Ask a Basque Thread

[gangleri2001]

3. @gangleri: Forgive me, i am totally naive. I know that the Basques have that weird language and whatnot, but i am completely clueless about Aragonese culture?
How is it different from Castillian? What are the differences in mindset etc?

Aragonese? What do you mean by Aragonese? From the ancient Crown of Aragon or from present-day Aragon? I suppose you mean modern Aragonese culture.

In that case, I've to say that there're no longer any worth mentioning differences between the Aragonese and the Castilians. They have been fully assimilated into Castilian culture. Sure there's the Aragonese language, which is spoken in the Aragonese Pyrenees, and sure there's still a cliché of the Aragonese being or behaving like rude farmers (the maño cliché). But this is still not enough to consider modern Aragonese culture an independent culture rather than a cultural subset within Castilian culture, specially when we take into account that their language as been so dialactelized that many (even among serious scholars) consider it a dialect of Castilian.

This has never been like that. In the middle ages Aragonese culture personality was pretty much distinct and many consider that it peaked in the late 14h and 15th centuries, when great works were written in this language. This was, however, long ago and they've been assimilated into the Castilian culture ever since.

 

[innonimatu]

This is due to a mix of historical, geographical and cultural reasons. For isntance we have never had a landowner culture as in other parts of spain and we have had more culture of merchant or bourgeoisie. This leaded to development of new industries during the industrial era. Basque country was rich in iron and cooper mines. The Englishmen arrived and basque bourgeoisie worked with them in mines' exploiting. The economical profits where used in development of new industries such as shipping and machine tool. Besides this basque company owners started to send their sons to England in order to have an academic training. All his happened lesser extent in other peninsula areas. Machine tool industry still is very strong here in Basque country.

It all goes down to the geography, really. The Basque country was the region in the whole peninsula with the right resources for the early industrial age (iron and good coal nearby). It was a time when such resources (almost all resources, really) could not be economically moved very far. Industrialization followed from that, as it happened in the english Midlands, in the german Ruhr and german/austrian Silesia, in Belgium and northern France, in american Pensylvannia, and some other places (even Japan had some luck; the swedes, the chinese and the russians had good resources too but needed to build the infrastructure to reach them first). Look at the maps of the exploration of those two resources in the 19th century, cross them with population density and proximity to waterways, and you'll understand the whole winners and losers of the industral revolution thing. (Some) Cultural differences followed from that, they did not cause that.

Land ownership in the peninsula is also somewhat tied to geography, but not as much. I don't know about Spain, but I'm assuming that large estates were mostly owned by nobles well into the 19th century, and that though concentrated in the flatter lands of the south there were some in the best lands of the north also. Did the basque region had less of a plague of powerful nobles also due to its old political constitution before political centralization in Spain, and more powerful municipal authorities?

 

[Josu]

It all goes down to the geography, really. The Basque country was the region in the whole peninsula with the right resources for the early industrial age (iron and good coal nearby). It was a time when such resources (almost all resources, really) could not be economically moved very far. Industrialization followed from that, as it happened in the english Midlands, in the german Ruhr and german/austrian Silesia, in Belgium and northern France, in american Pensylvannia, and some other places (even Japan had some luck; the swedes, the chinese and the russians had good resources too but needed to build the infrastructure to reach them first). Look at the maps of the exploration of those two resources in the 19th century, cross them with population density and proximity to waterways, and you'll understand the whole winners and losers of the industral revolution thing. (Some) Cultural differences followed from that, they did not cause that.

I don't know if I agree on what you are saying, when I wrote this I was thinking in which was the difference between Basque country and for example Huelva, which was rich in cooper as well. In Basque country there was a culture of merchants and some bourgeois, so the indutrial thing started. In the mines of Huelva, in most cases, the Englishmen arrived, paid to the señorito took the cooper and left. Maybe my analysis is not right but it was in this way.

