Ask An Atlanteologist

[Ziggy Stardust]

When posting videos, only include the part after "=" between the youtube links. In case of your first vid: "ZYfNYcush4M"

 

[illram]

Wouldn't a highly advanced civilization that ended 10,500 years ago leave more "stuff?" If our civilization immediately ended tomorrow, wouldn't some of it still be lingering around 10,000 years from now, which would indisputably prove our existence? Archaeologists, oil companies, mining companies, everyone is digging into the Earth, you would figure we would be finding more advanced ruins/gadgets, and so on other than things which have a readily explainable origin. (E.g., Pyramids, Sphinx, etc.) If this civilization was highly advanced you would think at least some of the stuff they were making would be longer lasting.

If our cities rusted for 10,000 years there would still be something left--foundations, some remnants of high quality steel, thick old stone and masonry, inscriptions, maybe some digitized stuff if it was already in some preserved area, etc.

What happened to this alleged civilization? How did it expire? Is there any verifiable archaeological proof?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I think that science would not last a day, if they gave up the part of the method that speculates and predicts items that fall into the realm of the unknown.

So if "they" (who is "they"?) gave up the scientific method, science itself would collapse? The principles and laws of nature would remain, no matter what they were called, and no matter if anyone understood them.

Well i think the OP asked for it asserting that Evolution=Religion. Bad way to start a thread if you dont want to see it derail into a Religion vs Science discussion.

That said there are some unexplained facts there which are curious to say the least but Atlanteology looks like more a religion than anything else, with Erich von Daniken as its prophet and where every single thing, from a bizarrely shaped rock to some remote African myth is related to ancient aliens.

Carl Sagan had this to say about bizarre claims and pseudoscience: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." EltonJ, you are making extraordinary claims. Let's see your extraordinary evidence. I studied anthropology, archaeology, physical & cultural geography, and classical history in college. I've been an astronomy buff for over 40 years, and was cured of any lingering nonsensical regard for astrology over 30 years ago. I've also read the bible, and am atheist. Therefore, I'm very skeptical of all this, and my question is this: What evidence can and will you provide to convince me that any of this "Atlanteology" stuff has historical or scientific merit?

 

[CuddlyBear]

What nonsense is this? Your ideas are absolutely insane. Completely batsnip insane.

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[Rashiminos]

Wouldn't a highly advanced civilization that ended 10,500 years ago leave more "stuff?" If our civilization immediately ended tomorrow, wouldn't some of it still be lingering around 10,000 years from now, which would indisputably prove our existence? Archaeologists, oil companies, mining companies, everyone is digging into the Earth, you would figure we would be finding more advanced ruins/gadgets, and so on other than things which have a readily explainable origin. (E.g., Pyramids, Sphinx, etc.) If this civilization was highly advanced you would think at least some of the stuff they were making would be longer lasting.

If our cities rusted for 10,000 years there would still be something left--foundations, some remnants of high quality steel, thick old stone and masonry, inscriptions, maybe some digitized stuff if it was already in some preserved area, etc.

What happened to this alleged civilization? How did it expire? Is there any verifiable archaeological proof?

Many things would be completely destroyed while others would be altered to a state that seems natural (large stone structures, seams of iron, clay and dust). Remains have to be well preserved, which isn't a given in the timescale involved (comet/meteorite bombardment). Various mounds don't look manmade at first glance.

There is too much scientific evidence against the Romance of the Stone Age. When you find lights that don't turn off under the sea in Cuba, and in a "cave" in New Zealand; or when you find that the Flower of Life was laser etched in stone at the Osirion; or you find lead piping that isn't supposed to be in a lake in China that dates older than Roman lead piping; things start to get suspicious and you start to think that the Mainstream story of the Romance of the Stone Age is not the right story.

You said something about providing links. Do you have links for those?
(lights in Cuba, laser-etched flower, lead-piping in China, ...)

 

[illram]

Many things would be completely destroyed while others would be altered to a state that seems natural (large stone structures, seams of iron, clay and dust). Remains have to be well preserved, which isn't a given in the timescale involved (comet/meteorite bombardment). Various mounds don't look manmade at first glance.


You said something about providing links. Do you have links for those?
(lights in Cuba, laser-etched flower, lead-piping in China, ...)

Well, sure. But with the level of digging and excavation we perform all over the planet--much of it specifically looking for stuff like this--you would figure we would have come across, something, anything, that could verifiably point to a highly advanced ancient civilization. But we haven't. All the so-called finds many pseudo-archaeologists/historians claim as evidence for ancient advanced civs, like the Baghdad Battery and what have you, have alternative realistic explanations that make much more sense than the fantastic claims we hear so often on the internet or see on Buzzfeed lists of "top 10 unexplained whatever."

