Astrological signs and human personalities - I need scientific explanation

[Bozo Erectus]

I need a scientific explanation why are the descriptions of the personalities of people born in particular astrological signs so accurate.

To make things clear - I don't believe in astrology, I think it is a huge pile of crap that has nothing to do with the real world. Horoscopes doesn't work and those who make them are frauds. The whole idea that cyclic movement of planets - objects which are 4.5 billion years older than the puny species of ours - can affect people's fate is ridiculous.

But one thing bugs me. Astrologists have made descriptions of the astrological signs and their moods, personalities, values etc. I was shocked when I found out that 95% of it fits on me (I am Capricorn). It fits for other people I know too.

Of course, it can't have anything to do with that astrologic bullcrap, so it has to have some scientific explanation. I need to have some reasonable argument in my arsenal for the next time I'll try to beat that superstitious nonsense out of someone's head.

So how could the part of the year you were born in affect your future personality?

Winner, I have no answer for you as to why. All I know is that the astrological description (Libra) of my personality reads like it was written by someone who knows me.

Youre wasting your time though trying to find a scientific explanation for it. Why does the explanation have to be scientific in order to be valid?

 

[Winner]

Winner, I have no answer for you as to why. All I know is that the astrological description (Libra) of my personality reads like it was written by someone who knows me.

Youre wasting your time though trying to find a scientific explanation for it. Why does the explanation have to be scientific in order to be valid?

Well, it is either scientific or invalid

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Well, it is either scientific or invalid

From your OP:

But one thing bugs me. Astrologists have made descriptions of the astrological signs and their moods, personalities, values etc. I was shocked when I found out that 95% of it fits on me (I am Capricorn). It fits for other people I know too.

Normally in science, if you have a hypothesis, perform an experiment and then get 95% of the results looked for in order to determine the validity of the hypothesis, and its repeatable by others, how would the phenomenon be classified?

 

[Winner]

From your OP:

Normally in science, if you have a hypothesis, perform an experiment and then get 95% of the results looked for in order to determine the validity of the hypothesis, and its repeatable by others, how would the phenomenon be classified?

Err, it may be true, but that doesn't mean there is no scientific explanation.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Winner, I have no answer for you as to why. All I know is that the astrological description (Libra) of my personality reads like it was written by someone who knows me.

Most of the descriptions are positive in nature, thus people are less likely to challenge them, and more easily say "yeah, that's me!".

Co-operative, diplomatic, urbane, fair, lazy, partnerships, refined, balance, grace, charm, debative, just, open-minded, social, ideas.

Lazy is the only negative one on your list. Mine had sadistic and tyrannical

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I need a scientific explanation why are the descriptions of the personalities of people born in particular astrological signs so accurate.

To make things clear - I don't believe in astrology, I think it is a huge pile of crap that has nothing to do with the real world. Horoscopes doesn't work and those who make them are frauds. The whole idea that cyclic movement of planets - objects which are 4.5 billion years older than the puny species of ours - can affect people's fate is ridiculous.

But one thing bugs me. Astrologists have made descriptions of the astrological signs and their moods, personalities, values etc. I was shocked when I found out that 95% of it fits on me (I am Capricorn). It fits for other people I know too.

Of course, it can't have anything to do with that astrologic bullcrap, so it has to have some scientific explanation. I need to have some reasonable argument in my arsenal for the next time I'll try to beat that superstitious nonsense out of someone's head.

So how could the part of the year you were born in affect your future personality?

Test: Have a friend pick a random horoscope from a random day. Cut off or hide the zodiac sign. Take an open mind with you and read the horoscope. Compare it to how much of it fits you. You might agree that much of it is you. It doesn't matter what month it comes from.

Answer: Make the zodiac as vague and as possible and fill it with positive yet generic character traits and it will fit most people's views of themselves.

Passionate? Everyone has a passion. Loyal? Humans value loyalty. Who doesn't mind their wife sleeping around? Who doesn't mind that door-to-door salesman pitching $35 of medium quality steak for $225? High potential but easily distracted? Most of us lead very busy lives. We all have "potential".

psychology is amazing. I almost wish I had gone into that instead of engineering!

 

[Winner]

Test: Have a friend pick a random horoscope from a random day. Cut off or hide the zodiac sign. Take an open mind with you and read the horoscope. Compare it to how much of it fits you. You might agree that much of it is you. It doesn't matter what month it comes from.

Again, this is not about horoscopes.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Err, it may be true, but that doesn't mean there is no scientific explanation.

You accept that the phenomenon is real and actually happening. Already youre way beyond conventional scientific thinking about astrology. The best a scientific person can come up with is 'coincidence', which basically means the same as 'I have no idea, now please go away'. A coincidence that happens to millions of people? Thats very silly, and certainly unscientific, if you ask me.

