Atheists and attacking/vehemently questioning others' faith

[skadistic]

Sidhe basically summarized my argument.
I could just as easily say at least we have our story. Out of nowhere a huge bang happened and all of a sudden an apelike man rubs some sticks together and it goes on from there? How was there the whole Big Bang process as so creatively described in the textbooks possible unless something was already there? Someone would have to have created the nothingness? Were not the only ones with gaps in our stories.

But with our gaps we say we don't know instead of inserting answers that have no backing. Unlike most theists I'm not afraid to say "hell if I know how the universe started". How ever there is not one single bit of anything that points to a god.

 

[Mark1031]

I think the problem is that religious folks are not used to having their beliefs questioned. It is somehow considered rude to say you are required to provide evidence for your beliefs or you are not being rational. Is there any other area of society where this is the case. The enlightenment was basically a truce between religion and reason allowing the west to emerge from the Dark Ages and make many advances in science and technology. If you feel your religion is being held to too much scrutiny then observe the truce and keep out of scientific teaching or you will be held to the standards of logic and reason.

 

[FredLC]

I see a problem here. Theists think that others should hold their thoughts in the same high regard. But don't tend to it them selves. Truth be told I don't have to respect your belief system. Either prove my asertions false or don't debate. You can't demand respect for unfounded theories and whine about it when you're confronted to provide evidence.

Exactly. Once I have had a debate with a n evangelical, in a Brazilkian forum, that got all agressive towards me when I refered to the Mythology of Christianity, and because I insisted in referring to his god as "Jehova" (the debate involved other religions as well, and he felt that I shpould call his god "God", with a capital "g", and any other way to refer was "disrespectful" for being dismissive of his standard of faith.

As said by skadistic, you religious guys should understand that respect does not equal reverence. We don't position ourselves in a place where we have to submit our writing style to the supposed authority of your deity - it is asking too much to expect that the only way we can talk to you guys about it is by surrendering a priori to your chosen viewpoint.

When they are insulted and dismissed as fiction is when I get irritated. Ill gladly teach anyone about the Gospel as God commands me too. If you dont believe, say so, dont call it stupid or irrational.

QED.

Seens that what annoys you, Trajan, is that when we address the topic, we position ourselves as equals challenging your idea, and you expected us to act as oblivious being taught what is right.

Given, though, that actually calling it "stupid" is an undue agression. Irrational, OTOH, just the actual situation will say.

Regards .

 

[Trajan12]

But with our gaps we say we don't know instead of inserting answers that have no backing. Unlike most theists I'm not afraid to say "hell if I know how the universe started". How ever there is not one single bit of anything that points to a god.

Thats what you believe in, logic, we believe faith, you blieve what the human eye sees, we believe what the human eye may never comprehend.
For us, the world is all the evidence we need. I can see no option but to wait it out and see what will happen. But back to the OP I think that a well presented, respectful argument is worthy of debate.

 

[Trajan12]

Exactly. Once I have had a debate with a n evangelical, in a Brazilkian forum, that got all agressive towards me when I refered to the Mythology of Christianity, and because I insisted in referring to his god as "Jehova" (the debate involved other religions as well, and he felt that I shpould call his god "God", with a capital "g", and any other way to refer was "disrespectful" for being dismissive of his standard of faith.

As said by skadistic, you religious guys should understand that respect does not equal reverence. We don't position ourselves in a place where we have to submit our writing style to the supposed authority of your deity - it is asking too much to expect that the only way we can talk to you guys about it is by surrendering a priori to your chosen viewpoint.



QED.

Seens that what annoys you, Trajan, is that when we address the topic, we position ourselves as equals challenging your idea, and you expected us to act as oblivious being taught what is right.

Given, though, that actually calling it "stupid" is an undue agression. Irrational, OTOH, just the actual situation will say.

Regards .

How on earth did you get that from my post. I said dont insult the religion. Not that the non religious are somehow unequal. God says all men our loved by Him.

 

[FredLC]

Oh come now!

Coming.

First of all, any gay couple can marry if they want.

Where do you live? They most certainly can't here in Brazil. And the reasons are altogether derived of religious resistance.

Stem cell research is legal, Christians just don't want their tax dollars to pay for it.

Exactly. A religious preset imposing a practical barrier to a very promissing and much needed research task, out of confessional perceptions of right and wrong. No one said that christians cannot choose and try to implement politics which are in favoutr of their worldview, just that we, in the minority, are annoyed for forcefully suffereing the same setbacks that you accept to yourself.

I'd go for having research conducted only in stem cells of atheist parents, and only with the money taxed from atheists, but that later on, any medical benefits could only be enjoyed by such people. Deal?

Politics? You must be kidding. People always vote with their value system.

See above. It's not that you can't have your politics, it's just that your politics are based in faith, not reason, and it generates setbacks that later on, we suffer together with you.

Education? Anti-religion is taught in the schools! It is full of liberal anti-West, anti-Christianity.

Please. At this point, which schools teachs people to be against religion? Name one! If you want to bring up the creation/evolution debate again, than you need a major reassesment of your perception of what being against religion means.