Hence my question; I would love to hear if there is some new verifiable evidence for some heretofore unknown ancient civilization, since I have not heard of any yet and I love reading about new scientific and archaeological finds.

 

[Arakhor]

6. The Bible. Particularly Genesis chapters 3 through 7.

You don't want a debate about creationism and yet you cite Genesis as a source? I don't think that's terribly wise.

 

[Rashiminos]

Well, sure. But with the level of digging and excavation we perform all over the planet--much of it specifically looking for stuff like this--you would figure we would have come across, something, anything, that could verifiably point to a highly advanced ancient civilization. But we haven't. All the so-called finds many pseudo-archaeologists/historians claim as evidence for ancient advanced civs, like the Baghdad Battery and what have you, have alternative realistic explanations that make much more sense than the fantastic claims we hear so often on the internet or see on Buzzfeed lists of "top 10 unexplained whatever."

I think you mean "could only point to a highly advanced ancient civilization." The suggestion is that we've already found such artifacts, but cannot refute "alternative realistic explanations" that make "much more sense." (Ockham's Razor).

 

[Harv]

6. The Bible. Particularly Genesis chapters 3 through 7.

You don't want a debate about creationism and yet you cite Genesis as a source?

At least include Chapter 11.

 

[Borachio]

Are you an Atlantean?

Have you met any Atlanteans? Were Atlanteans human beings, humanoid, or alien?

How do we get to Atlantis?

Is Atlantis just a metaphor?

Honestly, I'm just too confused to think about this subject logically, or write coherent sentences any more. (I'm not sure I ever could.)

 

[Leonel]

Did Atlantians have their own burgers and if so what did they make them out of and what condiments did they use?

 

[illram]

I think you mean "could only point to a highly advanced ancient civilization." The suggestion is that we've already found such artifacts, but cannot refute "alternative realistic explanations" that make "much more sense." (Ockham's Razor).

Sure. I love crazy stuff, but I want science-y proofy-ness of crazy stuff. If someone wants to tell me about Atlantis they best be all scienced up first.

 

[Senethro]

Hi EltonJ,

Are all mainstream scientists deluded, coerced, conspiring or evil?

Are you able to point to some other guys theory that is completely insane and is in no way possible to be true? Like Fomenko's New Chronology?

Best regards,
Sen

 

[Lillefix]

So, do you recommend any good books on Atlantis? Fiction and non fiction.

 

[Cheetah]

Interesting...


First of all, I'd like to say that I too take offence of your suggestion that science is somehow religious. It is not. Specifically because science evolves, sometimes fundamentally, with new facts and better understanding. True, it may take several decades for an idea to become accepted (plate tectonics, evolution, dinosaurs, etc.), but it does change. That makes all the difference compared to religions.

I won't have this thread into a religious debate between Evolution and Young Earth Creationism. The proponents of both theories and their debates are highly religious in nature and are of little consequence to this thread.

They act like it. Some act like fanatical Evangelists *Cough* Richard Dawkins *cough!*, others less like fanatics. But yes, by what I have observed of the fruit of their labor, they are religious.

If or when enough evidence has been found for aspects of Atlanteology, you'll even have Dawkins argue the case for you! Until that time comes, you'll have to argue your case against sceptical scientists, in much the same way that proponents of plate tectonics, evolution and dinosaurs once had to do.

It would be highly appreciated if you didn't conflate our best source of real knowledge of reality with dogmatic, unchanging faith based explanations.


And a tiny, but funny thing I just had to comment on:

Electromagnetism is 10 x 10^39 times more powerful than Gravity.

10 x 10^39 would of course be 10^40... Though the actual value is closer to 10^36, for whatever that matters.


And then I had some questions about Atlanteology:

1.
I just need to have one thing cleared up: From your description, it seems that there are several competing theories and divergent interpretations of the exact nature of Atlanteology, what the different facts mean, and how they should all be understood. And that you're primarily giving us your understanding of the subject. Is that correct?

2.

The Archaeology based on the claims of Civilization before the Flood, or after.

With 'the Flood', you are referring to a global, cataclysmic flood, much like the one described in the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Book of Genesis, yes? Is that a fundamental part of Atlanteology, or are there interpretations which do not subscribe to such an event happening?

3.

Yes. But only to a limited extent on how Ancient Aliens influenced Atlantis. Most of the time, it centers on Man, but I've been interviewing a "soul" (soul as in a man, not a ghost) who had been there -- and he said that Ancient Aliens were much more involved.

I'm a bit perplexed as to why you wrote 'soul'. For I understand that this was a currently living human being your interviewed?