Most of the descriptions are positive in nature, thus people are less likely to challenge them, and more easily say "yeah, that's me!".

Thats not true because the descriptions of other signs dont fit with my personality, no matter how positive they might be.

Lazy is the only negative one on your list. Mine had sadistic and tyrannical

Yep, 'lazy'. Like I said, written by someone who knows me

 

[Winner]

You accept that the phenomenon is real and actually happening. Already youre way beyond conventional scientific thinking about astrology. The best a scientific person can come up with is 'coincidence', which basically means the same as 'I have no idea, now please go away'. A coincidence that happens to millions of people? Thats very silly, and certainly unscientific, if you ask me.

Again, that doesn't mean the astrological explanation is true.

You see lightning and I say it is a manifestation of God's power. Will you believe me? No? Why?! You saw the lightning, how could you possibly refuse that it's God's work?!

See what I mean?

If it is real and zodiac signs have some relevance (which means it is not just coincidence or psychologic trick), then there must be a logical (=scientific) explanation. If it is real, then astrologists simply observed it and abused it in order to make the rest of their superstitious crap look real, pretty much like priests in some ancient civilizations who learned how to predict lunar/solar eclipses and then used the knowledge to secure their position.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Hey come on, who would argue with a description of themselves that went like this:

http://mizian.com.ne.kr/englishwiz/library/names/zodiac/libra.htm#_Toc6672017

The LIBRA Man

"In my youth," said his Father, "I took to the law. And argued each case with my wife;

And the muscular strength, which it gave to my jaw, Has lasted the rest of my life."

You'll get plenty of free advice from this man. Hell have the perfect solution to all your problems and an answer for every question you ask. But there's no use expecting him to be the answer to all your girlish dreams. He'll change some of them and argue with others. A Libra male can be as cranky as a crocodile with poison ivy, and his habit of rationalizing everything, including love, will drive you to frenzy-or leave you limp with defeat.

Still, I must warn you that once you're caught and en*meshed in the Libran charm, it won't be easy to break away. Trying to escape from a bear trap is a cinch, com*pared to liberating yourself from a Libran man. If you try to run, he'll persuade you to stay with such logical, intelli*gent arguments you couldn't hope to top them unless you graduated from Harvard Law School. In addition to using his unmatched reasoning powers on you, he'll turn so sweet and gentle you'll forget the frustrating inconsistencies of his nature that upset you before. Then he'll smile at you and something will happen inside. Your heart will turn over.

From that moment on, the battle will be lost. His dreams will be your dreams, and nothing will matter so much as making him happy. You'll seek that smile and need it to survive the way a thirsty traveler needs water. Only a really hard-hearted Hannah could resist a Libran smile, and she'd have to summon all her determination to avoid being magnetized by its purity. The Libran charm is not like the hypnotic persuasion of the Scorpio. The attraction of Libra is logicul and real, not supernatural in any sense. There's no black magic about it, just common sense submission to his heavenly aura.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

You see lightning and I say it is a manifestation of God's power. Will you believe me? No? Why?! You saw the lightning, how could you possibly refuse that it's God's work?!

See what I mean?

Yes, I understand what youre saying, but at the core of your thread is the belief that astrological descriptions of personality are accurate and a real phenomenon. Its a subjective belief, science minded people have trouble with those. The existence of lightning isnt subjective though, everyone can see it. Science completely rejects your subjective truth that the decription decribes you accurately. It says that whats happening to you isnt real. You however have stated that you know its real...

If it is real and zodiac signs have some relevance (which means it is not just coincidence or psychologic trick), then there must be a logical (=scientific) explanation.

See, this is why I say faith in science is similar to religious faith.

If it is real, then astrologists simply observed it and abused it in order to make the rest of their superstitious crap look real, pretty much like priests in some ancient civilizations who learned how to predict lunar/solar eclipses and then used the knowledge to secure their position.

Again, science wont even go that far with you. Science will say that nothing is really happening here, its 'just a coincidence'.

 

[warpus]

But one thing bugs me. Astrologists have made descriptions of the astrological signs and their moods, personalities, values etc. I was shocked when I found out that 95% of it fits on me (I am Capricorn). It fits for other people I know too.

You see what you want to see; if you want to see a correlation (even subconsciously), then you will.

Case in point: my friend's mom used to make up (yes, just randomly) horoscopes for a local paper.. Nobody caught on and her 'predictions' for my sign were often surprisingly fairly accurate.

Again, science wont even go that far with you. Science will say that nothing is really happening here, its 'just a coincidence'.

