Ask a red

[Wraith23]

Can you prove to me in a scientific manner how to calculate the surplus value? No.

What is your answer to the calculation problem in socialism? It is irrelevant.

How does a socialist state "wither" to communism? I don't know.

Are you for the state or against the state? It depends on the situation.

Now I understand why Marx called it "Scientific Socialism"

 

[plarq]

So if I decide to become a programmer and write a revolutionary new word processing program and sell it for $20 apiece, I get to keep all that money?

Why sell it?

I've seen too many open source softwares that met commercial quality.

To Wraith: Just because he didn't answer it doesn't mean Scientific Socialism cannot answer. A follower is not a proof of a theory.

 

[Tiepolo]

Q: What readings have formed your understanding of communism/socialism?

I'm sure this has been answered but for those who can answer questions, I'd like to hear from all.

 

[plarq]

Q: What readings have formed your understanding of communism/socialism?

I'm sure this has been answered but for those who can answer questions, I'd like to hear from all.

Mao's Red Book for me.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Q: What readings have formed your understanding of communism/socialism?

I'm sure this has been answered but for those who can answer questions, I'd like to hear from all.

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels - The Communist Manifesto
William Dean Howells - A Traveler From Altruria
Seneca the Elder - Letters from a Stoic
Ludo Martens - Another View of Stalin
The Holy Bible
Selected articles and other documents

I own a number that I haven't read, but plan on:

Karl Marx - Das Kapital
Howard Zinn - A People's History of the United States
Georg Lukacs - History and Class Consciousness
Noam Chomsky - Profit Over People
V. I. Lenin - Selected Works
Upton Sinclair - The Jungle
Upton Sinclair - Oil!
Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
Chris Harman - A People's History of the World
Herbert Marcuse - One-Dimensional Man

I'm sure there are others, but that's all I can remember now, as I'm not at home at the moment.

 

[Agent327]

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels - The Communist Manifesto
Arthur Koestler - Darkness At Noon
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn - The Gulag Archipelago
George Orwell - Animal Farm
George Orwell - 1984
Nicholas V. Riasanovsky - A History of Russia.

Karl Marx - Das Kapital

Found this, even in translation, impossible to get through.

 

[plarq]

You shouldn't put anti-communist books with communist books together, that will mess up your brain.

Put them in two categories.

 

[Agent327]

As this:

Q: What readings have formed your understanding of communism/socialism?

I'm sure this has been answered but for those who can answer questions, I'd like to hear from all.

was the question, I answered to the best of my knowledge. (I may have left out a publication or two, but books do not "mess up my brain", they educate it - I believe in permanent education.)

 

[Richard Cribb]

Hold on - I have a long post that I might finish this weekend or so. It'd be lovely to hear what you say about some more difficult questions.

Sorry, but I blankly refuse to go on since the trolls with the blessings of the authorities are allowed to roam freely.
I also find it amazing that one is supposed not to establish reasonable house rules by obvious reasonsand that it is so difficult to grasp the difference between answering and posting and the clarification that this also for obvious reasons is not a debating thread. It makes an interesting precedent, though.

Moderator Action: Just to make this VERY clear to people here:

OPs have no more "rights" over a thread than anybody else. It is NOT anybody's right to decide who is allowed to post in a thread and who is not. No matter what 'rules' anyone sets in their OPs.

See above.

And speaking of trolls:

To Wraith: Just because he didn't answer it doesn't mean Scientific Socialism cannot answer. A follower is not a proof of a theory.

I did perhaps not clarify this. I could provide answers in general to those questions, but not to somebody who obviously spends unhealthy amounts of time on mises.org. Those people come from another planet.
His snotty attitude didn't motivate either.

None should be surprised if this thread will close soon.

 

[Integral]

Luceafarul,

You have made the comment on several of the political compass threads that you are not an 'ultra-leftist'. Could you briefly distinguish between your leftism and what you perceive to be the ultra-left, and explain some of the disagreements you have with them?

(I am also intrigued by your comment that the socialist calculation problem is 'irrelevant'. Would it be too much to ask for an explication?)

 

[plarq]

Sorry, but I blankly refuse to go on since the trolls with the blessings of the authorities are allowed to roam freely.
I also find it amazing that one is supposed not to establish reasonable house rules by obvious reasonsand that it is so difficult to grasp the difference between answering and posting and the clarification that this also for obvious reasons is not a debating thread. It makes an interesting precedent, though.

The Mods would not enforce your house rule on other posters. If you dislike people interrupting your conversations with posters, register a blog and try to do there--but, you'll get flooded with flames, trolls, vulgar swearing etc. So? Your choice. Either neglecting posts that you dislike, or change your house rule.

I did perhaps not clarify this. I could provide answers in general to those questions, but not to somebody who obviously spends unhealthy amounts of time on mises.org. Those people come from another planet.
His snotty attitude didn't motivate either.

None should be surprised if this thread will close soon.

Like I said above, just ignore the post if you dislike his attitude and intelligence level.

 

[holy king]

Found this, even in translation, impossible to get through.

i own a gdr "worker's edition". maybe there's something similar available in dutch.

 

[holy king]

Luceafarul,

You have made the comment on several of the political compass threads that you are not an 'ultra-leftist'. Could you briefly distinguish between your leftism and what you perceive to be the ultra-left, and explain some of the disagreements you have with them?

(I am also intrigued by your comment that the socialist calculation problem is 'irrelevant'. Would it be too much to ask for an explication?)

luce has left the thread i think. what communists call "ultra-left" or "radical left" usually is anarchism. term goes back to lenin in this instance.