If so, did this person claim to have been alive at the time of - I hope this will be the right term to use? - Atlantis? Or was that somehow a previous existence? Has he also been alive/experiencing the time between Atlantis and now?


4.

5. The Electric Universe as it pertains to the Solar System and only the Solar System.

Why 'only' the Solar system? Surely the the Theory of the Electic Universe must be applicable outside of the Solar system as well?

5.

Although regular electricity isn't the right term, what you are looking for is Relativity. The Electric Universe theory is 12,000 years senior to Einstein's Theory of Relativity. But like both Evolution and Young Earth Creationism; both are correct, there is no either this/or that about them. Just that the Theory of Relativity makes claims that the Electric Universe flatly denies, like the existence of black holes and neutron stars. However, the Electric Cosmos is not our concern; it's the Solar System that is.

You're losing me here. You're saying that the Theory of Evolution and Young Earth Creationism are both right, and comparing that situation to how the Theory of Relativity and the Theory of the Electric Universe are also both right. But then you go on to say that ToR make claims that ToEU flatly denies!?

In other words, it seems to me that you're saying that ToR and ToEU are both right and still one of them are wrong... And while we're at it, I would also claim that ToE and YEC are incompatible, so that only one of them can be correct as well.

And then this didn't make much sense to me?

6.

• World Wide Language
• Flower of Life
• Osirion
• The Hollow Earth, or Shambala, or Eden -- (I know Shamballa and Eden as mythical places, but would Atlanteolgy suppose that they were real places? And what si the Hollow Earth?)

You're using lots of terms I - and I'm guessing most others here as well - am not familiar with. Would you mind explaining them a bit more when you're using them?


That's all from me for now. I remain sceptical, but I'm interested to learn more.

 

[Goodfella]

Electromagnetism is 10 x 10^39 times more powerful than Gravity. It's the force that drives the Universe. How the theory links back to Atlanteology is because of David Talbot. David Talbot is probably the Atlanteologist's best friend in Mythology and Astronomy right now, because of his book "the Saturn Myth." What he talks about in the Saturn Myth has strong implications for History.

Although regular electricity isn't the right term, what you are looking for is Relativity. The Electric Universe theory is 12,000 years senior to Einstein's Theory of Relativity. But like both Evolution and Young Earth Creationism; both are correct, there is no either this/or that about them. Just that the Theory of Relativity makes claims that the Electric Universe flatly denies, like the existence of black holes and neutron stars. However, the Electric Cosmos is not our concern; it's the Solar System that is.

What is the electric universe theory and how does the existence of the electromagnetic force conflict with relativity in your eyes? This is especially befuddling when you consider that relativity actually explains electromagnetism. And I'm still confused about what any of this has to do with Atlantis.

 

[Domen]

If our civilization immediately ended tomorrow, wouldn't some of it still be lingering around 10,000 years from now, which would indisputably prove our existence?

Mount Rushmore, Hoover Dam, Great Wall of China:


Link to video.

 

[Traitorfish]

My question is a two parter.

First, how much of this did you get from Stargate?

Second, the answer is "all of it", isn't it?

 

[EltonJ]

Wouldn't a highly advanced civilization that ended 10,500 years ago leave more "stuff?" If our civilization immediately ended tomorrow, wouldn't some of it still be lingering around 10,000 years from now, which would indisputably prove our existence? Archaeologists, oil companies, mining companies, everyone is digging into the Earth, you would figure we would be finding more advanced ruins/gadgets, and so on other than things which have a readily explainable origin. (E.g., Pyramids, Sphinx, etc.) If this civilization was highly advanced you would think at least some of the stuff they were making would be longer lasting.

If our cities rusted for 10,000 years there would still be something left--foundations, some remnants of high quality steel, thick old stone and masonry, inscriptions, maybe some digitized stuff if it was already in some preserved area, etc.

What happened to this alleged civilization? How did it expire? Is there any verifiable archaeological proof?

They have left a lot of evidence. Those are the ones that can only be verified because many of them are in private collections. You'll never see something such as this in a public collection. It's just too embarrassing for museums to show it on display.

I just need to have one thing cleared up: From your description, it seems that there are several competing theories and divergent interpretations of the exact nature of Atlanteology, what the different facts mean, and how they should all be understood. And that you're primarily giving us your understanding of the subject. Is that correct?

Yes sir. Even my hypotheses conflict with others because of the lack of evidence. The only thing we typically agree on is:
-- The Civilization of Atlantis is global.

-- The advances of Atlantis eclipses our civilization.

-- There are too much artifactual evidence for anyone to discount Atlantis as a simple story.

We can agree on this point. The points where we disagree on is basically everything else. As I said, the man I'm interviewing is too embarrassing to bring up with the others in the community because no one can come forward and substantiate his story. Its frustrating to all of us that we can't decide exactly what and when it happened.

