaro: Swift Hawk
  • Defeating an enemy unit within the borders of an enemy city causes that city to lose 20 Loyalty.
  • Pillaging a tile within the borders of an enemy city causes that city to lose 5 Loyalty.
After - Lautaro: Swift Hawk
  • +10 Combat Strength when fighting civilizations that are in a Golden or Heroic Age, or Free Cities.
  • Defeating an enemy unit within the borders of an enemy city causes that city to lose 20 Loyalty, or 40 Loyalty if that civilization is in a Golden or Heroic Age.

Oh interesting, these are almost all pure additions. We lose the pillaging bonus but gain governor loyalty (while the combat strength is broadened and moved from Toqui to Swift Hawk). I like it. Never quite agreed with the Mapuche having governor bonuses, but now at least we have some defensive loyalty buffs.

[Spain]
Before - Civilization Ability: Treasure Fleet
  • May form Fleets and Armadas with Mercantilism, instead of Nationalism and Mobilization.
  • Trade Routes between cities on different continents gain +1 Food and +1 Production for domestic Trade Routes, and +6 Gold for international Trade Routes.
  • +2 Loyalty per turn for cities outside their home continent if they have a Mission adjacent to the City Center.
After - Civilization Ability: Treasure Fleet
  • May form Fleets and Armadas with Mercantilism, instead of Nationalism and Mobilization.
  • Trade Routes receive 3 Gold, 2 Faith and 1 Production. Trade Routes between cities on different continents gain triple these yields.
  • Cities not on your original Capital's continent receive 25% extra Production towards Districts and a Builder when founded.

The mission bonus I believe was moved to the mission itself in R&F, so again we aren't really losing much here. Just lost the gold from trade routes in exchange for some help with early infrastructure on foreign continents. Kind of breaks the literal understanding of "treasure fleet," but it does refine Spain away from Portugal and Byzantium design into more of a production-based colonizer. It's a subtle shift with big implications and I'm okay with it.
 

AriaLyric

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Finally those Warrior Monks get to shine.
Now that you mention it, I am praying (badum tsss) that this major rebalance somehow touches on the fact that Warrior Monks are nigh-useless as is. Hoping that they get balanced to be more in line with the power level of Nihangs, insofar as scaling in later eras.
Is it just me, or did their missionaries lose martyr, though?
They did, and the Prasat also lost its additional relic slot, making Poland, Kongo, and kinda Sweden the only remaining civs with any sort of relic bias.
 

Leucarum

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They were awful, in their own bottom tier.

They were a gimmick, completely irrelavent in a multiplayer game but able to get some fast culture wins when it played out right. The only thing I dislike more than their playstyle is their music, but they did have a narrow window of utility and I gather some people enjoyed them.
 
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The mission bonus I believe was moved to the mission itself in R&F, so again we aren't really losing much here. Just lost the gold from trade routes in exchange for some help with early infrastructure on foreign continents. Kind of breaks the literal understanding of "treasure fleet," but it does refine Spain away from Portugal and Byzantium design into more of a production-based colonizer. It's a subtle shift with big implications and I'm okay with it.
Don't worry, I'm still sure that Phillip II will be as zealous as ever. Once they reach exploration/cartography expect mission spam on other continents. :mischief:
 

MrRadar

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Ok, finally got the time to read the changes more closely. Wow :)

Looks like Phillip Ii stops being a junior partner to João Iii in the Treaty of Tordesillas, also no more questions about where this respectable girth of Jayavarman comes from.

And Mapuche are being renamed into the Borg Collective.
 
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Now that you mention it, I am praying (badum tsss) that this major rebalance somehow touches on the fact that Warrior Monks are nigh-useless as is. Hoping that they get balanced to be more in line with the power level of Nihangs, insofar as scaling in later eras.

They did, and the Prasat also lost its additional relic slot, making Poland, Kongo, and kinda Sweden the only remaining civs with any sort of relic bias.

Speaking of which, I'm still holding out for a rebalance on Religion mechanics in general. If they're removing the Relic bonuses from Khmer, I would hope that the remaining ones get some improvements and the system itself is tweaked to be less cheesy.
 

AriaLyric

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Another thing I'm hoping this rebalance accomplishes: adding back the ability to link religious units with military units. Since Spain's getting rebalanced, I want their Conquistadores' combat strength to actually be able to be used without too much tedious clicking. Besides, it'd make me actually consider using the Chaplain promotion for Apostles.
 

Pietato

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You can only flip cities if they have negative loyalty pressure no matter how much loyalty the lose on a specific turn. If a city has +0.1 loyalty pressure then it won't flip no matter how loyalty is loses to due abilities or stuff like the Cultist.

Why did you cut off his post when quoting it, and not respond to basically anything he said?

Mapuche is now clearly designed to pillage and use nearby governors to put cities into negative loyalty, then kill units to flip them. Very finicky but might wok.
 

Phoenix1595

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Impressed so far and I'm looking forward to reworked military units. I'm hoping the Men-at-Arms and Line Infantry will have a few variations for different cultural groups.

I was thinking this too. While I think the line infantry graphic in the video would be fine for most Euro civs, they came across as a bit “tin soldier”-y and culturally off when they were showcasing them with the Mapuche. Maybe it was a placeholder graphic?
 

Duke William of Normandy

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Mapuche is now clearly designed to pillage and use nearby governors to put cities into negative loyalty, then kill units to flip them. Very finicky but might wok.
They don't actually get the Pillage Bonus anymore, so that's just a cherry on top of the flipping strategy.
 
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