Are the Warrant Officer ranks obsolete?

[Dumanios]

I voted for all of them.

 

[Shylock]

As I have zero military experience except for a semestre in JROTC (It was that or PE), I vote downtown.

 

[otago]

They're definitly worth keeping around. Generally, their job nowadays is to yell 'get yer 'ead own, sir!' at the nearest suicidal second-lieutenant, or to scare the new recruits. If they were taken out, you would need a new NCO rank, and I think being the RSM and getting called sir is something for you to aspire to as a soldier. Considering the sort of prospects an officer can have, it's only fair to give the most important job in the regiment (regardless of what the brass say) to a trooper

Very useful with lazy junior officers who did not return salutes,
just salute some subaltern when the RSM is around and if it is not returned smartly the RSM will take him aside to tell him the error of his ways
Oh, how to get one's right arm ripped off and then beaten with the same, just salute a CSM or RSM.

 

[otago]

The sergeant in charge of a company is a 1SG (First Sergeant) and is an E-8. E-9 NCOs come in two flavors, Sergeant Major and Command Sergeant Major, and are typically command advisors at the Bn and Bde (or higher) levels and are the most senior of NCOs around.

Hmm, is there any job done by a US Warrant officer which could not be done by a US Sergeant Major of say twenty years experience in the same speciality ?

 

[Flying Pig]

Very useful with lazy junior officers who did not return salutes,
just salute some subaltern when the RSM is around and if it is not returned smartly the RSM will take him aside to tell him the error of his ways
Oh, how to get one's right arm ripped off and then beaten with the same, just salute a CSM or RSM.

That's why I always say that the RSM is the second-highest rank in the regiment, because no officer apart from the OC is going to cross him, ever. They do serve a role - all the new officers who come out of civvy street juist get one look from RSM and they fall into line.

BTW; you're the only person I know who still says 'subaltern'

 

[Patroklos]

Hmm, is there any job done by a US Warrant officer which could not be done by a US Sergeant Major of say twenty years experience in the same speciality ?

In the US military warrant officers don't do enlisted jobs, they do Junior Officer jobs. Its like a cheat to get a 25 year veteran into a first year officer job. He may be a bit overqualified, but sometimes it pays to have experiance at those levels. It should be remembers 2LT are not platoon leaders because they make the best platoon leaders, but rather because they have to start somewhere.

Platoon leader is an odd position that way, it is occupied by either an overqualified or underqualified person usually, however what it really needs is either a rating or an officer in the mid career. Of course we can't do that, because to develope either CSMs or field grade officers you have to follow a career track that doesn't allow for that.

 

[Flying Pig]

With us, you can miss out everything after the word 'leaders' and add in 'because they're useless'. Over here, they just watch and learn

 

[Patroklos]

That is their job, to watch and learn. It is also their job to stand their and take the ass chewing from the chain of command when one of their senior enlisted prima donnas screws things up but yet the LT is still responsible

 

[otago]

That's why I always say that the RSM is the second-highest rank in the regiment, because no officer apart from the OC is going to cross him, ever. They do serve a role - all the new officers who come out of civvy street juist get one look from RSM and they fall into line.

BTW; you're the only person I know who still says 'subaltern'

Subaltern, my age showing

 

[otago]

That is their job, to watch and learn. It is also their job to stand their and take the ass chewing from the chain of command when one of their senior enlisted prima donnas screws things up but yet the LT is still responsible

Be interesting to see how a brand new LT would get on as the boss of a platoon up against another platoon with a Corporal of six years experience in charge and with only Lance Corporals as the other NCOs in both platoons.

 

[capslock]

It seems to me that they have long outlived their original function, which was to recognize the special contributions of certain enlisted specialists without compromising the class barrier that made officers officers and crew crew.

This is still pretty much their role, at least in the USMC. Warrant Officers are specialists in their field, but don't have a college degree usually, so can't be commissioned. Gunners are some of the most valuable officers in the Corps knowledge wise.

 

[MobBoss]

Hmm, is there any job done by a US Warrant officer which could not be done by a US Sergeant Major of say twenty years experience in the same speciality ?

Well, they primarily have different job emphasis. Sergeants Major are advocates and mentors for lower enlisted troops while also advising commanders at the Bn/Bde level or higher. They are more or less supervisory in the specialities and arent really 'hands on' anymore. Warrants on the other hand remain experts in their respective technical jobs for pretty much their career.

For example, a Warrant officer would be a pilot for a helicopter. A Sergeant Major? Not so much.

This is still pretty much their role, at least in the USMC. Warrant Officers are specialists in their field, but don't have a college degree usually, so can't be commissioned. Gunners are some of the most valuable officers in the Corps knowledge wise.

Uhm....Chief Warrant Officers in the US military (CW2) and above are indeed commissioned by the President as officers in the military and take the same oath as Lts through General officers. In fact, isnt in the Marines a CW2 referred to as a 'commissioned warrant officer' as opposed to being called a 'chief warrant officer' in the Army?

Its ok...your still new at it.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This is still pretty much their role, at least in the USMC. Warrant Officers are specialists in their field, but don't have a college degree usually, so can't be commissioned. Gunners are some of the most valuable officers in the Corps knowledge wise.

IIRC much of the Marines' helicopter pilots are warrant officers, are they not? Interesting, as I think the job requires a commission in the Navy.

 

[Masada]

They're definitly worth keeping around. Generally, their job nowadays is to yell 'get yer 'ead own, sir!' at the nearest suicidal second-lieutenant, or to scare the new recruits.

That's basically what I gather Dad did for the better part of his naval career.

 

[capslock]

IIRC much of the Marines' helicopter pilots are warrant officers, are they not? Interesting, as I think the job requires a commission in the Navy.

Nope. Pilots have to go through one of the commissioning programs (OCS or the USNA) and get a flight contract. They used to fly helos in the army, I'm not sure anymore. Mobboss would know.

@Mobboss, they are Chief Warrant Officers. But you are right that they are commissioned when they get promoted to CWO2. Warrant Officers (WO) aren't commissioned though.

 

[bhsup]

Do you guys think the CW-5 rank needed to be added? My brother (Apache pilot, CW-4) is of the personal opinion that it's really an unnecessary rank.

 

[MobBoss]

Do you guys think the CW-5 rank needed to be added? My brother (Apache pilot, CW-4) is of the personal opinion that it's really an unnecessary rank.

I think it got added for the only reason Warrant Officers write the regulations.

 

[Speedo]

If anything warrant programs should be expanded. The AF and USN are both extremely bloated with pilots -required to be officers- who have no real interest in leadership or command. Modern helos are just as complex as aircraft (and generally much more difficult to fly), but somehow the Army manages to get along fine without officers as pilots.

 

[Flying Pig]

Subaltern, my age showing

I bet I'm older than you - but I'm a squaddie at heart so we had other names, but I don't think the mods would be happy with them.

 

[Patroklos]

IIRC much of the Marines' helicopter pilots are warrant officers, are they not? Interesting, as I think the job requires a commission in the Navy.

Naval aviation (Marines and Navy) still only uses regular officers as pilots, but there is a trial program underway as we speak to evaluate letting warrants go to flight school.

In the army about a quarter of helo pilots are warrants.