Land ownership in the peninsula is also somewhat tied to geography, but not as much. I don't know about Spain, but I'm assuming that large estates were mostly owned by nobles well into the 19th century, and that though concentrated in the flatter lands of the south there were some in the best lands of the north also. Did the basque region had less of a plague of powerful nobles also due to its old political constitution before political centralization in Spain, and more powerful municipal authorities?

There where not to powerful nobles in basque country, besides the lords, there were a lot of medium or minor power nobles divided in two sides in a kind of civil war.
In any case all the lords, small nobles such as "hidalgos" (many of the population) must comply with the law made in the political institutions. For example if the Lord of Biscay was breaking the law, the parliament in Gernika had the power of dismiss him.
During the XIV and XV centuries this nobles lost a lot of power in relation to rich burghers

 

[Josu]

Sorry for reviving this thread, but I think that this info is usefull for understanding the difference between basque and spanish economy.

S&P affirms Spain's Basque Country

Overview
-- Spain's Autonomous Community of the Basque Country benefits from a predictable institutional framework, and has an export-oriented economy that is more competitive than Spain's, in Standard & Poor's view.
-- We expect the region to take appropriate measures to return to operating surpluses and reduce its overall deficit over 2012-2014, in compliance with fiscal targets set by the Spanish government.
-- We are affirming our long-term rating on the Basque Country at 'A'.
-- The long-term rating remains two notches above our long-term rating on Spain, based on our view of the region's strong economic and institutional features.
-- The negative outlook reflects the outlook on the long-term rating on Spain.

 

[gangleri2001]

If you don't vote Bildu this October I'm gonna get you!

 

[Josu]

If you don't vote Bildu this October I'm gonna get you!

Sorry for the delay, I have been out for vacations for two weeks.
Don't worry about next october
However I am pretty sure that PNV will win the elections and Mr Urkullu will be next Lehendakari (yeeks)

 

[gangleri2001]

I made an adaptation of the March of Oriamendi, I hope you like it:

The new march of Oriamendi
Por la lengua, la patria y el parné
lucharon nuestros abuelos,
por la lengua, la patria y el parné
lucharemos nosotros también.
Lucharemos todos juntos,
todos juntos, en hermandad,
defendiendo la bandera
de la santa secesión.
Lucharemos todos juntos,
todos juntos, en hermandad,
defendiendo la bandera
de la santa secesión.
Cueste lo que cueste
hay que conseguir
que nuestros intereses
no pasen más por Madrid.
Cueste lo que cueste
hay que conseguir
que nuestros intereses
no pasen más por Madrid.
Por la lengua, la patria y el parné
lucharon nuestros abuelos,
por la lengua, la patria y el parné
lucharemos nosotros también.​

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

What's it like during winter? I have a friend heading to Europe for the first time in December and wanted suggestions of places to visit. Well of course my number one suggestion was The Basque Country however I have only been during the summer as I love the surfing there.

What do you suggest would be some winter highlights?

 

[Quackers]

How the hell does Atheletico Bilbao compete in La Liga despite recruiting from a small region of Spain and France? It must have some awesome methods to teach the rest of the world.

 

[Josu]

What's it like during winter? I have a friend heading to Europe for the first time in December and wanted suggestions of places to visit. Well of course my number one suggestion was The Basque Country however I have only been during the summer as I love the surfing there.

What do you suggest would be some winter highlights?

[Mode Ollie Williams ON] RAIN!! [Mode Ollie Williams OFF]

We usually have a quite wet winter and spring. In fact, there is an average of about 300 days/year of rain in basque country. Temperature in winter is between 5º (celsius obvioulsy) in cold days and 12º in hot ones. The extremelly cold days we can have temperatures around 0º and we have snow 0,1 or 2 days per year in the coast, and maybe 5 inland. Coldest month is Februrary.
So, in consecuence, it is not a very cold weather, BUT, it is very important trying to keep clothes dry, if they get wet, the wind will make you fell mucho more cold, almost chilled. A good idea for the basque country in winter is a windstoper that is watter proof.