That is absurd to think otherwise!

Than I'll not think "it's otherwise", I'll think "it's wrong".

And Jim Jones was tossed out of the Christian Church!

And founded his own cult. A privilege of protestants, yes? A christian cult, no less, even if the evil twist on it will make some people deny it's core essence.

Regards .

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What I have seen time and time again is that atheists will take the worst possible view of God (combining Christian fundamentalism with a literal view of the Old Testament) and saying that since that can't be true, then belief in God in general can't be. Like, despite not believing in God they say God as Christians understand Him must be evil - but this is only true according the the beliefs of a small subset of Christians. The irony is that nonbelievers end up assuming far more attributes of God than a lot of believers.

And of course, saying that all the bad done by religion is entirely the result of religion, and all the good would have happened anyways. Of course, some theists do the opposite, but it just further convincs me that religion magnifies what we already feel. And of course, only some atheists are this way.

 

[FredLC]

How on earth did you get that from my post. I said dont insult the religion. Not that the non religious are somehow unequal. God says all men our loved by Him.

I got it when you said that you are "glad to teach the gospels, just like God commanded".

Guess what? We are not students signing up.

Regards .

 

[Atlas14]

Thats what you believe in, logic, we believe faith, you blieve what the human eye sees, we believe what the human eye may never comprehend.
For us, the world is all the evidence we need. I can see no option but to wait it out and see what will happen. But back to the OP I think that a well presented, respectful argument is worthy of debate.

But why??? What if nobody ever told you about God, you would not believe in him. Somebody had to tell you he existed. Do you not see a problem with how this works?

 

[GenMarshall]

But why??? What if nobody ever told you about God, you would not believe in him. Somebody had to tell you he existed. Do you not see a problem with how this works?

No one told me about God when I was an agnostic but yet I believed in him when I rediscovered him myself. Just as Jesus said to St. Thomas (Who doubted his wonds and resurection) "Bless are you who see and believe. But blessed are thoes who dont see and believe".

 

[Atlas14]

No one told me about God when I was an agnostic but yet I believed in him when I rediscovered him myself. Just as Jesus said to St. Thomas (Who doubted his wonds and resurection) "Bless are you who see and believe. But blessed are thoes who dont see and believe".

Yes, but you knew other people believed in God, you already had a concept of what "God" is supposed to be. Im saying, out of thin air, you wouldn't just start believing in God. If you were the only person on an island, all your life, how would you have "found" God?

 

[Trajan12]

But why??? What if nobody ever told you about God, you would not believe in him. Somebody had to tell you he existed. Do you not see a problem with how this works?

There is something called the natural knowledge of God(The knowledge of a higher being) and the learned knowledge of God(The Bible). Everyone is born knowing there is a higher power though some stray from the path to understanding of God.

 

[FredLC]

Bless are you who see and believe. But blessed are thoes who dont see and believe.

Every time I hear that, I recall Orwell's own "War is Peace, freedon is slavery, ignorance is strengh", or "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than the others".

Seriously - isn't that sentence incredably convenient?

Regards .

 

[Trajan12]

I got it when you said that you are "glad to teach the gospels, just like God commanded".

Guess what? We are not students signing up.

Regards .

I said I will be glad to teach anyone who wants to know, If you dont then just say so and thats it. Unless of course you want to question something then I will have to present more of what I know of God.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

See, trajan, I disagree with you greatly. Faith in God is something that we have to arrive at. Although we have an instinct to seek it, we are not born with it.

And I have seen a lot of atheists who bring up the fact they don't believe in God just as a way to show that they feel superior to the ignorant masses. Not all, of course, but many. "I am better than you because I don't believe in an invisible sky pixie that isn't real and does magic."

 

[Atlas14]

There is something called the natural knowledge of God(The knowledge of a higher being) and the learned knowledge of God(The Bible). Everyone is born knowing there is a higher power though some stray from the path to understanding of God.

But these "natural knowledges" are mythologies and largely based off of emotion.

 

[GenMarshall]

Im saying, out of thin air, you wouldn't just start believing in God. If you were the only person on an island, all your life, how would you have "found" God?

I would still start believing in God if I was on an island for all my life. God has his ways on revealing himself through scriptures or nature. Since I would be on a deserted island, God would have to reveal himself through nature. It would not be an Abrahamic God, but it would be a God that would be found in many polynesian tribes.

 

[FredLC]

Trajan:

Maybe I misunderstood you than. Your post gave me the impression that you were only glad to carry out the topic if the other person was willing to put himself as a pupil.

Regards .

 

[colontos]

But why??? What if nobody ever told you about God, you would not believe in him. Somebody had to tell you he existed. Do you not see a problem with how this works?

Then who told the first believer about God?

 

[Atlas14]

And I have seen a lot of atheists who bring up the fact they don't believe in God just as a way to show that they feel superior to the ignorant masses. Not all, of course, but many. "I am better than you because I don't believe in an invisible sky pixie that isn't real and does magic."

I've seen numerous Atheists that are like this. They jump on the Atheist bandwagon because they want to be viewed as intellectually superior.