Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Ah, I see what you mean. We've got a few "Up the RA" types ourselves.
As Ireland goes under...
- Thread starter RedRalph
- Start date
So congratulations on the collapse of your government. Who do you Irish figure will win the election next month?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/world/europe/23ireland.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/world/europe/23ireland.html?_r=1&hp
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
It will probably be more of an auction than an election.
Snorrius
Librivorator
Seems like the propecies are closer to be fulfilled. EU and Eurozone has to fall.
Verbose
Deity
Except of course how no one actually in the EU is going to be a whit better off outside it. Too many things about it makes too much sense. If it has one failing, it seems to have been to insulate certain things from the harsh economic realities for too long. It's a problem, but not necessarily a sign of weakness. It will likely test the EU sense of solidarity something fierce before this mess has been resolved, so no guarantees for anything though.
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 15,191
Bank of Ireland down 24% again! It's halved in almost two days... Ireland's in for a fun time.
This. I understand that in hard times people do things they ordinarily wouldn't, and are very quick to judge: all the wealthier countries are probably growing increasingly disdainful of the countries requiring bailing out.
But emotion isn't a good platform to run on. People should do a logical analysis before deciding if the EU is better or worse for them or not. Seceding in some hopes it will change the situation by getting a little more control is quite reckless.
This. I understand that in hard times people do things they ordinarily wouldn't, and are very quick to judge: all the wealthier countries are probably growing increasingly disdainful of the countries requiring bailing out.
But emotion isn't a good platform to run on. People should do a logical analysis before deciding if the EU is better or worse for them or not. Seceding in some hopes it will change the situation by getting a little more control is quite reckless.
The share price of the banks is pretty irrelevant -they are dependent on the government and the ECB to keep afloat - the shares are for gamblers at the moment.
(BOI peaked at about €18.50 three years ago and is at 0.30 roughly now. I do know someone who bought at about 0.30 and sold at 2.00 last year but I know plenty more who bought on the way down)
(BOI peaked at about €18.50 three years ago and is at 0.30 roughly now. I do know someone who bought at about 0.30 and sold at 2.00 last year but I know plenty more who bought on the way down)
Cullyn
red ones go faster!!
@ some of the UK posters. Respectfully go and read history before you make juvenile comments about Ireland rejoining “the fold”. Ireland does not have the monopoly on financial mismanagement, but at least we only did it to our own country.
Shekwan
Kim Chi Quaffing Celt
You think our financial mismanagement hasn't threatened the economic wellbeing of other countries?
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 15,069
So who's lining up to be Ireland's Didius Julianus?
... like what?
I can see the interest of the ruling classes in Germany and France (the - probably misguided, but they can't be blamed for trying - attempt at being a world player, which the Euro was supposed to help finance) but what's in it for the peripheral countries now?
Solidarity? It's a damn structural problem, it can't be fixed with handouts. Those carry political strings which will simply become unacceptable.
The problem is built into the internal market and common currency. It would take some kind of federal government - sharing not only a market and financial rules but also political power - to solve it, and that I can't see the EU having. Not now, not even in 20 years, assuming it was somehow held together for that long.
Either the Euro goes, or both the common market and the neoclassical economic framework (all those "pro-competition" rules about no state interference in the economy, which the big nations routinely ignore anyway) goes. If the EU bureaucracy insists on defending both, it'll lose both and the whole political aspect of the union too - it'll break apart. Economically, the EU for the past 20 years has been a failure, for all countries involved, even if some suffered more than others.
Verbose
Deity
Markets.
As for the structural problem, that's what solidarity is going to be needed for. Are the Europeans in it together, or not...
If anything this is serving to strengthen the EU. What we may be seeing right now is the ending of economic sovereignty among EU states. The EU is beginning to adopt new rules regarding oversight, auditing and disclosure of budgets and debt, a European monetary fund is being created along institutions for oversight, and Germany has paved the way for EU states adopting debt limits, Germany has adopted 0.35% of the GDP. This crisis has actually strengthened the EU and EU institutions as the EU is becoming increasingly more akin to a federal structure, it's very interesting really to see where this goes. After all the Maastricht and Constitutional Treaties which adopted QMV more or less already ended unquestioned sovereignty of member states in various matters of policy and the ECJ has actively extended it's powers far beyond what the member states intended when they first signed on. Very interesting indeed.
More scholars and political scientists are now paying heed to the neo-functionalist notion of the EU.
More scholars and political scientists are now paying heed to the neo-functionalist notion of the EU.
Snorrius
Librivorator
I am partially agree with you about problems that may arise from dissolution of Eurozone and EU. The gradual transition to another economy model would be better choice of course, but the problem is that such transitions rarely happen especially when ideology is involved. China was able to do it, Soviet Union - not, USA and EU do not seem to be able to do it as well that's why I predict a harsh way to be chosen.
Snorrius
Librivorator
Your word against mine. I win.
Do you read news actually?
My word backed by actual scholars, and political scientists with published literature including a professor I know personally who specializes in....well this very topic. Whdathunkit? I'd link you to his more recent writings regarding this topic, specifically the economic crisis but it's technically not supposed to be released yet he'll be publishing it shortly, what you read above was a very brief summary of his take on of how the crisis has strengthened the EU and its institutions. I can provide more if you'd like, I have the paper right in front of me.
Snorrius
Librivorator
Does he think EU will strengthen like it is now or it will have to let some members go?
onedreamer
Dragon
Italy is safe. Berlusconi promised , so we are all feasting with pizza, mandolino, and under age immigrant girls.
I'm not sure those are mutually exclusive.
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