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Article "Traits in ffa and Ironman"

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by gavenkoa, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/

    If your not sure on what bonuses or traits each leader have perhaps this thread is much better. It will also help you with their UU and UB. Also on how the AI will behave. Really useful site.

    Posting from random sites with 10 year old articles is not a great way to improve your game play.

    One would hope you have picked something up from posting on the Civfanatics forum.
     
    coanda, gavenkoa and Harv like this.
  2. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I thought about it more and relate it to all these games with random leaders like Civ 4 was meant to be played with a random leader. I think it is better to select a leader and civilization and get to know them.

    Added:
    Right now, I'm working with creative as a trait. Early border pop, no need to chop a monument, 30 hammers saved, another 45 hammers saved if you are also building a library. There is an entire part of the game (cultural border of city) we don’t have to worry about because we are creative.

    I also like Hatty for that reason, also spiritual, no need to worry about anarchy for changing civics. Also early unique unit. Unique building is situational.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  3. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I agree to an extent, it stops from ridiculousness as not knowing what exactly each trait does. Of course, it will get very boring once you've learned a bit.
     
  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    IF you need a monument.

    I like Wash. He's probably the most neutral of all the leaders, namely in that his UUs are irrelevant. But he has very solid traits without being too strong (or complicated) and flexible starting techs. I often recommend him to new players trying to learn because of all that.
     
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  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I understand what you are saying but you can get that with random as well. Just play more games, or if you are just trying to learn, don't worry so much about completing games - or at least in the short term - but roll more games and play like 150 turns or so.

    I understand getting familiar with a trait, but there are also trait combos. But really, what is important to know is that as you get more experienced and knowledgeable with the game - while certainly you might play to a trait - traits in general IMO are actually a minor part of success.
     
  6. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    It's still technically possible to play multiplayer through direct IP or steam, but you have to already know people. There's no good public multiplayer server that I know of, anymore. I think that's another good reason to pay attention to things written by people who were actively playing, instead of theorizing from single player strategies.
    I agree, this isn't going to help gavenkoa much, it's just something to talk about.
     
  7. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Something to talk about if you care about MP, yes. This whole thread has been nothing but a massive misunderstanding. :)
     
  8. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    From what I understand, these people are playing on noble. Compared to deity, everybody has +2 :)

    I play on both prince and monarch. On Monarch :) isn't especially hard to get by, but on prince, it's actually hard to keep cities both near happy cap and at ideal whipping sizes (2-4 to 3-7). If you generally favor sustainable whipping over growing big cities, :) is a non issue.
     
  9. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Well if they play on Noble, we can write this article off as beginner guide.
    I never played, or saw good mp games played on such a low difficulty.
     
  10. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I don't understand. In SP, there are no :)-bonuses on noble. Strange if MP works like that, but I guess that is what you are saying.
     
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  11. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    What are you calling "good mp games"?

    Edit: the 2 next paragraph are garbage, at least as far as :) and :health: are concerned, I was wrong.

    Deity PBEM that strive to emulate single player minus cheesing the AI is a completely different, not comparable beast to fast games played in one seat. If there are only humans, difficulty level is really a matter of preference, not skills. If there are AIs, well, not everybody can cope with emperor. Arguably no beginner can even cope with monarch.

    I personally prefer :) and :health: rest limitations of higher difficulty levels, but I don't think improving equates being able to win against arbitrary levels of difficulty, that happen to require more :) and :health: management, among other things.

    This guide is obviously not a beginner guide -at least not in the sense of a guide for beginner- and I don't read it as it pretends to be. It seems destined to players new to fast multiplayer games, not necessarilly new to the game in general.

    But yeah, if OP did not get it already, it's a bad guide for single player. Also, fast mp is bad for beginners. While single player does teach you bad habit for multiplayer (eg leaving cities unprotected), playing slow (possible on SP) allows you to gain skills universally applicable. If it's the same as other games (eg chess), I'd say baring skills specific to it, fast multiplayer (or fast, short turn timer, in general) is more about checking skills you already have than about building new ones.

    As far as a is it a good guide for fast MP, most of the points made look dubious, but understandable. They're not attacko level of nonsensical, so not knowing fast MP, I can't confidently say they're garbage.

    Some points are less dependant on the settings, but they're not all bad, like the obvious creative sparing the need of a monument to build a city in optimal placement.

    Some are really bad on many points though like:
    "Since you will often be making your workers with food overflow this isn´t too imbalanced"
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  12. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    Hmm, have I confused with civ3? or with the bonus the AI gets? Possible, I'll check


    Edit: yes, definitely wrong my bad, thanks for pointing out
     
  13. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Maybe it worked like that in Vanilla/Warlords? It's been a while.
     
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  14. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    That's exactly that.

    "we just enjoy life" is +4 :) in noble+ in current BTS, but is +5/4/4/3/3/3 on Noble/Prince/Monarch/Emperor/Immortal/Deity on vanilla

    It's weird though I remember noticing it not too long gao when switching from Prince to Monarch, but maybe that was Noble to prince, or maybe that was trying a (vanilla) scenario on emperor.

    Anyway, that's a good thing they made it uniform among non handicapp level, in civ 3 (and I guess vanilla civ4) you had to adjust your build order going from one level to another.
     
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  15. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    It's hard to remember, but I thought the mp games were usually played on warlord/noble/prince. It doesn't really make things "easier" since everyone has the same difficulty, it just makes the tech pace go faster.
    That also affects the traits and strategy though... bulbing the earlier techs is overkill when they only have noble level costs.
     
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  16. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Well it's not like i want to discuss this one much further,
    but sure lower diff. makes gameplay easier. Harmless barbs, low tech costs means wrong decisions are less punishing, and so on.
    Now you can easily say oh sure i have no need for bulbing something lower, and i can reach Monarchy faster so Cha becomes pointless.
    Sowy but i call this newbie gameplay, no offense.
     
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  17. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    easier to defend against the barbarians, sure.
    Not so easy to defend against stacks of chariots that double-move from your blind spots and target your copper...
     
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  18. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    Thanks!

    Immediately useful:

    I am eager for getting early techs in exchange for Alphabet )) And is punished for that ))
     
  19. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    I've read about chain of Sentry units in those outdated articles...

    Something that I haven't heard here for Single Player mode...

    I wish there is mode for AI to target your vulnerable positions instead of handicap...
     
  20. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    You could try better BAT AI or K-mod.

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/better-bat-ai.421897/

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/k-mod-far-beyond-the-sword.16331/

    From my limited experience, they're more competent but not outstandingly so. They are less often infuriatingly bad though. And they do seek for weak points when attacking.
     

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