Attention Divorce Lawyers, Ashley Madison Hacked!

You should, this is a gross violation of privacy, whether you agree with the contents and purpose of the site or not. There is already one instance of someone having to relocate due to his name being exposed.. Someone in Saudi Arabia IIRC, he's seeking asylum in other countries because he has now been outed as a homosexual, due to the hack, and now fears for his life.

An extreme example mind you, but why shouldn't we feel bad for these people? I don't buy the "They were cheating, so they deserve everything that's coming their way" angle, even if I'm completely against cheating and despise people who do it.

People seem to only be talking about the cheaters and not taking into account the people who are being cheated on, who are being humiliated in public as well (i.e. it's not just the cheaters who are suffering).

The only case where I see outing as a reasonable strategy, given that impact, is where you have a person in a position of of a lot of power who is acting in a very hypocritical and damaging fashion (i.e. "family values" politicians with accounts on Ashley Madison, closeted gay politicians attacking gay rights, etc.).

This is where they f****ed up. Why would anyone willingly associate their name, financial details, etc. with embarrassing transactions? Until I find anonymous ways of purchasing stuff, I'll steer clear.

Way I see it, this whole affair is a good object lesson about online anonymity and just not being stupid in general.

A lot of people aren't that tech savvy, or take the company's word that their private information is safe. Or they don't realize their other internet activities are being recorded.

You just made exactly my point. Any hacker can post any names on any website, and overnight you go from never even heard of the place, to "denying any involvement". If that ever happened to me, I'd be pretty PO'ed. Just my own act of " denying involvement" on this thread casts this lingering doubt, evoking the response you did. But I hardly even post here, anyway. I really don't care. I just want to check for my own name. But if some schmoe ever did this to me and cast lingering doubt on my significant other, now you've got me PO'ed enough to take action.

I meant it as a joke, good sir, not as an accusation. Please don't take it that way.

Call me when it's an essential service like online banking. I reserve my sympathy for those victims. Also, I would think such services would be more secure due to their particular economies, i.e. attacks on such sites are far more worrying.

That time is already here. The security systems on that website vs. more essential services aren't that different.
 
Should I feel bad for the site's members?

I'm not sure if you should feel bad for them, but you probably shouldn't feel glee at their problems.

How many people on Ashley Madison are single? How many have the permission of their spouse to sleep around? How many have used the site with their spouse to find other people because they enjoy it? How many people signed up and created an account on the thought that they might cheat, perhaps as a fantasy, but never did?

In all cases, it is probably a minority. All those added together might still be a minority, but we shouldn't celebrate the outing of them via the hack. After all, no one reading the hack's material would be able to tell what the actual circumstances of a party is based upon the data dump. The joy that people about over cackling over the presumed cheaters is demonstrative of a Puritanical society that is afraid of talking candidly about sex. It is a symptom of the anti-sex disease of Anglo society.

How many people are ten years into a marriage with two kids, five and seven, when the sex just dries up? Maybe it is because of a medical condition for one spouse or maybe something else is going on, but the lack of sex makes the person miserable. The rest of the relationship is great and loving, but he's not getting the nooky that can make him truly happy. He's talked to his wife about getting a hall pass, but she's said no, that makes her uncomfortable. He appears to have an outwardly great life, but the lack of sex just niggles him. A thorn that works his way into his life and slowly starts to poison the relationship. The lack of sex threatens to bring down everything that's great about his life.

Does he let the lack of sex slowly twist inside himself to the point where it becomes a serious issue, and that one night at Chuck E. Cheese with the kids running around being a pain, he's had a horrible day at work, she's venting to him her frustrations about her extended family, and the lack of sex is just one more thing that causes the relationship to implode?

Or does he cheat and maintain a loving relationship with his wife and children while getting a little something on the side? The sexual tension dissipated, he can now focus on having a happy family life.

That's not to say that cheating is good, but in that example there's no good answer. He's still a cheater, but he's a cheater who cheats in order to keep his life, and the lives of his family members, in order. His cheating supports not only his own happiness, but also the happiness of his wife and children with whom he is able to maintain his relationship because he cheated. He's a dirty cheater, but also a loving father and husband because he cheated.

Fidelity is a many-layered thing. There's the question of sexual fidelity, which seems obvious, but there's also emotional, relationship, parenting, and economic fidelity. The calculus on what is the most important type of fidelity and what can be compromised isn't something that can be done from people on the outside looking in.
 
Yeap. There are degrees of scumbaghood. What's the point other than these people are shizery but still the heroes of their own story? That the hackers are the "most clearly scumbags" in this story? What if they're poor and trying to support aging relatives by attempting to engage in a bloodless robbery of the least morally clean target they could find? We probably shouldn't be too judgy of them too. In fact, why don't we just give everyone a pass and a handy?
 
A lot of people aren't that tech savvy, or take the company's word that their private information is safe. Or they don't realize their other internet activities are being recorded.

The security systems on that website vs. more essential services aren't that different.
That's my main reason for enjoying this. If enough people get burned, maybe we can finally start taking security and privacy seriously before people start literally dying directly because of attacks on IT systems or before corporations know everything about us.
 
How many people are ten years into a marriage with two kids, five and seven, when the sex just dries up?
That's the point when the relationship is supposed to go beyond intercourse and into lifelong companionship. Urges should never condone lying and dangerous behavior that potentially could destroy the happiness of loved ones. That is not eudaimonic behavior, and I will give it no quarter.
 
Yeap. There are degrees of scumbaghood. What's the point other than these people are shizery but still the heroes of their own story?

