Ask a Basque Thread

[Viregel]

May I ask - what is the coolest feature of the Basque language, in your opinion? For example, German has a fantastic word combination process that I don't quite understand, giving you some weird and wonderful phrases, Swedish has "fika", which I am not qualified enough to translate ("coffee break" doesn't quite cut it), and Polish has a really flexible use of the f-word (apparently). What would you say the coolest thing about Basque is?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

In the thread about Catalonian referendum there is a post from gangleri2001 that matches pretty well my point of view, Basque elites do not want independence, they like to wave the basque flag, but they are absolutely confortable with the current basque tax status. They are not going to boost a true independence movement at this moment. IMHO they are not going to boost it while we have a different taxation and while the Basque Economic Agreement is in force. That's why just EH BILDU (Basque nationalist coalition of socialdemocrats and left wing) defends clearly the independence, because PNV (Basque nationalist conservatives) is absolutely confortable with a certain economic autonomy that allows them to control their affairs
On the other hand, supposing that they go for it, currently no more than a 55% wants independence and independence means getting out from the European Union this number is reduced to 45%.
As I have said in this thread I consider myself separatist, but honestly, I don't consider that independence is going to be achieved in sort or medium term.



Basque nationalists in france are a minority, If I don't see that independence is going to happen just with the spanish side, where we are a mayority, with the french side is almost imposible.
French Basques like considering themselves as French and basques, they will defend Basque culture but in political terms, most of them feel confortable in France.



Spain never have solved their national unity issue, when they have tryed to solve it they have done in a clumsy way or even by impositions that did not take effect



It may be part of the answer but not the complete answer. Franco's repression was just one stage more in the Spanish repression to cultural minorityes in Spain.

Nice. Maybe we should change the repressive Spanish constitution for something similar to the French one, then.

 

[Steph]

I'm not sure the French democracy is the best example at the moment...

 

[Borachio]

Why? What they have done now?

(I'll admit I'm woefully out of touch with French politics. What with all the excitement over Scotland.)

 

[Steph]

Well... Not much... That's the point. Except bickering.

 

[Josu]

May I ask - what is the coolest feature of the Basque language, in your opinion? For example, German has a fantastic word combination process that I don't quite understand, giving you some weird and wonderful phrases, Swedish has "fika", which I am not qualified enough to translate ("coffee break" doesn't quite cut it), and Polish has a really flexible use of the f-word (apparently). What would you say the coolest thing about Basque is?

I think that the coolest thing about our languaje is its uncertain origins, it is a non indoeuropean languaje surrounded by latin languajes and that survived along the centuries and maintaining its peculiarities, for example compounding is common in Basque (as in German) but not very common in French or Spanish.

There are some words that I have always considered interesting, for example Hamaika. The first meaning of this word is eleven, but it can also be used as very a large ammount. So more than ten is a lot

Another word I love is Muxutruk, whose literal traduction means in exchange of a kiss, we use it for things that are for free.

On the other hand I consider weird the words the used for brother/sister relationship. If you are a man, your brother will be Anai, while is you are a woman he will be Neba, On the other hand if you are a man, your sister will be Arreba, while if you are a woman it will be Ahizpa. I don't know if it happens with any other languaje

 

[Borachio]

Isn't Basque strange in only really having a passive voice for verbs?

So, for example, you can't say "John built a house", you must say "A house was built by John"?

Or is this just something I've dreamt? (Or the dream that was dreamt by me.) I do dream a lot. To the extent that I quite often think I've fallen through a hole in the space-time continuum.

 

[Josu]

Isn't Basque strange in only really having a passive voice for verbs?

So, for example, you can't say "John built a house", you must say "A house was built by John"?

Or is this just something I've dreamt? (Or the dream that was dreamt by me.) I do dream a lot. To the extent that I quite often think I've fallen through a hole in the space-time continuum.

No, we have both, active and passive:
John built a house -> Jonek etxe bat eraiki zuen
A house was built by John -> Etxe bat eraikia izan zen Jonengatik

I am interested in this question because some time ago, you asked me the very same thing. You had to have read something about it or something similar. For gods sake, try to remember!!!

 

[Borachio]

Who? What? Where am I? This is all a dream!

(I had a dream last night where this consultant diagnosed me as "odd", only "20% socialized", and with a "prominent gut". I'd also, apparently, been convicted of killing a gardener with his own hoe. I denied all knowledge of this alleged "crime" in my dream. Even on waking, I still do. I honestly hope I'm right.)

Must remember Basque has an active and passive voice. Must remember Basque has an active and passive voice. Must remember Basque has an active and passive voice. Must remember Basque has an active and passive voice. Must remember Basque has an active and passive voice.

