[RD] War in Ukraine: Other topics

[Verbose]

france was spending 5% between 1950 and '70 , fighting two major colonial wars

At war, while spending on it's "force the frappe".

The British almost ruined themselves in the 60's by insisting on spending like the Empire was never going to end, and Britian being a Great Power all other evidence not withstanding, fluctuating between 4 and 7% och GDP spent. The 7+% certainly coincided with the Falkland war, i.e. open warfare is expensive.

It takes open war and nukes to get to those kinds of numbers.

Successful credible deterrence is cheaper, since it only involves the cost of open warfare it if fails.

 

[red_elk]

And do not ever come here to suddenly declare Russia is no longer a threat or something .

I heard Macron said something about "restoring dialogue with Russia".
And Merz, all of a sudden, talks about "no military solution to the Ukrainian conflict".

German chancellor thanks Turkish president for his diplomatic efforts for Russia-Ukraine peace

Germany expects Türkiye to use its influence on Russia to persuade Putin to come to negotiating table, Chancellor Merz says at press conference after NATO summit - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

They'll ridicule Trump and then do whatever he says.

 

[r16]

nobody doing imperialism when the market can't bear it . It is going to be Trump's America , fascist to the bone , doing the imperialism of selling weapons to anyone that comes .

 

[Snowygerry]

You are not going to have it both ways , right ? If Trump says 5% and his cronies say yes , you are going to do it at 5% . (…)

Feel free to start a thread about the Belgian federal budget, I meet you there.

 

[r16]

you crushing some ignoramus with your budgetary expertise , in a grand scheme of things , means far little than you seem to be imagining . Trump couldn't get his 500 billions from minerals Ukraine didn't have in the first place , it will come from 5% you people will be paying because Russia .

and your elites are already in it . You in Europe will not replace America , you will not be plundering the world American style , even the concept was invented in Europe .

but yeah , you can always stage a coup or two . Promise , ı won't be commenting on it on how Putin fomented it .

 

[Verbose]

I heard Macron said something about "restoring dialogue with Russia".
And Merz, all of a sudden, talks about "no military solution to the Ukrainian conflict".

German chancellor thanks Turkish president for his diplomatic efforts for Russia-Ukraine peace

Germany expects Türkiye to use its influence on Russia to persuade Putin to come to negotiating table, Chancellor Merz says at press conference after NATO summit - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

They'll ridicule Trump and then do whatever he says.

Does Germany feel strong?

Does Russia feel threatened?

That's the operative level on which this might eventually matter.

 

[Verbose]

nobody doing imperialism when the market can't bear it . It is going to be Trump's America , fascist to the bone , doing the imperialism of selling weapons to anyone that comes .

So you mean Russia is doing it because it is raking it in hand over fist like this?

 

[r16]

the narrative you were peddling was about Europe going like Dot dot Trump! Dot dot Russia! We are going 10% and we will swamp the Reds! Apparently there are no such declarations today as of yet . Russian troll is not a solution to your problems , let me tell you in some civilized manner . You either mobilize and fight Putin . Or shut up and pay Trump . You are not getting anything without paying .

 

[Verbose]

the narrative you were peddling was about Europe going like Dot dot Trump! Dot dot Russia! We are going 10% and we will swamp the Reds! Apparently there are no such declarations today as of yet . Russian troll is not a solution to your problems , let me tell you in some civilized manner . You either mobilize and fight Putin . Or shut up and pay Trump . You are not getting anything without paying .

Oh come on, you have been posting brain-rot memes re what the conflict might be about – no brain engagement necessary on your part.

Now you are now talking about things going on in your brain, but with no actual relation to anything I have claimed or implied.

 

[r16]

for those who don't have English as their first language , you were foremost in a group that set the tone in Civfanatics Off Topic on how the Russians were inhuman before the specific word was disliked by the moderators . If NATO is going up to 5% , you , in a normal world , supposed to be happy about how the Russians will eventually be destroyed . Instead we are seeing outright rejection and stuff from vocal Europeans . As if they were rubbing their hands with glee in anticipation of huge weapon sales to fools that would go to 10% .

 

[Verbose]

If you make bad faith interpretations of other people, misrepresenting them and their arguments, don't expect much in the form of actual engagement.

Rubbish in, rubbish out.

 

[r16]

now that ı am neither a Russian nor a troll lack of engagement is of no concern to me .

though ı will happily remind that you have sworn to volunteer , probably either for Sweden or France when the Russians come . Doubled or tripled defence budgets specifically when Americans are so unreliable should have made you happy .

Moderator Action: Please stop derailing this thread. leif

 

[soundjata]

Fellows,
Don't you be fighting around tiny technical nuances in the machine.
Embrace it all!

