Enjoying your mods so far but I can't seem to get this one working 100%.
Crossbowmen I upgrade to Riflemen in my own territory (and they remain there in Alert mode forever more) still keep their ranged promotions and don't swap to melee.
I should note that I edited your mod slightly since I only wanted some of the changes. So what I kept is the modinfo, the lua and the xml for the swap. Edited the modinfo accordingly to only look for these 2 files. Didn't change the md5 entry as this never seemd to make a difference anyway.
@Tomice
Without disabling any mods... did you try deleting your Civ V cache? I realized that might be why values are "stuck" if you haven't cleared it.
It didn't help, the value of walled cities was still stuck around 50, making legions splatter at their walls, archers not doing any damage at all and ballistae doing one lousy damage...
I reinstalled and started anew.
BTW, is it normal that capitals have double base defence?
@Tomice
City defense values don't get updated automatically until something happens to change then. You should try ungarrisoning/garrisoning troops. I've had to do that when I modded changes sometimes, and then I see a sudden jump.
Jwallstone, thx for the info! Sadly, I can't influence the AI I'm besieging right now. I'll rather restart a clean game than hoping that the bug disappears.
New thought: isn't it a little bizarre that helicopters can't fly over water, and instead embark like land units? I don't suppose something could be modded up to let them hover over water like they hover over mountains? I realize they shouldn't have trans-Atlantic range and all, but embarking to cross 1-2 hex gaps seems bizarre...
New thought: isn't it a little bizarre that helicopters can't fly over water, and instead embark like land units? I don't suppose something could be modded up to let them hover over water like they hover over mountains? I realize they shouldn't have trans-Atlantic range and all, but embarking to cross 1-2 hex gaps seems bizarre...
New thought: isn't it a little bizarre that helicopters can't fly over water, and instead embark like land units? I don't suppose something could be modded up to let them hover over water like they hover over mountains? I realize they shouldn't have trans-Atlantic range and all, but embarking to cross 1-2 hex gaps seems bizarre...
No more bizarre than embarked helicopters being able to pass through ice hexes like subs! Sounds like a good idea that will require C++ access (if it's even possible then).
There doesn't appear to be anything in the xml that would allow helicopters to move over coastal tiles. Domains are hardcoded, the only thing accessible is enabling movement through impassable.
@civcivv
I identified and fixed a problem with the promotion swapping. It'll work properly in the next version.
@jwallstone
Ah, it makes sense the game only updates city defenses when something triggers it.
Good to hear, look forward to the next version. If you can let me know how to fix it manually though in the meantime I'd much appreciate it
Something I wanted to comment regarding carried over promotions. Since Longbows get +1 Range and this won't work when they turn into Rifles, what would be an equivalent that could be bestowed upon them? I was thinking +1 movement (mobility), but open to ideas.
Btw, Battleship description is that they are the strongest naval unit in the game. However making them upgrade to missile cruisers reduces their ranged strength, i.e. makes them weaker.
civcivv has a point there. Battleship is 6032, Missile cruiser is 6025. I think their function is distinct enough that they shouldn't be upgrading to each other.
Oddly enough the stats for these in the Civ5 manual are completely different:
Battleship is 4032, Missile cruiser 7540. Maybe Thal looked at those? Incidentally, they have that missile cruiser priced at only 320 production! It's 520 in game...
There doesn't appear to be anything in the xml that would allow helicopters to move over coastal tiles. Domains are hardcoded, the only thing accessible is enabling movement through impassable.
Actually, I hacked at it for some time anyways, and came surprisingly close to making it work. First, I added the flags CanMoveAllTerrain and HoveringUnit to the PROMOTION_HOVERING_UNIT. It already gives the CanMoveImpassable flag. This didn't make any difference - helicopters still embarked. So then I stripped them of the Embarkation promotion. This allows them to fly over water! They no longer embark, and thus they will fly over coastal water. Most remarkably, there is even a nice animation of a circular wave turbulence in the water below. They actually have the art for it! Unfortunately, for some reason, they can't enter ocean tiles in this setup. I didn't like that much, although it does keep them from crossing continents, they'd be stuck on the landmass where they are built, since they can no longer embark. Nothing I tried would make them able to enter the oceans. I tried giving them the PROMOTION_OCEAN_IMPASSABLE_UNTIL_ASTRONOMY for example, but that's ignored. I tried changing the domain to AIR, but that totally screws things up if they're allowed to move. I tried giving them AMBPHIBIOUS, but that doesn't affect movement, only combat strength. I guess if you thought restricting them to coastal hexes was desirable, this might be good enough. But I never it tested them in combat while over water, I'm not sure that would even work right. Also, being land units, anti-air doesn't get bonuses against them, which is silly. Here's the code I have if anyone wants to play around with it:
Final thought: I think we should give helicopters a free amphibious promotion anyways. Right now they're ordinary land units and penalized when attacking across rivers and from water, which is silly. It would at least give them a slight edge when dis-embarking.
@Seek: No actually, I never thought of that, I was so focused on figuring out why they couldn't enter Ocean tiles. That's a great idea! Looks like what controls cargo on carriers is being designated <Special>SPECIALUNIT_FIGHTER</Special>, which can be tried on a chopper. If that works, it might be quite viable to leave them on coasts, I'll go try it.
