[NFP] April Update Video

[Menocchio]

I hope Relics are overhauled entirely, or at least can be earned from having religious units condemned rather than only through theological combat. In my view it should be the opposite: Apostles/missionaries should by default have a chance on death to make a Relic if they are condemned by a military unit. Theological combat, then, would function as a method of religious offense and defense that avoids giving your opponent free faith and tourism for losing units. Right now it is very simple to stop a religious proselytizer only by declaring war on them and stomping their religious units. This would also have the side effect of making religious victories finally viable in competitive multiplayer, for people who enjoy that.

 

[Birch617]

The new ability is better. You're not obligated to suicide religious units, and I suspect it's more potent as well. It also ties into the Khmer population focused design much more effectively.

I agree that the Prasat changes fit more with the High population stuff, is just that the Relic ability allowed you to play a different style of cultural victory if you picked your beliefs rigth, it just gave a lot of flexibility to the civ imo.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ideally, I'd give Russia bonuses to Relics (not sure if it's that historical but it fits for religion-heavy culture victories) and also massively tone down their monopoly on GWAMs. I can totally see Russia getting a huge rework.

Eastern Orthodoxy was huge into relics so I think it would fit the Lavra. Personally I'd love the idea of instead of great people adding a free tile to the city with a Lavra they create a relic instead.

 

[Kwami]

I agree that the Prasat changes fit more with the High population stuff, is just that the Relic ability allowed you to play a different style of cultural victory if you picked your beliefs rigth, it just gave a lot of flexibility to the civ imo.

On the contrary, it gave them almost no flexibility. You basically had to pick the right beliefs and go for a culture victory through relics or else you were missing out on a big part of Khmer's kit. The new abilities are more flexible, for sure.

Besides, it's easy to get relics these days if you enable some of the optional modes. You can still win through reliquaries pretty quickly!

 

[Birch617]

On the contrary, it gave them almost no flexibility. You basically had to pick the right beliefs and go for a culture victory through relics or else you were missing out on a big part of Khmer's kit. The new abilities are more flexible, for sure.

Besides, it's easy to get relics these days if you enable some of the optional modes. You can still win through reliquaries pretty quickly!

Gave you flexibility when wanting to go for a different type of victory; if you went for a cultural victory you would adjust your beliefs to buff your ability to get relic for a cheaper cost, but if you were going for a scientific victory, you prolly would never focus on getting that much relics but would focus on the tall Khmer cities, it gave flexibility in victory condition, of course if you only play cultural Khmer you would do the same strategy of sacrificing missionaries on all games.

 

[Kwami]

Gave you flexibility when wanting to go for a different type of victory; if you went for a cultural victory you would adjust your beliefs to buff your ability to get relic for a cheaper cost, but if you were going for a scientific victory, you prolly would never focus on getting that much relics but would focus on the tall Khmer cities, it gave flexibility in victory condition, of course if you only play cultural Khmer you would do the same strategy of sacrificing missionaries on all games.

And how does removing the relics somehow make them less flexible for non-culture victories? If anything, the extra culture and faith from the changes makes those other victory types easier.

 

[Menocchio]

With the absurd amount of Faith the reworked Khmer will be able to accumulate, going for a Relic-based gameplay is still perfectly viable. You need a particular excess of Faith in order to afford piles of Apostles, which Khmer will have, and the tourism bonuses from Prasats will encourage putting a Holy Site in every single city for even more Faith.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Gave you flexibility when wanting to go for a different type of victory; if you went for a cultural victory you would adjust your beliefs to buff your ability to get relic for a cheaper cost, but if you were going for a scientific victory, you prolly would never focus on getting that much relics but would focus on the tall Khmer cities, it gave flexibility in victory condition, of course if you only play cultural Khmer you would do the same strategy of sacrificing missionaries on all games.

How is relics relevant to non-religious and cultural victories?

 

[kryat]

One possibility that I haven’t seen discussed in all of this talk about the patch.... while it appears the weakest civs are getting buffed, is there a possibility the nerf hammer may come down on some of the strongest? I can’t remember them really doing that to anyone except Vicky back in the days of yore.

 

[InsidiousMage]

One possibility that I haven’t seen discussed in all of this talk about the patch.... while it appears the weakest civs are getting buffed, is there a possibility the nerf hammer may come down on some of the strongest? I can’t remember them really doing that to anyone except Vicky back in the days of yore.

Given that they have nerfed Gran Colombia already I doubt it since if Firaxis did consider something too good they've had plenty of time to change it.