 

[Agent327]

lwhat communists call "ultra-left" or "radical left" usually is anarchism. term goes back to lenin in this instance.

That may be so; generally speaking, however, "ultra-left" or "radical left" actually includes communism and other fringe phenomonon ideologies.

 

[Wraith23]

To Wraith: Just because he didn't answer it doesn't mean Scientific Socialism cannot answer. A follower is not a proof of a theory.

You are right, however it gives a taste of their arrogance based on ignorance.

I did perhaps not clarify this. I could provide answers in general to those questions

Anyone can provide general answers...... pfff.
Just copy and paste from wikipedia. Thats hardly a "scientific" explanation.

but not to somebody who obviously spends unhealthy amounts of time on mises.org. Those people come from another planet.
His snotty attitude didn't motivate either.

Oh! so thats why you didnt answer me! I should spent all my time on revleft.com reading about "class struggle", "dialectical materialism" and "capitalist exploitation"

It amazes me how marxists can consider to be open to new ideas other than their own to be "unhealthy".

Maybe you are right, to people like you LIBERTY is an alien concept

 

[innonimatu]

It amazes me how marxists can consider to be open to new ideas other than their own to be "unhealthy".

Maybe you are right, to people like you LIBERTY is an alien concept

Do you have any idea about what liberty is? Do you even know how Mises and later Hayek (with some modifications) interpreted it?

Anyway, I've noticed that in your previous reply to my post, and all other replies, you've managed to completely ignore the book recommendations - in fact you commented on the whole post except that. Now go ahead and keep complaining about others not being "open to new ideas"... while you remain locked as a slavering follower of Mises (the guy whose "theories" Polanyi soundly trashed back in the 1940s) chasing an impossible fantasy about "liberty"!

And before you complain further - read the books. I've checked and "The great transformation" is even available for free in some p2p networks. A followed of Mises would have no problem with getting a copy there.

 

[Wraith23]

Do you have any idea about what liberty is? Do you even know how Mises and later Hayek (with some modifications) interpreted it?

A socialist talking about Freedom

Anyway, I've noticed that in your previous reply to my post, and all other replies, you've managed to completely ignore the book recommendations - in fact you commented on the whole post except that

Giving me some books to read is not a valid response to a political thread thats just avoiding the issue.

Now go ahead and keep complaining about others not being "open to new ideas"...

I dont complain about you, I just pity you

while you remain locked as a slavering follower of Mises (the guy whose "theories" Polanyi soundly trashed back in the 1940s) chasing an impossible fantasy about "liberty"!

You mean actual slavery like socialist state slavery or imaginary slavery like me choosing what to read being different from your marxist propaganda?........ Do you even understand the difference my little lumpen proletarian?

And before you complain further - read the books. I've checked and "The great transformation" is even available for free in some p2p networks. A followed of Mises would have no problem with getting a copy there.

Give me the link then and stop complaining about it

Moderator Action: Warned - trolling.

 

[innonimatu]

Overlooking your ramblings about "socialists", "slavery", etc... we come to an interesting conclusion:

Give me the link then and stop complaining about it

gimme, gimme, gimme...

What a liberal! What a libertarian you are. Gimme gimme gimme... you can't even be bothered a few minutes' search, can you? And you expect me to further bother with helping you through your insufficiencies?

Sorry, but I'm not one of the reds volunteering to do the answering here. So, so long and good luck - you'll need it!

 

[Richard Cribb]

Well, people, seeing the diastrous way this thread is straying along, I will arrange for it to be turned into an ex-thread.
I will only leave a few final remarks, and start with taking out the garbage.

You are right, however it gives a taste of their arrogance based on ignorance.

Please don't project yourself on us, laddie.

Anyone can provide general answers...... pfff.
Just copy and paste from wikipedia. Thats hardly a "scientific" explanation.

You are a riot, laddie. And your reading comprehension is not all that good.

Oh! so thats why you didnt answer me! I should spent all my time on revleft.com reading about "class struggle", "dialectical materialism" and "capitalist exploitation"

No laddie, never said that.
I notice with not a little confusion that you sem to think that revleft is the pinnacle of wisdom, and I wouldn't be surprised if you already spend quite a lot of time there, but that is irrelevant.
What people like you sorely need , laddie, is more life experience, getting to know people outside campus, do some real work perhaps. Maturize. It would do wonders for your health and perhaps then you might widen your horizon from just getting all your intellectual input from people used to being served dinner by servants with white gloves...

It amazes me how marxists can consider to be open to new ideas other than their own to be "unhealthy".

Laddie, I think a lot of things amazes you.
And new ideas? New? New??
Laddie, please learn some history.

Maybe you are right, to people like you LIBERTY is an alien concept

Toffs really shouldn't speak or write to loud about liberty. Even if they were served liberty on a silver plate, wrapped in gold and served by their white-gloved servants, they wouldn't recognize it. I suppose that is what one gets before shop classes become mandatory in universities...

@Integral and other serious people: I am sorry to let you down, but I hope you understand that if I am powerless to execute any authority over a thread of this character, it can't function. Perhaps I can come back to you in PMs. After all, there is where the good people usually are found.

My conclusion is that unfortunately this forum is not mature to such a topic. Let's stick to endless discussions about abortion and balanced budgets, scorn Mugabe and Chavez and post tacky images of half-pretty girls. And behave in very which way you want.
Kids today are really too much coddled with. Perhaps I better start a thread on that instead.
I have learnt my lesson. It's not a happy but a useful one.

 

[Mathilda]

Well, people, seeing the diastrous way this thread is straying along, I will arrange for it to be turned into an ex-thread.

Moderator Action: As requested.