Quackers
The Frog
You mean it was organised by the local government. Basically the state.
Ask an Anarchist!
- Thread starter civver_764
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Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
In Scotland, the parish was a democratic organisation, and far more effective for it. The Presbyterian model is surprisingly similar to the Orthodox Marxist vision of a Worker's State; not anarchistic, as such, but far from the hierarchical centralism of the Anglican or Catholic churches.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
If you can't tell the difference, me explaining it to you is going to make no difference, either.
Quackers
The Frog
How do you treat people who refuse to co-operate with the syndicates/communes. Who hoard resources, make heiracachel organisations with other individuals and try and destroy the egalitarian "nice" syndicates.
civver_764
Deity
We'll refuse to cooperate with them. Guess who that hurts more.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Given that the process of transition to libertarian socialism consists entirely of dealing with these people- that it is, in fact, the entire point of anarcho-syndicalism- I'm not sure why you consider that to be some fatal, overlooked flaw.
RedRalph
Deity
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Nice dodge. If you got what you wanted (survival of the fittest), you'd last about five minutes.
Quackers
The Frog
I'm not familiar with the transition phase of libertarian socialism.
How do they deal with the counter-revolutionarries?
Quackers
The Frog
Then it isn't collectivist-anarchy it is genuine anarchy.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Anti-statist socialism, in essence; social anarchism is the most well-known strain(s), although others exist.
That depends on whether or not they are actually engaged in revolutionary activity. Not all radical socialists are Leninists, after all.
...Pardon?
Quackers
The Frog
If organisations exist which are not syndicates then it is a pluralist anarchy not the pure-strain socialist only type anarchy.
I want to know how you deal with people who don't co-operate with syndicates and who form organisations opposed to your socialist goals - lets say, based on profit?
I want to know how you deal with people who don't co-operate with syndicates and who form organisations opposed to your socialist goals - lets say, based on profit?
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Nobody ever suggested that anarchism- or any form of socialism, for that matter- had to be universal or uniform.
Convince their workers to abandon them, convince consumers to boycott them, convince suppliers and distributors to refuse to deal with them. Syndicalism, in essence.
Quackers
The Frog
What happens if the profiteers hire a private military army and crush the syndicates then form a state.
How do you deal with that?
How do you deal with that?
civver_764
Deity
Where are they going to get the means to hire a private army?
Even if they did we would just fight back.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
QUESTION:
One of the biggest problems of anarchist movements in the Russian Civil War was the unwillingness to cooperate with one another. Makhnovshchina, for example, fought and ruthlessly suppressed other anarchist communes. The Siberian communes failed to cooperate in any meaningful way, either against the Whites or the Reds, and thus were taken apart piecemeal by both sides. In what way do anarchists think their ideology, when put into practice, will not devolve into feudalism and regionalism, with communes warring against one another, or being conquered piecemeal because of their inability, unwillingness, or indifference towards inter-communal cooperation?
One of the biggest problems of anarchist movements in the Russian Civil War was the unwillingness to cooperate with one another. Makhnovshchina, for example, fought and ruthlessly suppressed other anarchist communes. The Siberian communes failed to cooperate in any meaningful way, either against the Whites or the Reds, and thus were taken apart piecemeal by both sides. In what way do anarchists think their ideology, when put into practice, will not devolve into feudalism and regionalism, with communes warring against one another, or being conquered piecemeal because of their inability, unwillingness, or indifference towards inter-communal cooperation?
Quackers
The Frog
It isn't out of the realms of possibility. Maybe the capitalist state next door sends them arms and equipment.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
More or less.
I think that a lot of that came down to the fact that those Anarchists were in the Kropotkinite strain, and so lacked a proper understanding of class or of capitalist society, and so the ability to make any meaningful moves towards class conciousness and so an effective socialist society. (Also, that their Anarchism was often a bit half-formed, containing as much of a peasant "clubmen" mentality as a true revolutionary one.)
If you look at the Anarcho-Syndicalists in Spain, who were very concious of class issues, you'll see that they cooperated more effectively with both each other and with non-Anarchist forces. Aside from anything else, they had abandoned the old Anarchist conviction that the state necessarily precedes the ruling class, moving closer to a Council Communist-style understanding of the state and ruling class as mutually re-enforcing. Indeed, in practice there is very little difference between Anarcho-Syndicalism and "Left" forms of Communism, or even some of the libertarian forms of Leninism, at least in the short term.
Quackers
The Frog
If the population needs class conciousness for left-wing anarchy to succeed.
-How much understanding is needed to achieve this level?
-Can everybody be class conciousness? Do you need to be able to write a 20,000 word dissertion on class to be conscious of it?
I would imagine Britain is probably the most classist society in the world - you can distinguise a man's class based on his accent - so why has far-left ideas comprehensively failed in the UK?
-How much understanding is needed to achieve this level?
-Can everybody be class conciousness? Do you need to be able to write a 20,000 word dissertion on class to be conscious of it?
I would imagine Britain is probably the most classist society in the world - you can distinguise a man's class based on his accent - so why has far-left ideas comprehensively failed in the UK?
RedRalph
Deity
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you told us a while ago Labour were bringing in as many immigrants as possible to destroy english culture and implement extreme left wing politics
Quackers
The Frog
Bringing in immigrants for votes mostly. Immigrantst typically vote for left-wing party.