 

[Linklite]

One possibility that I haven’t seen discussed in all of this talk about the patch.... while it appears the weakest civs are getting buffed, is there a possibility the nerf hammer may come down on some of the strongest? I can’t remember them really doing that to anyone except Vicky back in the days of yore.

Possibility? Naturally, there always is. I think it unlikely to be common. A lot of the NFP civs were quite powerful, probably to make them attractive to buy as DLCs. This caused problems with existing civs, because they were less powerful, as a rule. That is probably what prompted the rebalanced. They can't really nerf the NFP civs (those who bought them for those reasons would go nuts, I would in their situation), so they're boosting the other ones. Assuming they're not touching NFP, only 9 other civs (or fewer) are not being touched, which supports my hypothesis.

Maybe one or two might get a nerf (I'm wondering after all the complaining whether Babylon will get a further malus, or perhaps be pushed further into it's playstyle, reduced science but increased production or something), but most will be either boosts or adjustments to make their bonuses more coherent, IMO. I don't think there'll be any straight up nerfs, they'll be in the form of adjustments.

 

[Haig]

One possibility that I haven’t seen discussed in all of this talk about the patch.... while it appears the weakest civs are getting buffed, is there a possibility the nerf hammer may come down on some of the strongest? I can’t remember them really doing that to anyone except Vicky back in the days of yore.

I think they have really looked at fans' request for this patch, like the new much-wanted units (line infantry, trebuchet etc) and reworks for Khmer and Mapuche.

I am sure they acknowledge that people think Korea for example is pretty op, so I would guess they tone it down a bit or rework it into something more interesting.

I personally enjoy Korea but it is a straightforward civ to play so I wouldn't mind some rework.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I think they have really looked at fans' request for this patch, like the new much-wanted units (line infantry, trebuchet etc) and reworks for Khmer and Mapuche.

I am sure they acknowledge that people think Korea for example is pretty op, so I would guess they tone it down a bit or rework it into something more interesting.

I personally enjoy Korea but it is a straightforward civ to play so I wouldn't mind some rework.

Let Korea have its CA that doesn't rely on UD.

 

[Unmitigated Gaul]

I think the Khmer and Spain changes were perfect.

The civs I have been thinking about most since then are from the original-

Scythia- make the kurgan more valuable (reduce the gold cost of units trained in a city with a kurgan?), let Saka Archers move after attacking

India- let Varus do full damage to city walls, make the stepwell more valuable by boosting adjacent farms food production.

Kongo- add faith generation to the Nkisi ability to make it easier to get parks

Russia- Peters trade route ability kind of stinks because the Civ is so strong. Replace that with a writing slot in the lavra.

 

[enKage]

Oh yes yes, in this balance patch let us do Russia even stronger, if Lavra and free land is not enough, let us replace weak Peter's ability with sth spectacular.

The same appleis to Scytia. Tomyris is already top tier, so let us replace the weakest part of set with sth very strong. Why not

 

[Noble Zarkon]

The new ability is better.

Maybe so but not as fun and unique! I hope the Martyr ability on missionaries goes to someone else, maybe Poland?

 

[oSiyeza]

Interesting, I think they are one of the best improvements! For precisely the reason you say - each charge is a careful cost benefit analysis.

Buider actions should just cost money, or resources and just spare the time of constantly building and moving new units for no reason. Pointless repetition is not a game system, I just hope Fxs would understand this.

And no talk about engineers, archeologists, or the horrible tediousness of repairs or the worst of all religious units charge based victory.

Civilization should just get rid of charges. The only think they do is increase the clicks and pad the duration of the game. Im surprised they did not use charges for spies or traders. Just No.

 

[Unmitigated Gaul]

Oh yes yes, in this balance patch let us do Russia even stronger, if Lavra and free land is not enough, let us replace weak Peter's ability with sth spectacular.

The same appleis to Scytia. Tomyris is already top tier, so let us replace the weakest part of set with sth very strong. Why not

When you’re stacking them up against GC and other NFP civs they have room to be stronger.

I actually think Scythia wouldnt get much stronger with this change, but would be a lot more fun if Saka Archers and Kurgans had a use beyond era score.

Peters might be over the top but the leader ability as constructed is useless. I think it would be nice and help deal with the amazing great writer overflow that the humans and AI both have when playing Peter

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I think it would be nice and help deal with the amazing great writer overflow that the humans and AI both have when playing Peter

It would be nice yes, but I'd prefer the devs address the source of the problem (the Lavra's GP points) rather than accommodate for it.

 

[Pitohui]

That Curtin proposal would screw him immediately on certain (or many) maps.

Eh,3 Appeal is not too hard to get these days with preserves.Maybe only specialty districts or reduce the min.Appeal to 2 if it’s found to be too restrictive.