Typically, the rallying point is 10,500 B.C. -- in the Age of Leo. But that is in dispute.

With 'the Flood', you are referring to a global, cataclysmic flood, much like the one described in the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Book of Genesis, yes? Is that a fundamental part of Atlanteology, or are there interpretations which do not subscribe to such an event happening?

It's hard not to find interpretations where a World Wide Flood happened. The close of the Ice Age -- if, say perhaps the bottom of the sea floor was constant in it's geography -- says that the ancient coastlines of all continents was flooded, so in that context, it was World Wide and not Local. There are dozens of cities that are under the water, for instance. There are two in India, and about seven around the area of Morocco and Spain.

That's not counting if the other planets were a source of flood waters. To be an Atlanteologist means you're a catastrophist. This is counter to Uniformatarianism -- where the opposite is espoused.

I'm a bit perplexed as to why you wrote 'soul'. For I understand that this was a currently living human being your interviewed?

He just turned 23 yesterday.

If so, did this person claim to have been alive at the time of - I hope this will be the right term to use? - Atlantis? Or was that somehow a previous existence? Has he also been alive/experiencing the time between Atlantis and now?

I don't understand how he remembers Atlantis fully, or if I can relate to you in a way you can understand it. But I'm glad I can interview him. He's been a boon, actually. If can meet someone else who had the same experience and can relate his, the Law of Witnesses can be satisfied.

Why 'only' the Solar system? Surely the the Theory of the Electic Universe must be applicable outside of the Solar system as well?

Because the Solar System has the most impact. Particularly, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, and Mars. Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, and Mars used to be in Alignment -- straight line, north to south. Earth was fixed in Saturn's LaGrange point for an Indeterminate time. And our Ancestors back at that time saw it.

When Venus started to become unstable due to Saturn's and Mars' influence, we painted the wheel on rock, and then invented it. It was only when Mars started to become physically unstable that we ran into problems.

You're losing me here. You're saying that the Theory of Evolution and Young Earth Creationism are both right, and comparing that situation to how the Theory of Relativity and the Theory of the Electric Universe are also both right. But then you go on to say that ToR make claims that ToEU flatly denies!?

In other words, it seems to me that you're saying that ToR and ToEU are both right and still one of them are wrong... And while we're at it, I would also claim that ToE and YEC are incompatible, so that only one of them can be correct as well.

And then this didn't make much sense to me?

It would if you thought about how the debates go. Both sides assert they are true, right? Well, both sides are true. Both Evolution and YEC can co-exist if they stop with the nonsense. For us, we want one or the other, well; its both. If they can accept it's both, then they can both come together and see where they can come together.

As for the Theory of Relativity, Einstein was right in relation to matter and energy (although even his equation of e=mc^2 is called into question); but his equations for the black hole is based on Division by Zero. Ehh, you don't do that. IF you do that, you get an answer that's undefined. However, the Big Bangers get away with it.

The Electric Universe is a much simpler explanation. It relates to Atlanteology because of the above configuration that existed. The only way you can get a picture like that is through an Electrical explanation. And since I am telling you that Atlantis was a high tech civilization, it stands to reason that they had a scientific explanation of what they saw.

You're using lots of terms I - and I'm guessing most others here as well - am not familiar with. Would you mind explaining them a bit more when you're using them?

Oh, this post would be too long if I did that. I'll have to explain each in a separate post. Tell me which one you're the most curious of?

Are all mainstream scientists deluded, coerced, conspiring or evil?

No. But mired in politics? Yes.

Science is highly politicized today. Even the peer review system is politicized.

Are you able to point to some other guys theory that is completely insane and is in no way possible to be true? Like Fomenko's New Chronology?

Heard of it, but it's no concern of mine right now. I'm not ridiculing him. But I'm saying there is no way to prove it without an apolitical observer who has observed our Planet's whole history from beginning to end, and wrote it down. And had it published.

Are you an Atlantean?

no.

Have you met any Atlanteans? Were Atlanteans human beings, humanoid, or alien?

no to the first. Atlanteans are true Earth humans, Lemurians are true Earth humans.

How do we get to Atlantis?

It's not a place.

Is Atlantis just a metaphor?

Resoundingly, yes.

What evidence can and will you provide to convince me that any of this "Atlanteology" stuff has historical or scientific merit?

Do you have an open heart and mind? Both are needed. I can provide you with a lot of evidence. From clothing styles in the Neolithic Age, to the invention of the Wheel, to the World Wide Language, to ancient maps, to pole shifts.

 

[Goodfella]

Mount Rushmore, Hoover Dam, Great Wall of China:

The stuff we've left on the moon would be there for millions of years.