Actually, I hacked at it for some time anyways, and came surprisingly close to making it work. First, I added the flags CanMoveAllTerrain and HoveringUnit to the PROMOTION_HOVERING_UNIT. It already gives the CanMoveImpassable flag. This didn't make any difference - helicopters still embarked. So then I stripped them of the Embarkation promotion. This allows them to fly over water! They no longer embark, and thus they will fly over coastal water. Most remarkably, there is even a nice animation of a circular wave turbulence in the water below. They actually have the art for it! Unfortunately, for some reason, they can't enter ocean tiles in this setup. I didn't like that much, although it does keep them from crossing continents, they'd be stuck on the landmass where they are built, since they can no longer embark. Nothing I tried would make them able to enter the oceans. I tried giving them the PROMOTION_OCEAN_IMPASSABLE_UNTIL_ASTRONOMY for example, but that's ignored. I tried changing the domain to AIR, but that totally screws things up if they're allowed to move. I tried giving them AMBPHIBIOUS, but that doesn't affect movement, only combat strength. I guess if you thought restricting them to coastal hexes was desirable, this might be good enough. But I never it tested them in combat while over water, I'm not sure that would even work right. Also, being land units, anti-air doesn't get bonuses against them, which is silly. Here's the code I have if anyone wants to play around with it:
Final thought: I think we should give helicopters a free amphibious promotion anyways. Right now they're ordinary land units and penalized when attacking across rivers and from water, which is silly. It would at least give them a slight edge when dis-embarking.
Great job! I think what you've acomplished is almost the ideal for helicopters. It really makes no sense to make them able to cross oceans, in my opinion, but to fly over coast and traverse to another close continent (like through England and France, or through Alaska and Russia, to give a few real world examples) is something that they should be able to do. To achieve the ideal setting, they should embark over ocean, or it would be nice if they could be loaded into carriers to make the cross over oceans.
I really miss the "transport" unit type for transporting troops. Makes little sense that troops are transported independently and without protection by default.
@Thass: I've noticed that there is no penalty to attack over rivers anymore after I've installed the latest version of your mod pack. I'm only using your mod pack that affects the gameplay, the other mod I've installed is the Attila's for UI stuff. Anything like that noticed by anyone before?
Great job! I think what you've acomplished is almost the ideal for helicopters. It really makes no sense to make them able to cross oceans, in my opinion, but to fly over coast and traverse to another close continent (like through England and France, or through Alaska and Russia, to give a few real world examples) is something that they should be able to do. To achieve the ideal setting, they should embark over ocean, or it would be nice if they could be loaded into carriers to make the cross over oceans.
I really miss the "transport" unit type for transporting troops. Makes little sense that troops are transported independently and without protection by default.
Thanks, but it's a little premature it seems. I can't get the choppers to "land" on carriers, only fly over top of them. That's because it requires a "Rebase" unit mission to land on a carrier, and those are only available to units of air domain. I've tried making the helis air domain before, and it was *very* broken.
So I don't think this is going to go anywhere easily. I think it might be possible to make something like this work if you created a 2nd, air-domain, immobile version of the helicopter unit, and then added a new unit mission/command that somehow transforms the unit from land domain to air domain and back. If that's possible, you could then load & transport the choppers while they're in air mode. But this is a fair chunk of more research & work, and I'm not at all sure it's possible. Not going to go there at this time.
That said, I just downloaded the "Transport Ships" mod off the mod browser. It seems to solve this problem somehow, allowing land units onto ships. I'll have a look at it in case it gives me any ideas...
EDIT: That mod won't help. It adds new transport units which accept DOMAIN_LAND as cargo. We'd have to make a special "heli carrier" unit for that approach to work. Sorry for getting a bit off topic of this thread, should have kept it separate, I think.
@Thass: I've noticed that there is no penalty to attack over rivers anymore after I've installed the latest version of your mod pack. I'm only using your mod pack that affects the gameplay, the other mod I've installed is the Attila's for UI stuff. Anything like that noticed by anyone before?
I'm running Units v.13, and just tried an attack across a river, and it's decreasing my strength and showing the -20% modifier, so it seems to me to still be working. If you're sure, can you give a screenshot, specific unit types, or a save? I was worried that my code fix for certain combat modifiers is somehow suppressing the river penalty.
@civcivv, Perkus
Yeah I'd looked at the missile cruiser in the manual... I didn't realize it got a colossal nerf between manual and release date. I haven't had a single modern-era naval game yet, everything's ended before then, so I didn't realize missile cruisers were made so weak.
@Perkus
Huh, choppers don't have amphibious? This was a problem in Civ IV too, one of the few things I modded back in that game... why the heck would an air unit get an amphibious penalty... I'll add the promotion to them.
Would it be possible to add a button to the helicopter order list that forcibly embarks or disembarks them on their current tile? IE fly them out onto water, then hit the button to embark. I'm not sure there's a function to embark/disembark a unit exposed to Lua...
Discussion about choppers isn't offtopic at all. This is a mod to balance units, and allowing choppers to cross coastal tiles is something that would help balance them.
Ideally, I'd like a second version of the "Embark" promotion for them, turning them into amphibious assault ships. No real idea about how to make it wok gameplaywise, though.
But I'd really love to see them being able to cross (coastal) water tiles, I thought this was in vanilla already (Never came that far in the tech tree).
@Tomice
Re: Horsemen / Keshiks - Horsemen are by default obsoleted by Metallurgy, which is where Lancers become available, and I don't think this mod changes that. Keshiks are Knights. You should be able to build Keshiks and Horsemen...
@Tomice
Re: Horsemen / Keshiks - Horsemen are by default obsoleted by Metallurgy, which is where Lancers become available, and I don't think this mod changes that. Keshiks are Knights. You should be able to build Keshiks and Horsemen...
I wonder if there's a way to specifically block citystates from building particular structures... something I forgot is that since one of the new national wonders is a defensive structure, it caused problems with city-state defenses again. Arhg! I can't wait till we have C++ access and can make defensive buildings boost city hitpoints instead... oh well. Just gotta make do with the current tools at hand.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
32
, Missile cruiser is 60