If there is no evidence that there is any sort of correlation between the two, then yes, it will get written off as a coincidence.. unless some lucky shmuck does find the evidence that must exist if there is a correlation.. thus becoming famous!

 

[Winner]

You see what you want to see; if you want to see a correlation (even subconsciously), then you will.

Case in point: my friend's mom used to make up (yes, just randomly) horoscopes for a local paper.. Nobody caught on and her 'predictions' for my sign were often surprisingly fairly accurate.

For the last time,

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT HOROSCOPES AND PREDICTING FUTURE!

 

[Bozo Erectus]

He's not talking about the daily horoscope though, he's talking about personality profiles.

edit: glad to be of help Winner, but you seem to be handling it well on your own

 

[Rossiya]

I need a scientific explanation why are the descriptions of the personalities of people born in particular astrological signs so accurate.

To make things clear - I don't believe in astrology, I think it is a huge pile of crap that has nothing to do with the real world. Horoscopes doesn't work and those who make them are frauds. The whole idea that cyclic movement of planets - objects which are 4.5 billion years older than the puny species of ours - can affect people's fate is ridiculous.

But one thing bugs me. Astrologists have made descriptions of the astrological signs and their moods, personalities, values etc. I was shocked when I found out that 95% of it fits on me (I am Capricorn). It fits for other people I know too.

Of course, it can't have anything to do with that astrologic bullcrap, so it has to have some scientific explanation. I need to have some reasonable argument in my arsenal for the next time I'll try to beat that superstitious nonsense out of someone's head.

So how could the part of the year you were born in affect your future personality?

There is no scientific evidence, just like religion. You either believe or you do not.

 

[Winner]

There is no scientific evidence, just like religion. You either believe or you do not.

That's not how I work.

Either it is coincidence or some psychological trick, or it is not and it has a logical explanation, like everything else.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

If there is no evidence that there is any sort of correlation between the two, then yes, it will get written off as a coincidence..

The E-Word strikes again!

unless some lucky shmuck does find the evidence that must exist if there is a correlation.. thus becoming famous!

The point isnt about evidence though, its about exploring and learning from something thats happening to you. Let me cannibilize the 'belief' thread:

If you are in love with someone and youre both head over heels and enjoying each other, would you think its reasonable to say "Wait! I just realized theres no evidence for what we're experiencing! Full stop, baby! This cant be happening, theres no proof, its all subjective!"

No, because youre enjoying and experiencing love, which is what love is all about. Why accept the reality of a personal experience in that context, but not in others?

 

[warpus]

For the last time,

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT HOROSCOPES AND PREDICTING FUTURE!

That's what horoscopes are though - they are incredibly vague, talk a bit about the future, a bit about your personality, etc.

It's the same phenomenon.

Let's look at my sign, Scorpio:

Determined and forceful
Emotional and intuitive
Powerful and passionate
Exciting and magnetic
Jealous and resentful
Compulsive and obsessive
Secretive and obstinate

Now, most Scorpios will look at this and say: "HEY! That describes me so well!" But these things can apply to pretty much anyone - most of us share at least some of these qualities.. and dare I say that all of us have been all of these things at one point or another?

I have been secretive before!! and intuitive!! and passionate!! Wow, this is describing me perfectly

See what I'm saying? You make it vague enough and people will fall for it and start seeing truth where all there is is coincidence.

 

[warpus]

If you are in love with someone and youre both head over heels and enjoying each other, would you think its reasonable to say "Wait! I just realized theres no evidence for what we're experiencing! Full stop, baby! This cant be happening, theres no proof, its all subjective!"

No, because youre enjoying and experiencing love, which is what love is all about. Why accept the reality of a personal experience in that context, but not in others?

Because when I'm in love with someone - there IS plenty of evidence that this is true.. I get butterflies in my stomach, I feel wonderful when I'm around the other person, I want to hold her, touch her, kiss her.. If I wasn't in love with her I would know

There is also plenty of biological chemistry going on behind the scenes that is understood - so the fact that I spend so much time with her and that I feel so good when she's around cannot just be written off as coincidence.

Let me say again - if there is any truth to astrology, then there is evidence.. we just have to find it.. and we haven't yet!

 

[Kozmos]

Libra is the seventh sign of the Zodiac and associated with justice. Individuals born under this sign are thought to have a pleasant, clever, articulate, charming, charismatic, beautiful, outgoing, fair, artistic, social, refined, diplomatic, even-tempered and self-sufficient character, but on the negative side, are also thought to be persuasive, indecisive, flirtatious, extravagant, lazy, frivolous, impatient, envious, aloof, and quarrelsome.

The negative traits fit me to a T.