 

[Steph]

Hmm... "Basque has an active and passive voice". Does it mean the voice is both active and passive? Should it be "Basque has active and passive voices?".

 

[Josu]

Hmm... "Basque has an active and passive voice". Does it mean the voice is both active and passive? Should it be "Basque has active and passive voices?".

Yeah, you are right, we have active and passive voices

 

[Steph]

I don't know how it is in Basque with gender/number of adjectives and names, but French has an added subtility compare to English.

Exemple: "Red and blue balls" is translated in French into
"Des balles bleu et rouge" if every ball is both red and blue strips for example
OR
"des balles bleues et rouges", if some balls are completely red, and other completely blue, and the adjactive in that base need the "e" (because balle is feminine) , and the "s" (plural).

 

[Josu]

I don't know how it is in Basque with gender/number of adjectives and names, but French has an added subtility compare to English.

Exemple: "Red and blue balls" is translated in French into
"Des balles bleu et rouge" if every ball is both red and blue strips for example
OR
"des balles bleues et rouges", if some balls are completely red, and other completely blue, and the adjactive in that base need the "e" (because balle is feminine) , and the "s" (plural).

Basque words do not have gender,so we do not have this subtility. It goes linked to the concept, for example, woman concept is feminine, but the word (Emakume) isn't.

 

[gangleri2001]

I don't know how it is in Basque with gender/number of adjectives and names, but French has an added subtility compare to English.

Basque uses a single mandatory determinar for all syntagms. That is, within a syntagm are written in their root forms and then you add the determiner at the end. Here an example:

urdin = blue
liburu = book
a = determiner for singular
ak = determiner for plural

So having these you can do the following

urdin liburua = the blue book
urdin liburuak = the blue books
liburua = the book
liburuak = the books
urdina = the blue one
urdinak = the blue ones

A syntagm can bee as long as you need it to:

urdin luze zahar liburuak = the long blue old books

The ending of the determiner may vary according to the case:

liburua = absolutive case
liburuek = ergative case
liburuari = dative case
liburuan = inesive case
etc.

 

[Steph]

ergative? inesive? Never heard of that. Quick wiki search seems to show the concept exists only for Basque, at least in Europe.

 

[Josu]

Basque uses a single mandatory determinar for all syntagms. That is, within a syntagm are written in their root forms and then you add the determiner at the end. Here an example:

urdin = blue
liburu = book
a = determiner for singular
ak = determiner for plural

So having these you can do the following

urdin liburua = the blue book
urdin liburuak = the blue books
liburua = the book
liburuak = the books
urdina = the blue one
urdinak = the blue ones

A syntagm can bee as long as you need it to:

urdin luze zahar liburuak = the long blue old books

The ending of the determiner may vary according to the case:

liburua = absolutive case
liburuek = ergative case
liburuari = dative case
liburuan = inesive case
etc.

I have always been awfull in grammar cases and theory, I was not going to explain something as you did, so i just can say this

Just one "correction"

"urdin luze zahar liburuak = the long blue old books"

I would have said Liburu urdin luze zaharrak, the determiner can be added to the adjective (in fact it is the correct way), it is a concept similar to "los libros azules" and "los azules libros" in Spanish, in the second one "azul" is used to emphasize. The sentence as you wrote is correct, but is more literary

ergative? inesive? Never heard of that. Quick wiki search seems to show the concept exists only for Basque, at least in Europe.

Inesive case can be found in Finnish language. On the other hand if you consider that Georgia (in the Caucasus) is in Europe, nope, they use as well ergative (I had to search for this info), this is intriguing to me because there are several studies that arguee that Basque is related to languages in the Causasus, basically with Georgian and Armenian.

 

[gangleri2001]

Just one "correction"

"urdin luze zahar liburuak = the long blue old books"

I would have said Liburu urdin luze zaharrak, the determiner can be added to the adjective (in fact it is the correct way), it is a concept similar to "los libros azules" and "los azules libros" in Spanish, in the second one "azul" is used to emphasize. The sentence as you wrote is correct, but is more literary

Oh that's right. I had forgotten about the normal order (liburu urdina) and the literary order (urdin liburua) thing. Still not bad for someone who only made introductory course of Basque five years ago.

 

[Josu]

Oh that's right. I had forgotten about the normal order (liburu urdina) and the literary order (urdin liburua) thing. Still not bad for someone who only made introductory course of Basque five years ago.

Honestly, I am absoultely impressed with your Basque

 

[Steph]

Another question for you, about "jeu de force basque" (I believe it's Herri Kirolak according to wiki).
Is it popular? Do you participate?

 

[gangleri2001]

It is popular (not as football though) but I doubt there are many participants.