How the hell does Atheletico Bilbao compete in La Liga despite recruiting from a small region of Spain and France? It must have some awesome methods to teach the rest of the world.

Let me correct you Athletic de Bilbao (not athletico, the club has english roots).
Well the question is quite dificutl to answer properly. I would say that there is plenty of kids playing football since young. Athletic club is La Liga's club that spends more percentage of budget in football player teaching. Most of small clubs in Biscay, and some in other provinces receive money from Athletic Club in order to improve the teaching. If any of these young players is doing it fine, he is moved to Athletic Club's youth teams (If player reaches the first team, the original club receives a plus).
Besides, the club tries to teach more than football, Athletic Club has agreements with best schools in the area so that the player can receive the best academic training. This ensures a low rate of kids giving up football because of bad califications. Furthermore, if a player is obtaining bad califications at school he is penalised and plays less matches.

Basically this is the method. Sometimes the "quarry" gives an excellent generation, so we can aspire a better classification, and sometimes, it is not so good, as 6 years ago, when we almost get relegated

There is another point I forget to mention. The aim of our philosophy is that every single player and every single young boy's maximum aspiration is to play in the Athletic club. So players are going to defend it with honor, fighting spirit and pride, it sounds a little bit weird, but it gives us a point over some teams

 

[604slw]

I'm a nursing student in Oregon. We are learning about different cultures as it relates to healthcare/nursing/illness. My group has been assigned the Basque culture. I have been searching the internet for any information that would be related to these issues but am having difficulties finding the answers. I have found the RH- factor, but I am needing more info than just that. I was wondering if you had anyone who would be able to answer some of these questions for us. We would greatly appreciate it.

The questions would be:
1. How does the culture view health/illness?
2. Diseases or risk factors common in this group?
3. Effect of hospitalization/illness?
4. Would the diet in the hospital affect a patient in the culture?
5. Privacy needs of the culture?
6. Family patters/interactions/hierarchy?
7. Are there expressions of pain/anxiety different?
8. Use of time/personal space?
9. Communication patterns?
10. Differences in apparel of which the nurse would need to be aware of?

Again, thank you very much for you time.

 

[gangleri2001]

Basques are western european so not much changes. You can give them the exact same attention you'd give to any american, french or norwegian.

 

[Josu]

I'm a nursing student in Oregon. We are learning about different cultures as it relates to healthcare/nursing/illness. My group has been assigned the Basque culture. I have been searching the internet for any information that would be related to these issues but am having difficulties finding the answers. I have found the RH- factor, but I am needing more info than just that. I was wondering if you had anyone who would be able to answer some of these questions for us. We would greatly appreciate it.

The main biological, and I would say the only difference between basques and other etnicities in the area is the RH- Factor. I do not know too much about this issue. But I would say that this factor is not conclusive. There are no non-basques in my father's family tree until 15th century (we were not able to find previous records), and my father was RH+
On the other hand as I said in this post somewhere before, the basque ethnicity's differenciation is our language.

The questions would be:
1. How does the culture view health/illness?

I supposse that as any other european culture. As any other european culture, in the middle ages some diseases where related to religion. For example the basque expresion for bless you!! when someone sneezes, is doministiku, which cames from the latin, Dominus te cum, god with you.

In addition and in middle ages as well, some diseases like black plague were related to the cagots.

2. Diseases or risk factors common in this group?

As far as I know there are no special risk factors for basques.

3. Effect of hospitalization/illness?

We have a pretty good public health care system, a hospitalization is like in any other European country

4. Would the diet in the hospital affect a patient in the culture?

No, basque traditional diet is wide and our culture does not forbid any food. Maybe some elder people still practices vigil in lent, but they just do not eat meat on fridays, which is a nonsense because a vigil does not applyes to ill people, in any case hospitals take care of it.

