Ask a Russian

[red_elk]

So depends on how much you enjoy sanctions. Can't really force Russia out but Russia can't force people to trade with it either.

There were no serious economic sanctions for Crimea IIRC. Only toothless blocking entrance to the US and EU for some individuals.

The main problem really is say some future Ukrainian president convinced NATO to let Ukraine join.
There's Russian troops on Ukraine's territory (Donbass, Crimea) and I'm sure you know about what the articles on NATO say about that.

They say don't accept the countries with unsolved territorial disputes into the alliance.
Not to mention, ongoing civil wars.

 

[red_elk]

Has it been determined whether Khrushchev's decree for the transfer of Crimea was constitutional, or if it was definitely done without a quorum present to make it valid at that time?

IIRC it wasn't constitutional, he simply ordered to do it. But I'm not familiar with all legal details.

 

[Zardnaar]

There were no economic sanctions for Crimea IIRC. Only toothless blocking entrance to the US and EU for some individuals.


They say don't accept the countries with unsolved territorial disputes into the alliance.
Not to mention, ongoing civil wars.

Yeah but theoretically they could.

More than a few Russians have been killed in Putin's foreign adventures.

The former Republics are sovereign nation's now. If they want to join NATO or the EU so be it. If they don't want to that's on them.

Obviously countries break up all the time but ethnic minorities were an excuse used a lot in 19tg and 20th century for land grabs.

Obviously it's not an ideal world.

 

[Zardnaar]

IIRC it wasn't constitutional, he simply ordered to do it. But I'm not familiar with all legal details.

It's not like the USSR or Russia paid attention to their own constitutions.

 

[Ferocitus]

There's Russian troops on Ukraine's territory (Donbass, Crimea) and I'm sure you know about what the articles on NATO say about that.

I hope you're not relying on former supreme commander Gen. Philip Breedlove's assessments of numbers?

Retired U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, until recently the supreme commander
of NATO forces in Europe, plotted in private to overcome President Barack Obama’s
reluctance to escalate military tensions with Russia over the war in Ukraine in
2014, according to apparently hacked emails from Breedlove’s Gmail account that
were posted on a new website called DC Leaks.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/

In previous instances, German officials believed Breedlove overestimated Russian
forces along the border with Ukraine by as many as 20,000 troops and found that
the general had falsely claimed that several Russian military assets near the
Ukrainian border were part of a special build-up in preparation for a large-scale
invasion of the country. In fact, much of the Russian military equipment
identified by Breedlove, the Germans said, had been stored there well before the
revolution in Ukraine.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/

Former NATO Commander Philip Breedlove defended himself on Saturday after The
Intercept reported on leaked emails that showed him plotting to push President
Obama to escalate tensions with Russia. “I think what you see is a commander
doing what commanders ought to do,” Breedlove told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/06...-to-escalate-tensions-with-russia/?comments=1

 

[Ferocitus]

It's not like the USSR or Russia paid attention to their own constitutions.

They're guidelines, not absolute laws on conduct.
Otherwise the "liberty" part of the US constitution would not have allowed slavery to become so established.

 

[Zardnaar]

I hope you're not relying on former supreme commander Gen. Philip Breedlove's assessments of numbers?

Retired U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, until recently the supreme commander
of NATO forces in Europe, plotted in private to overcome President Barack Obama’s
reluctance to escalate military tensions with Russia over the war in Ukraine in
2014, according to apparently hacked emails from Breedlove’s Gmail account that
were posted on a new website called DC Leaks.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/

In previous instances, German officials believed Breedlove overestimated Russian
forces along the border with Ukraine by as many as 20,000 troops and found that
the general had falsely claimed that several Russian military assets near the
Ukrainian border were part of a special build-up in preparation for a large-scale
invasion of the country. In fact, much of the Russian military equipment
identified by Breedlove, the Germans said, had been stored there well before the
revolution in Ukraine.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/

Former NATO Commander Philip Breedlove defended himself on Saturday after The
Intercept reported on leaked emails that showed him plotting to push President
Obama to escalate tensions with Russia. “I think what you see is a commander
doing what commanders ought to do,” Breedlove told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/06...-to-escalate-tensions-with-russia/?comments=1

Not surprised. I don't think there's vast numbers if Russian troops in Donbass.

But it's not really believable rebels can get hold of modern weapons en masse.

