Are military discounts ridiculous?

[MobBoss]

I disagree. Being in military right now, I never realized how tiring grunt life is. I never realized how tiring crawling is when you're wearing full combat gear. Marching in CBRN protection was one of the most uncomfortable experiences in my life, and I can't imagine someone actually fighting wrapped in that condom suit. There are many more comfortable jobs in an Army than grunt, which have it easier.

What makes you think that even the more comfortable jobs dont do that kind of training? I have done PT in full MOPP gear plenty of times. It truely sucks too.

@Jolly. Nice google. Not quite accurate, but pretty close.

 

[Patroklos]

I disagree. Being in military right now, I never realized how tiring grunt life is. I never realized how tiring crawling is when you're wearing full combat gear. Marching in CBRN protection was one of the most uncomfortable experiences in my life, and I can't imagine someone actually fighting wrapped in that condom suit. There are many more comfortable jobs in an Army than grunt, which have it easier.

Physically, that is obviously true (with a few exceptions). But I believe Pat was getting into the mental aspects of the job, which many staff face, knowing that their decisions can affect a multitude of lives, American, NATO, Afghan, and anybody else.

Correct. Just because something is physically taxing does not mean it is hard, or if something physically taxing is hard does not mean it is the only way something can be hard.

An orderly spends his days hefting around patients and equipment while a brain surgeon just uses a few tiny tools, yet I would say both of their jobs are hard in differnet ways.

There is also a tendancy amoungst "grunts" to assume because they do something cool it somehow makes it more important or hard. The simple fact is most of the grunts I have met don't have the maturity or professionalism to survive doing an important job that doesn't stoke their need for coolness. Most achieve that professionalism and maturity as they progress in their career (or they wash out), because as you move up and begin to see the big picture you appreciate all the pieces.

 

[Flying Pig]

What makes you think that even the more comfortable jobs dont do that kind of training? I have done PT in full MOPP gear plenty of times. It truely sucks too.

@Jolly. Nice google. Not quite accurate, but pretty close.

Being a rear-liner you did it in twice the time with a break in between mind

Banter aside: the infantry and other teeth arms are soldiering at its purest. However, to say that you are more or less important than any other capbadge is short-sighted to say the least; yes the sappers would be redundant without an infantry to support, but where would you be if you needed to move a battalion over a river without them? However the teeth have the jobs that almost everyone secretly wishes they'd put in the training or had the balls to sign up for originally.

There is also a tendancy amoungst "grunts" to assume because they do something cool it somehow makes it more important or hard. The simple fact is most of the grunts I have met don't have the maturity or professionalism to survive doing an important job that doesn't stoke their need for coolness. Most achieve that professionalism and maturity as they progress in their career (or they wash out), because as you move up and begin to see the big picture you appreciate all the pieces.

Speaketh staff college here, but this is intentional in a way; we establish the cap-badge as a 'tribe' and so, because they get into fights with others about who's best and so on, it becomes a tight-knit community. You only have to walk into anything called 'pegasus bar' with an airborne tatoo to be offered free drinks. This closeness makes each regiment far more effective in combat situations although it can cause problems when one unit has responsibility for another - for example, 1 RIFLES under 3 Commando Brigade command in Afghanistan recently.

 

[Rashiminos]

To answer the OP: Not in the "free market," no.

 

[MobBoss]

Being a rear-liner you did it in twice the time with a break in between mind

My point was this FP. In the last years, during this war, training for even the non-combat arms jobs in the military has gotten vastly closer to the combat arms training than it was when I first got into the Army 23 years ago. Today, even non-combat MOS train in clearing buildings, combatives, convoy ops, etc. for the simple reason anyone in the military could end up in a situation in todays world where those skills could save yours or others lives.

Casualtiies in these conflicts have also run way across the board. IEDs care little what your MOS is.

 

[Flying Pig]

My point was this FP. In the last years, during this war, training for even the non-combat arms jobs in the military has gotten vastly closer to the combat arms training than it was when I first got into the Army 23 years ago. Today, even non-combat MOS train in clearing buildings, combatives, convoy ops, etc. for the simple reason anyone in the military could end up in a situation in todays world where those skills could save yours or others lives.

Casualtiies in these conflicts have also run way across the board. IEDs care little what your MOS is.

Please don't take me seriously on that. You're never going to escape cap-badge banter, especially not from someone who's unit mock other infantry for being girly. Absolutely, what you're saying is correct and anyone thinking of seriously believing the mockery needs to consider it. I'm not saying there are no salad dodgers in the REME, but it's definitly not the case that non-teeth arms aren't up to the standard - in the UK, what we call Combat Support Arms are easily as good as the infantry of most other countries (we generally say, although this is up for debate, that a Royal Engineer is worth a US infantryman, a Rifleman is worth a Marine and a Para is worth at least a battalion... in beer costs that is)

 

[bhsup]

Xanik, this will probably REALLY chap your hide!!! I'll definitely be voting for this one. I don't like the exemption for Iraq and Afghanistan, though. Hopefully get that fixed later if it passes in November, which I cannot fathom it NOT passing.

Disabled POWs might get tax break in Missouri

Amendment 2 on the November ballot will ask millions of Missouri voters to exempt disabled former prisoners of war from paying property taxes on their homes. Proponents call the measure a tangible token of thanks to service members who endured unimaginable hardship.