The point being not that the cheaters are heroes, but that human relationships are incredibly complex and that is unbecoming of a society to celebrate the outing of supposed cheaters when we, from the outside looking in, don't know the whole story.

Zelig said:
Don't allow marriage without discussing that scenario beforehand.

Not a bad idea, actually a great idea, but that certainly doesn't seem like that is a common question in pre-marriage counseling.
 
Ah. Here's the first extortion attempts based on this that I've heard of: http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/21/technology/ashley-madison-users-extorted/

"Unfortunately your data was leaked in the recent hacking of Ashley Madison and I now have your information," the extortion email read.

The group requested one bitcoin (around $225) to prevent the information from being shared with the user's significant other.

The message said users have seven days before being exposed.
 
That's the point when the relationship is supposed to go beyond intercourse and into lifelong companionship. Urges should never condone lying and dangerous behavior that potentially could destroy the happiness of loved ones.

I'm not trying to be permissive of cheating. I don't want to hold it up as an exemplary human behavior. That said, there are relationships where cheating is the manner in which the relationship is maintained and the end result is superior to a broken relationship.

People lie to their partners all the time to maintain a relationship. Your wife is having a wicked rough patch and goes out and gets a new haircut. You hate it. She asks you what you think of it. You lie not because you want to be mislead her, but because you want to affirm her autonomy and her self-image during this difficult time. Because that's part of your job as her husband, whereas dictating her haircut is not your job. People vow to support and love each other in marriage, not to control each other's hairstyles. By lying you are maintaining and supporting your relationship in a manner that honesty would not. Unlike the dress that makes her look fat, she can't readily change her haircut so there's nothing she can do about it even if you were honest about it.

Now that might not be the best way to act in that situation, but when you wife bursts in the door filled with joy and topped with a God-awful bob you can't spend five or ten minutes trying to figure out how to be both honest and affirming. She's been down in the dumps for weeks and this is the first time you've seen her so happy in some time. We could spend some time trying to figure out what he should have done, but Hubby doesn't have the luxury of time. Instead, he says he loves it, kisses her, and then goes back to making dinner. He does it because he knows that what is not important is her haircut, but her.

Now that's a little lie relative to cheating, but the point stands we lie to our loved ones to maintain relationships because we know that lying, while unwelcome and best avoided, sometimes is the lesser of evils.
 
While you can lie about a haircut and have an excellent relationship, if you lie about being in an excellent relationship then that relationship is itself the lie. If you're going to do it for the kids then actually do it for the kids. Don't teach them that their role models figure when the going gets tough the tough get Fing around. Trust issues. Ew.
 
Yeah... and sometimes more damage is probable to happen...

The full-court press comes amid a report of at least two suicides of people whose personal information was included in the massive dump of account data for Ashley Madison, which carried the tag line "Life is short. Have an affair." It's too early to say if the exposures were the proximate reason the individuals took their lives, but the deaths were discussed during a press conference the Toronto Police Service held early Monday morning. Bryce Evans, acting staff superintendent, said the outing of so many people in committed relationships cheating on their partners crossed a line that could destroy lives and careers of millions of people around the world.
:undecide:

I'm still a bit divided on the whole issue, but I continue to hope that this will lead to more people being concerned about their security and privacy.
 
I don't like this one bit. No, I don't think cheating on a spouse is an anyway acceptable behavior. But this data stealing is too close to stoning people in public.
 
I am shocked that those same people wanting to disobey the Supreme Court on gay marriage aren't out to stone the Ashley Madison cheaters. Read your Bible people!!!!!
 
I don't like this one bit. No, I don't think cheating on a spouse is an anyway acceptable behavior. But this data stealing is too close to stoning people in public.

Legal in 4 states now! Wait...
 
I have a friend who used to get stoned in public all the time.

Feel for the wives and sweethearts who have to start over or try to go on for the sake of the children, their trust and the joy of their lives gone. These are the victims.
 
I don't like this one bit. No, I don't think cheating on a spouse is an anyway acceptable behavior. But this data stealing is too close to stoning people in public.

I'd say a more appropriate reference is the Nathanial Hawthorne book The Scarlett Letter.
 
I don't think 100% of the leaked people cheated, or even intended to cheat, or are even in a relationship. I do think well over 50% did, though. As much as I have no sympathy for those who did, that's why we should be enraged about this leak: because there is an expectation of privacy that was betrayed. Contrary to what our witchhunting culture says, that privacy does not only serve to enable cheaters (although that it does): but occasionally people might log on with the expectation of privacy, without fear of what it would LOOK like if they were found out. A loyal spouse could be checking up on their spouse whom they may not entirely trust, for example. Had they known that their privacy was in fact not, they would never have logged on. People create sock accounts pretending to be someone else. And yes, people can get framed.

The safest safeguard is, of course, don't cheat. But the problem is, in this hacking, spying, and witchhunt culture, not even that is good enough. You have to continually watch your back and watch your image. And that sucks.
 
That's my main reason for enjoying this. If enough people get burned, maybe we can finally start taking security and privacy seriously before people start literally dying directly because of attacks on IT systems or before corporations know everything about us.

Okay, I get this, but I'm not seeing any real conversation on improving IT security, privacy, etc. for the rest of us. At least not in broad, mainstream news sources. Maybe on tech blogs.

I have a friend who used to get stoned in public all the time.

Feel for the wives and sweethearts who have to start over or try to go on for the sake of the children, their trust and the joy of their lives gone. These are the victims.

Exactly. And their humiliation is public.
 
Back
Top Bottom