 

[red_elk]

They are not rebels anymore. They were reorganized into armed forces, with fairly modern equipment.
Also strange, if there are so many Russian troops, why recent POW exchanges were mostly Ukrainian citizens from both sides.

 

[Ferocitus]

Not surprised. I don't think there's vast numbers if Russian troops in Donbass.

But it's not really believable rebels can get hold of modern weapons en masse.

If Russia wanted to move troops in they could mobilise significant numbers.
Supplying weapons is another matter. That's done every day by many countries (e.g. France, UK, USA, China, Germany? and several others)

How Gen. Breedlove wasn't prosecuted for treason (he tried to get the US involved in a war by directly lying to the President and Congress!) is surprising.
BTW, another exagerrator, Luke Harding from the The Guardian, wrote an article (without photos or corroboration) that 50,000 tanks were massed on the Ukraine border before the Donbass revolt.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: everyone bleating about "oppressed minorities" in Crimea hasn't given two shakes for the Tatars.

 

[red_elk]

everyone bleating about "oppressed minorities"

Except you, I don't see anyone bleating about "oppressed minorities" here.

 

[Zardnaar]

Except you, I don't see anyone bleating about "oppressed minorities" here.

Tatars have been getting crapped on for a long time.

If Russia is playing fun and games in Donbass and Crimea you're leaving yourself wide open to someone doing it back to you.

Ukraine for example supplies weapons to some group for Beslan 2.0.

Every now and then there's terrorist strikes in Russia da? Ukraine can't fight Russia but I'd Putin's pumping in weapons and a few men there's plenty of old AJs and explosives in the Ukraine that can make there way back into Russia.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Except you, I don't see anyone bleating about "oppressed minorities" here.

And ain't that telling.

 

[red_elk]

Ukraine for example supplies weapons to some group for Beslan 2.0.

Seriously? What group it is?

 

[Ferocitus]

Putin did not annex Crimea. Crimeans did everything to reunite with Russia by themselves and Putin had only to accept that and to secure the formalities. If he did not, surely, that would be the end of him as a politician.

Everything Covid related is fake. Its danger is fake. Its damage is fake. While anti-Covid measures damage is unmeasurable.

LOLOLOLOL
Depite the many differences between the West and Russia and China, it's amazing that the overwhelming majority of medicos and scientists are able to unite, across the globe so quickly, to come up with what you think is spurious, dangerous nonsense. I wonder how they manage to do that? Zoom? Tik tok?

 

[Zardnaar]

Seriously? What group it is?

None but if Russia wants to play fun and games in Donbass and Crimea Ukraine can do the same right?

I'm sure there's some groups in Russia that would love to get some missiles, explosives, anti tank rockets etc.

Americans might give the Ukrainians some weapons how do you feel if they directly gave weapons to people inside Russia proper?

 

[red_elk]

None but if Russia wants to play fun and games in Donbass and Crimea Ukraine can do the same right?

Russia is blowing up trains in Kiev or seizing Ukrainian kids as hostages?
Supporting terrorism is a very serious crime, if Ukraine caught organizing or supporting terrorist attack, it would not only destroy all international support they have, but also justify Russia's military action against them.

 

[Ferocitus]

Ukraine for example supplies weapons to some group for Beslan 2.0.

Where did you get that from?
If it's true (which I doubt!) then the consequences for the Ukraine will be far, far greater than losing Crimea and Donbass.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Divide et impera. That’s what all this unnecessary minority stuff is about.

Every now and then there's terrorist strikes in Russia da?

Last one I heard about was done by a radical anarcho-marxist in the Arkhangelsk oblast via self-made explosive. Surely, an ultra-marxist fanatic would not share nor side himself with the modern fascisto-oligarchic Ukrainian ideology, nor the Western vision of the reality.

 

[Ferocitus]

None but if Russia wants to play fun and games in Donbass and Crimea Ukraine can do the same right?

I'm sure there's some groups in Russia that would love to get some missiles, explosives, anti tank rockets etc.

Americans might give the Ukrainians some weapons how do you feel if they directly gave weapons to people inside Russia proper?

America might supply Ukraine with weapons now, but previously they were very worried that those weapons wouldn't stay in the hands of Ukrainians. The place is so corrupt that they would find their way over to the other side for a rouble, or a dollar or some other country's coin. A lek of principles maybe?