If approved, however, the exemption would affect about 100 ex-POWs living in Missouri and couldn't be used by prisoners during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[cardgame]

Sounds cool to me.

 

[capslock]

Well, typical POG talk from the POGs, no surprise. Just furthering stereotypes, especially Mobboss, lol.

Its not about not recognizing contributions of others or disrespecting non combat MOS's (unless you watch them try to insert a magazine backwards, then its OK). Its about hardship. Yes, we are a team and everyone matters, but grunts bear a hugely disporportionate amount of the hardship, especially in the current conflicts. To civilians, though, we all wear the same uni and get the same praise (sometimes more, promotions and awards all come slower in the infantry). Some dudes who have spent 8% of their lives in combat zones get a bit disgruntled about that. Not to mention, discipline, uniformity, physical fitness, etc are all much tighter in an infantry unit than anything else (except maybe on certain ships) so when you are exposed to other units who are a bit more lax, there is a culture clash. So, maybe calling names and getting all defensive isn't the right approach? Have a bit of understanding. POG isn't necesarily an insult, just a descriptor. Just like "grunt" is.

 

[JollyRoger]

@Jolly. Nice google. Not quite accurate, but pretty close.

Google? I was quoting the Gospel of Joe the Plumber, circa 2005.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, typical POG talk from the POGs, no surprise. Just furthering stereotypes, especially Mobboss, lol.

Uhm. The same could be said of the lower GT score crowd. If you want to talk sterotypes, there are more than enough to go around there as well.

Its not about not recognizing contributions of others or disrespecting non combat MOS's (unless you watch them try to insert a magazine backwards, then its OK). Its about hardship.

Hardship? Nah, I tend to think its more about risk. Anyones job can be hard, whether physically or mentally. Not everyone has the same risk.

Yes, we are a team and everyone matters, but grunts bear a hugely disporportionate amount of the hardship, especially in the current conflicts.

And they get rewarded for it, via quicker promotions, bonus's, etc. etc.

To civilians, though, we all wear the same uni and get the same praise (sometimes more, promotions and awards all come slower in the infantry).

Hogwash. Infantry and other combat arms jobs have always had some of the fastest promotion tracks in the military and they always have the biggest bonus' for re-enlistments.

Some dudes who have spent 8% of their lives in combat zones get a bit disgruntled about that.

8%? Thats an odd percentage. But seriously, what have they got to be disgruntled about?

Not to mention, discipline, uniformity, physical fitness, etc are all much tighter in an infantry unit than anything else (except maybe on certain ships) so when you are exposed to other units who are a bit more lax, there is a culture clash. So, maybe calling names and getting all defensive isn't the right approach? Have a bit of understanding. POG isn't necesarily an insult, just a descriptor. Just like "grunt" is.

I think maybe you need to re-read the thread and see where/how all this started.

 

[Immortal Ace]

Absolutely.

Yes, lets reward a bunch of racists and criminals who falsely protect 'freedom'. What a load of crap.

How many times has the US military been used against freedom?

Moderator Action: Trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Patroklos]

Thank you Immortal Ace. You use of the word "racist" there proves my point in several currently active threads. Can I link your post in them?

 

[Flying Pig]

Well, typical POG talk from the POGs, no surprise. Just furthering stereotypes, especially Mobboss, lol.

Its not about not recognizing contributions of others or disrespecting non combat MOS's (unless you watch them try to insert a magazine backwards, then its OK). Its about hardship. Yes, we are a team and everyone matters, but grunts bear a hugely disporportionate amount of the hardship, especially in the current conflicts. To civilians, though, we all wear the same uni and get the same praise (sometimes more, promotions and awards all come slower in the infantry). Some dudes who have spent 8% of their lives in combat zones get a bit disgruntled about that. Not to mention, discipline, uniformity, physical fitness, etc are all much tighter in an infantry unit than anything else (except maybe on certain ships) so when you are exposed to other units who are a bit more lax, there is a culture clash. So, maybe calling names and getting all defensive isn't the right approach? Have a bit of understanding. POG isn't necesarily an insult, just a descriptor. Just like "grunt" is.

Also worth saying. For all that I respect the Sappers in combat, I respect them like that because I know that their job is to build bridges, clear mines and blow things up. If they were roled as paratroopers and so were supposed to be as good at perforating their fellow men as the gods from the sky, I would have a very different view of them... what was 2 Platoon at C Coy back in the seventies springs to mind... bunch of salad dodgers one and all.

REMFs (no disrespect conveyed; same as STAB nowadays) need to accept that yes, they can be respected as soldiers by the teeth arms, but only because the teeth arms acknowledge that they are soldiering 'on top of' their trade. Not even a sapper platoon is worth anything close to an infantry equivalent when it comes to doing what we do best.

And they get rewarded for it, via quicker promotions, bonus's, etc. etc.

Actually a line infantryman (non parachute, commando etc) without any courses doesn't get any sort of trade pay, whereas everyone in most of the service support arms has the same salary plus the money they're paid for having extra skills. Parachute and dagger pay are available to anyone in all arms who is able to earn them. Military Policemen, HR Wallahs and the Intelligence Corps automatically recieve the rank of Lance Corporal (normally two years' work and a course) upon joining. Although from a promotion point of view, the Chiefs of the General Staff are nearly always teeth arms (disproportionately Yorkshiremen, as well)