5. Privacy needs of the culture?

Do not undestand this question, can you please elaborate more

6. Family patters/interactions/hierarchy?

Basque culture is esentially a kind of matriarchy, Aita (father) used to decide, but Ama (mother) manages and is the counselor. Besides in the middle ages, if a man wanted to get married, sisters and morthers were the encharged to seek a girfriend

7. Are there expressions of pain/anxiety different?

No, basically, they are the same, but translated, in addition expresions including swearwords are not traditionally basque.

8. Use of time/personal space?

Nowadays it is the same as any other european culture, people wakes up about 7 Am in the morning, they go to work, work for until 13 or 14, have a lunch, and go back to work, at 18 or 19 goes back home. We spend time with family, friends, and have beers and wines on weekedns. Each ones house is each one decision, there is no a pattern about the personal space, some people invite other to their home, some other have they home as a sanctuary that can not be acceded...

Some years ago, each house was having an Atari (something like a hall), this was a public place, if someone was visiting he was received there. The insiders were not shown. Towns were small, and houses were usually separated, so it was not very common having neighbor invading peoples property

9. Communication patterns?

Please, can you concrete more?

10. Differences in apparel of which the nurse would need to be aware of?
Again, thank you very much for you time.

No, nurses are wearing same clothes as in any other side of Europe

 

[Jshack52]

Hi
My grandmother is from the Basque Country (San Sebastian) and was shipped to the UK as a child in the civil war. We know very little about being basque, she did not talk much about it and I know there was some tension for the refugees and many gave up the culture by marrying English men.

I do feel like it is an important part of me that I want to know more about and connect to.

I wondered if it is possible to get a basque passport? I know with a Spanish passport you must give up your other nationality. I feel that is unreasonable given that the political history is what led to people being forced elsewhere.

Are there any arrangements for people like me who feel part basque but don't want to give up our other nationality?

thanks

 

[Josu]

Hi
My grandmother is from the Basque Country (San Sebastian) and was shipped to the UK as a child in the civil war. We know very little about being basque, she did not talk much about it and I know there was some tension for the refugees and many gave up the culture by marrying English men.

I do feel like it is an important part of me that I want to know more about and connect to.

I wondered if it is possible to get a basque passport? I know with a Spanish passport you must give up your other nationality. I feel that is unreasonable given that the political history is what led to people being forced elsewhere.

Are there any arrangements for people like me who feel part basque but don't want to give up our other nationality?

thanks

Hi:

No, it is not possible ot get a Basque passport I don't even have one.
We have to diferenciate Basque country as cultural entity (which exists) from Basque country as Administrative entity, that exists as Autonomous comunity in Spain and as "pays" in France.

In 1997 there was an attemp to create a Basque ID card which was called ENA (Euskal Nortasun Agiria, Basque Identity document) which is recognised by 21 municipalities. It is unofficial. Here you have a sample

(Agustin Xaho, the guy in the photo, was a Romantic Basque writer)

In 2001 Udalbiltza created Euskal Herriko Naziotasun Aitormena (Basque nationality recognition), another Basque ID card. Here the sample:

Udalbiltza, was and still is, and attemp of kind of parliament formed by representants of basque municipalties. This was created by nationalist parties, so cities and towns in which there is a non nationalist mayority does not use their right to be in this parliament. In year 2000 Udalbiltza got divided (People's Front of Judea & Judean People's Front ) due to some divergences around a statement of rejection of ETA. In 2010 there was a trial against one of these divisions alleging support to terrorism, but they were declared innocents.

 

[Lohrenswald]

I'm under the impression that the written basque language basically was made between 100 and 200 years ago. Why does it have such an abundance of z's and k's when most other languages in that area of Europe uses s's and c's?

 

[Josu]

I'm under the impression that the written basque language basically was made between 100 and 200 years ago. Why does it have such an abundance of z's and k's when most other languages in that area of Europe uses s's and c's?

