[NFP] April Update Video

[FloodPlain]

Wait, is the update out now or what? I was taking a break from Civ.

 

[Linklite]

Wait, is the update out now or what? I was taking a break from Civ.

22nd, so next Thursday.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I really think builder charges were one of the worst "improvements" to Civ5/6.

Interesting, I think they are one of the best improvements! For precisely the reason you say - each charge is a careful cost benefit analysis.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Interesting, I think they are one of the best improvements! For precisely the reason you say - each charge is a careful cost benefit analysis.

Plus, I don't have to keep moving all my 8 Workers around my Empire while they're bored with no work.

 

[bbbt]

I prefer builders to workers, but I'd prefer just infrastructure being built through the city build over all of them. Same cost benefit analysis, less micromanagement.

Though part of me thinks they explicitly want some of the micromanagement in the game. I.e. they don't want everything automated/queued and we're just pressing NEXT TURN through portions of the game.

 

[UWHabs]

I prefer builders to workers, but I'd prefer just infrastructure being built through the city build over all of them. Same cost benefit analysis, less micromanagement.

Though part of me thinks they explicitly want some of the micromanagement in the game. I.e. they don't want everything automated/queued and we're just pressing NEXT TURN through portions of the game.

I wouldn't mind it if the next iteration of the game tile improvements were just purchased in the city screen. I do think the limited build charges are a great cost/benefit, although I do "miss" the old ways where some improvements would take longer to build than others. The current micro does get a little annoying, although a lot of that is that the policy cards are so strong that about 50% of my management of civic policies is making sure that the builder cards are slotted correctly.

 

[Graethyenne]

My problem with almost EVERY unique improvement is that the opportunity cost for building them requires builder charges, so you always have to balance out not just "is this improvement good?" but also "is this improvement worth the production/gold/faith cost I could be using elsewhere?"

I really think builder charges were one of the worst "improvements" to Civ5/6. (Of course, I still want Call to Power 2's "public works" spending system rather than builders at all.)

Would it help/work to give builders in Civs with tile improvement UIs an extra charge? A more complicated (I think) coding solution would be to give them a *special* charge that could only be used for the unique UI and that special charge wouldn't prevent deletion if all the regular build charges were used. This prevents immortal repair builders (though may that's not even a big deal). Maybe the special charge could also be used for CS granted improvements for a slight bump to civs whose UI are builder based.

 

[Linklite]

Would it help/work to give builders in Civs with tile improvement UIs an extra charge? A more complicated (I think) coding solution would be to give them a *special* charge that could only be used for the unique UI and that special charge wouldn't prevent deletion if all the regular build charges were used. This prevents immortal repair builders (though may that's not even a big deal). Maybe the special charge could also be used for CS granted improvements for a slight bump to civs whose UI are builder based.

I think special charges would be more.viable. just giving more charges would just result in me building fewer builders, like Pyramids etc do at the moment.

 

[Kwami]

I prefer builders to workers, but I'd prefer just infrastructure being built through the city build over all of them. Same cost benefit analysis, less micromanagement.

Though part of me thinks they explicitly want some of the micromanagement in the game. I.e. they don't want everything automated/queued and we're just pressing NEXT TURN through portions of the game.

Yes. They said as much when the game was in development and they introduced the builder charge idea and removed the "automate worker" option. Even automation for Scouts is hidden behind an extra click.

 

[Duuk]

I'd be happier just directly spending the (since Civ doesn't have a separate budget for public works... yet). If the devs are completely aghast at that, I'd rather have builders go back to Civ4 style (and maybe have a hard limit of 1 or 2 on the map at once). I have literally never run railroads in any of my games because the idea of building M.E. (which are just less useful builders) at a point in the game where victory should be heading my way is just pointless. When I hit that point in 4 is when I would "automate trade improvements" and let the builders connect everything so I can just ignore it.

Right now the only two options are

1) micromanagement hell. and I play on TINY or DUEL maps. I can't imagine the micromanagement on a huge or even large map.
2) Just accept that at a certain point improvements aren't worth the annoyance factor.

I will freely admit I am the ultra-casual player that just wants to sit down and veg out and play. If I want complex, time consuming micromanagement I'll get my friends together and we'll play Twilight Imperium or Avalon Hill's Civilization.

 

[Pietato]

1) micromanagement hell. and I play on TINY or DUEL maps. I can't imagine the micromanagement on a huge or even large map.

Wow. So the 5 improvements you have to do all game incense you?

Moderator Action: Please do not troll the forums. leif

 

[aieeegrunt]

My problem with almost EVERY unique improvement is that the opportunity cost for building them requires builder charges, so you always have to balance out not just "is this improvement good?" but also "is this improvement worth the production/gold/faith cost I could be using elsewhere?"

I really think builder charges were one of the worst "improvements" to Civ5/6. (Of course, I still want Call to Power 2's "public works" spending system rather than builders at all.)

Oh absolutly. Moving workers around is such tedious busywork

Yes. They said as much when the game was in development and they introduced the builder charge idea and removed the "automate worker" option. Even automation for Scouts is hidden behind an extra click.

What the actual...what kind of logic is this?

“The game isn’t annoying the player enough to keep his attention”

 

[Linklite]

Oh absolutly. Moving workers around is such tedious busywork



What the actual...what kind of logic is this?

“The game isn’t annoying the player enough to keep his attention”

Makes sense, though. If you could queue up everything, you probably would do so. While that might be useful endgame, for midgame and especially early game it would ruin the experience. You'd queue things up and then just be sitting there clicking next turn to no end. The forums would be awash with complaints that Civ VI is 95% clicking next turn.

Now, I'll say that they're overlaying their hand with the scout thing, I think that's just them trying to tidy up the menu, although I do think it's more logical to have that button out front. However, I think they have a point in that it is probably the reason why you can only queue what's available to build now - I can't tell it to build a CH, a market and then a trader, and I could forget about that city for 30 turns. That's probably an easy fix, but they don't want me to only be paying attention to each city once every few dozen turns because the game would turn into a "next turn" fest very quickly.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Builder busywork is worse in civ 6, because not only do you have to move them around to where they make the improvements, you ALSO have to manage their chargers and manage them in your city's build queue etc. I liked civ 5's workers more.

 

[Birch617]

Wait, the Prasat lost its ability to give Missionaries the free martyr promotion? i hope not it was one of my fave part of the Khmer

 

[GenyaArikado]

Wait, the Prasat lost its ability to give Missionaries the free martyr promotion? i hope not it was one of my fave part of the Khmer

It did, start getting over it

 

[fy00sh]

Wait, the Prasat lost its ability to give Missionaries the free martyr promotion? i hope not it was one of my fave part of the Khmer

Mine too, but I think the new Khmer is way better than the old one. I'm just hoping they don't remove Poland's relic bonuses, and allow another civ to have a relic focus other than Kongo, Poland, and kinda Sweden. Maybe Russia?

 

[DWilson]

The new ability is better. You're not obligated to suicide religious units, and I suspect it's more potent as well. It also ties into the Khmer population focused design much more effectively.

 

[Kwami]

Mine too, but I think the new Khmer is way better than the old one. I'm just hoping they don't remove Poland's relic bonuses, and allow another civ to have a relic focus other than Kongo, Poland, and kinda Sweden. Maybe Russia?

Russia doesn't need more anything. They're already crazy good.

 

[fy00sh]

Russia doesn't need more anything. They're already crazy good.

Ideally, I'd give Russia bonuses to Relics (not sure if it's that historical but it fits for religion-heavy culture victories) and also massively tone down their monopoly on GWAMs. I can totally see Russia getting a huge rework.