Atheism: A Positive Assertion That God Doesn't Exist?

[GenMarshall]

Their halberds won't stop my MG-44 gunfire.

Even if the Italian SWAT team comes after you ? The Swiss Guards are not armed with halberds you know, they are armed with machine guns as well. Yes the Church does update it's weaponry .

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Even if the Italian SWAT team comes after you ? The Swiss Guards are not armed with halberds you know, they are armed with machine guns as well. Yes the Church does update it's weaponry .

I allways thought the church liked peace

 

[Kal'thzar]

Atheists disbelieve in God.

without beleif in god if that makes more sense

 

[GenMarshall]

Atheists disbelieve in God. Without beleif in god if that makes more sense

There are Atheists who disbelieve God and Atheists who deny God. They are not one monogamous blob of people .

 

[Red Door]

The inquisitors have it all the wrong way around.

I think if religionists wish to convince we atheists that their gods are anything
other than myths and fantasy, they must first prove it to the people like me.

Why should I believe in something that I consider a man-made invention?
It is not my place to be put in trial by those who worship thin air.

I am not interested in spreading my belief, but the religious are interested
in spreading theirs...So, it is required that they validate this belief first...

...

Just a question for you, what do you believe:

There is no God or there is not a God?

This is precisely and completely wrong. Learn better.

No, it's not. Look at what people say.

There are two kinds of atheists. One kind of atheist does not believe in God. The other kind believes that God cannot exist. One is a positive assertion and one is a negative assertion. Not believing in something is a negative assertion. Believing that it is impossible for something to exist is a positive assertion.

The positive assertion that it is impossible for God to exist is no more rational than the positive assertion that God must exist.



Not believing in something is not a positive assertion. Believing that something is impossible is.

When you say "There is no God", that is a positive statement that there is no God, and just as "bad" as Theism.

I don't believe in what isn't scientifically proved. I don't see that atheists have anything to prove. It is the theists who have made an outrageous statement and it is up to them to prove it.

As Gogf said, you do not believe in anything then.

 

[Sidhe]

There are Atheists who disbelieve God and Atheists who deny God. They are not one monogamous blob of people .

Do you mean homogenous

 

[Kal'thzar]

yeah I know, but i don't trust that lot *shakes fist*

 

[Gogf]

When you say "There is no God", that is a positive statement that there is no God, and just as "bad" as Theism.

I did not say "there is no God."

I don't think it really matters if I did, though. This is not a game of "trick the other guy into making a mistake with the English language."

Let's make something clear:

Saying that something does not exist is a negative assertion. Saying that it is impossible that something exists is a positive assertion. That is a subtle, but extremely important distinction.

 

[Red Door]

Saying that something does not exist is a negative assertion. Saying that it is impossible that something exists is a positive assertion. That is a subtle, but extremely important distinction.

When you say "There is no God," you are using no as an adjective, and it's a positive assertion.

When you say "There cannot be a God," you are saying a positive assertion as well because you are certain that there cannot be a God.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

I'm agnostic, so I don't have to prove anything.

 

[Gogf]

When you say "There is no God,"

I still haven't said "there is no God."

you are using no as an adjective, and it's a positive assertion.

It doesn't matter whether you use "no" as an adjective or not. Saying that you don't believe in God is not a positive assertion. You constantly saying that it is doesn't change that.

When you say "There cannot be a God," you are saying a positive assertion as well because you are certain that there cannot be a God.

Yes, "there cannot be a God" is a positive assertion.

 

[Leonel]

I allways thought the church liked peace

So the Vatican isn't supposed to defend itself?

 

[Truronian]

I find the existance of any meaningful God unlikely. Atheism is the my shorthand for this.

 

[Red Door]

I still haven't said "there is no God."

You /= you specifically.

It doesn't matter whether you use "no" as an adjective or not. Saying that you don't believe in God is not a positive assertion. You constantly saying that it is doesn't change that.

Yes, it is. You automatically look at No and say it's negative, but when you look at the context of the sentence and the sentence itself, you can clearly see that this person is saying a positive sentence on the assertion that there is no God.

Yes, "there cannot be a God" is a positive assertion.

Why is that positive, yet the above isn't positive?

 

[Gogf]

Yes, it is. You automatically look at No and say it's negative, but when you look at the context of the sentence and the sentence itself, you can clearly see that this person is saying a positive sentence on the assertion that there is no God.

Why is that positive, yet the above isn't positive?

Yes, some atheists make a positive assertion that it is impossible that God exists. Most do not. Saying that something does not exist is not a positive assertion. Saying that it is impossible for something to exist is.

A positive assertion postulates something. Saying that something exists is a positive assertion. A negative assertion merely negates a positive assertion. Saying that something does not exist is a negative assertion. Saying that it would be impossible for something to exist is a positive assertion.

This subtle difference is important because the standards of evidence are different. A negative assertion in effect says that "there is no reason to believe [insert positive assertion here]," while its positive counterpart says that something is impossible.

As a side note, saying that it is not impossible for God to exist is also a negative assertion. In fact, I think that the vast majority of atheists would agree with that statement.

 

[Phlegmak]

why are these atheists not supposed to prove that there is no God?

It's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

 

[cthom]

It's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

not necessarily. the idea of a creator who created absolutely everything that exists is logically impossible. who/what created the stuff the creator is made of?

 

[Leifmk]

It's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

Not... necessarily. Mathematicians do it six times before breakfast. All you have to do is to be able to show that the assumption of that thing's existence leads to a contradiction.

"God", however, is not sufficiently narrowly defined to be susceptible to such methods. There are many, many different possible conceptions of "God", in the minds of believers and unbelievers alike, and only some of the more specific ones are vulnerable to logical disproof.

 

[nivi]

I belive this is no flying pink elephent behind me, but I can't look back.

Is it realy a belief?

 

[Phlegmak]

Not... necessarily. Mathematicians do it six times before breakfast. All you have to do is to be able to show that the assumption of that thing's existence leads to a contradiction.

Ah yes, mathematicians. I forgot to mention them. Ok, beyond the hard sciences, it's impossible to prove something doesn't exist.