Clowns are clowning in their fancy costumes (Sir why don't you wear a suit?)
Like sunflowers, they turn their face in unison (towards an adorable obscenity)
Nato on Wednesday, China defense club on Thursday. I'm sure west Africa colonels will have their meeting too.
Just give me your money. r16 is correct. Just give me your goddamn money.

Power of the people? No.
Power against people.

I'm tired of reciting evidences.
Everyone has been swallowing so many blue pills they have turned blue inside and outside.

The economy does not work with only winners. (elite? no. predators? yes.)
For every winner we need 1000 losers to pay for drinks, food and more blue pills.

These clowns decide. On our behalf. To spend our money. Our work. Our pain.
(To appease momentarily an orange buffoon? Are you kidding me??)
Spend it on destruction. Bombs in the desert. Surveillance systems. Noise. Pollution. Slaughter. Corruption. Technical norms. Reinforcement of the status quo. Mediocrity and villainy are the standard everywhere I look.

Is this a failure?
Yes. The failure of capitalism.
Accumulation of wealth/power is destroying humanity.

To every problem there is a solution though.
In fact there are many!
One of them is the most elegant

 

[banzay13]

Fellows,
Don't you be fighting around tiny technical nuances in the machine.
Embrace it all!

Clowns are clowning in their fancy costumes (Sir why don't you wear a suit?)
Like sunflowers, they turn their face in unison (towards an adorable obscenity)
Nato on Wednesday, China defense club on Thursday. I'm sure west Africa colonels will have their meeting too.
Just give me your money. r16 is correct. Just give me your goddamn money.

Power of the people? No.
Power against people.

I'm tired of reciting evidences.
Everyone has been swallowing so many blue pills they have turned blue inside and outside.

The economy does not work with only winners. (elite? no. predators? yes.)
For every winner we need 1000 losers to pay for drinks, food and more blue pills.

These clowns decide. On our behalf. To spend our money. Our work. Our pain.
(To appease momentarily an orange buffoon? Are you kidding me??)
Spend it on destruction. Bombs in the desert. Surveillance systems. Noise. Pollution. Slaughter. Corruption. Technical norms. Reinforcement of the status quo. Mediocrity and villainy are the standard everywhere I look.

Is this a failure?
Yes. The failure of capitalism.
Accumulation of wealth/power is destroying humanity.

To every problem there is a solution though.
In fact there are many!
One of them is the most elegant

It's offtopic coz, but I checked via DeepSeek and got average Croatia or Hungary level of live for every human on Earth. Witch is very very high (from history of human view), considering how many peoples now doesn't have anything.
So, on current stage we (humans) reached level of Edem for everyone. But...

 

[soundjata]

Deepseek.
Absolutely.
Brilliant!

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Please note Leif's comment above and get back on the topic.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-27/putin-says-russia-to-seek-defense-cuts-though-it-depends-on-war

Putin now says he wants to cut the defense budget. It's interesting that he says this right after the NATO summit. He's probably very scared about European countries increasing their military spending and wants, in some way, to dampen the enthusiasm most members showed at the summit. Well, he should certainly be concerned if the proposed 5% is ever reached.

 

[Verbose]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-27/putin-says-russia-to-seek-defense-cuts-though-it-depends-on-war

Putin now says he wants to cut the defense budget. It's interesting that he says this right after the NATO summit. He's probably very scared about European countries increasing their military spending and wants, in some way, to dampen the enthusiasm most members showed at the summit. Well, he should certainly be concerned if the proposed 5% is ever reached.

He might just be running out of road, spending-wise. We just don't know in detail – not so much how much Russia has to spend, more like how willing to accept the economic hurt of spending – how much more resources Russia can pump into its war. What we can say for certain is that war like this is not cheap.

Russia had an official expense figure for the military stuff for 2025 - it has burned through that in the first quarter of 2025. Not that not spending on the war is going to be an option for Putin.

 

[Snowygerry]

Russian threat sees Eastern Europe bring back land mines – DW – 06/29/2025

Five out of six countries along the border with Russia and Belarus plan to secure their borders with land mines, aiming to protect NATO's eastern flank from a possible attack. But the plan is highly controversial.

www.dw.com

New 'Iron Curtain'

From Finnish Lapland in the north to the Polish province of Lublin in the south, the border between the five NATO states and Russia and Belarus is around 3,500 kilometers (2150 miles) long. Most of these areas are sparsely populated and densely forested, making them difficult to monitor the area.
Nevertheless, there is great concern about a possible Russian attack on NATO territory. According to a report in the British newspaper The Telegraph, NATO experts are already analyzing which areas could be targeted.
The aim of the NATO countries is to maximize deterrence: together with other border security measures, the mines are intended to inflict such heavy losses on the advancing enemy in the shortest possible time that Moscow would refrain from a prolonged war.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

If anything I find it amazing they haven't done it until now.