Your impression is correct, written basque language was not unified until XX century. Before this unification there were deep debates and different ways of writting, it is not unusual to see the nationalist moto "Zazpiak bat" (The seven are one, seven provinces are one country) as "Zazpiac bat" or "Hirurak Bat" (The three are one, Basque autonomous region, Navarre and French basque country are one country) as "Irurac bat"

The reason of why we have so many K's is that the written basque laws were elaborated after many years of thinking over it. In Spanish and French (The two languages that surround us) C has two phonetic values /k/ and /s/ but the guys who decided our writting laws wanted one letter for each phonetic value and one phonetic value for each letter, so they choosed K instead C. That happened because K has the same phonetic value /k/ in most languajes.

So, then they have to search a letter for /s/, as in Basque we do not have [θ] (Z in spanish and french), we use Z for /s/ because it was "unchoosen", then we use s for /z/ (as in Spanish, and not sure that as in french) and x for /ʃ/. This way we have one phonema for each letter and one letter for each phonema. We have some other "similar" phonemas that may lead to confusion but they can be ressumed as /ts/, /tz/ and /tʃ/, they solved it by writting a t before the z, s and x.

And all these things lead us to not have C in written basque

 

[Steph]

Question for you: since Basque are both in Spain and France, how do you see the separatism movement?
- To have a Basque independant country from Spain only, with still a part of Basque in France?
- Or and larger independant country from Spain and France?

I don't know many Basque in France, but I have the impression they don't really resent being "French", as long as they can speak Basque and call themselves Basque. More a kind of "I'm proud to be Basque", like you could have from Corsica, Brittany, or other part of France (although it's probably more important for some).

While it seems in Spain, the Basque resent more being "Spanish" and are more separatist.

I think it's the same with Catalonia. We have in France people who speak Catalan, but I never heard of a separatist movement here.

And so, why do you think Basque / Catalans in Spain have a stronger separatist movement than in France?

 

[Borachio]

Wouldn't that have something to do with Franco's Falangist repression of any such form of self expression?

As opposed to the liberal democracy of republican France?

 

[Josu]

Question for you: since Basque are both in Spain and France, how do you see the separatism movement?
- To have a Basque independant country from Spain only, with still a part of Basque in France?

In the thread about Catalonian referendum there is a post from gangleri2001 that matches pretty well my point of view, Basque elites do not want independence, they like to wave the basque flag, but they are absolutely confortable with the current basque tax status. They are not going to boost a true independence movement at this moment. IMHO they are not going to boost it while we have a different taxation and while the Basque Economic Agreement is in force. That's why just EH BILDU (Basque nationalist coalition of socialdemocrats and left wing) defends clearly the independence, because PNV (Basque nationalist conservatives) is absolutely confortable with a certain economic autonomy that allows them to control their affairs
On the other hand, supposing that they go for it, currently no more than a 55% wants independence and independence means getting out from the European Union this number is reduced to 45%.
As I have said in this thread I consider myself separatist, but honestly, I don't consider that independence is going to be achieved in sort or medium term.

- Or and larger independant country from Spain and France?
I don't know many Basque in France, but I have the impression they don't really resent being "French", as long as they can speak Basque and call themselves Basque. More a kind of "I'm proud to be Basque", like you could have from Corsica, Brittany, or other part of France (although it's probably more important for some).

Basque nationalists in france are a minority, If I don't see that independence is going to happen just with the spanish side, where we are a mayority, with the french side is almost imposible.
French Basques like considering themselves as French and basques, they will defend Basque culture but in political terms, most of them feel confortable in France.

While it seems in Spain, the Basque resent more being "Spanish" and are more separatist.

I think it's the same with Catalonia. We have in France people who speak Catalan, but I never heard of a separatist movement here.

And so, why do you think Basque / Catalans in Spain have a stronger separatist movement than in France?

Spain never have solved their national unity issue, when they have tryed to solve it they have done in a clumsy way or even by impositions that did not take effect

Wouldn't that have something to do with Franco's Falangist repression of any such form of self expression?

As opposed to the liberal democracy of republican France?

It may be part of the answer but not the complete answer. Franco's repression was just one stage more in the Spanish repression to cultural minorityes in Spain.