Australian Labor implode.

[classical_hero]

Well Julia was totally dishonest about the whole situation. It would have been so much easier to just tell the truth about the situation. Even Carr has it on his hands, since he denied he had been approach and yet he was.

 

[Camikaze]

Well Julia was totally dishonest about the whole situation. It would have been so much easier to just tell the truth about the situation. Even Carr has it on his hands, since he denied he had been approach and yet he was.

I thought he denied he was seeking the Senate position (which he didn't do, as it was proposed to him)? And I thought Gillard denied offering him the position (which she hadn't done when she made that denial, though she had talked to him about it)? There a bit of stretching of the truth, but I'm not sure how you get 'totally dishonest' out of it (anymore than you get it out of anytime a politician stretches the truth).

 

[Arwon]

Also, herpa derpa derp, politicians don't outright say everything they might be planning or thinking before it's time to confirm and announce. Really? Who cares? It's an internal process, why should they tell the media every thought they might be having?

Oh wait JULIAR or something I guess. So. Much. Derp.

 

[Masada]

eh, carr's not a bad choice politically. big name, reasonable political legacy; overall a safe pick.

And I thought Gillard denied offering him the position (which she hadn't done when she made that denial, though she had talked to him about it)?

she probably wasn't lying, in that 'party' representatives, as carr said, - e.g. influential peeps in new south wales - asked and would have reported back. scoping out people is just what you do at the end of the day. so i think it fair to say that in terms of actual scandal there's nothing there, in terms of perceived scandal it feeds into the whole CH friendly Juliar narrative.

more interestingly who the hell leaked it?

 

[classical_hero]

Is Carr's appointment legal?
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s15.html

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 15
Casual vacancies [see Note 8]

If the place of a senator becomes vacant before the expiration of his term of service, the Houses of Parliament of the State for which he was chosen, sitting and voting together, or, if there is only one House of that Parliament, that House, shall choose a person to hold the place until the expiration of the term. But if the Parliament of the State is not in session when the vacancy is notified, the Governor of the State, with the advice of the Executive Council thereof, may appoint a person to hold the place until the expiration of fourteen days from the beginning of the next session of the Parliament of the State or the expiration of the term, whichever first happens.

Does the state in question mean NSW? So it seems that Gillard has overstepped her mark should the government of NSW veto her guy.

 

[Old Hippy]

Is Carr's appointment legal?
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s15.html


Does the state in question mean NSW? So it seems that Gillard has overstepped her mark should the government of NSW veto her guy.

you will notice he is not being sworn in today with the rest of the Ministers ... because they will have to have a joint sitting later this week to confirm his nomination, convention says that they will choose someone nominated from the party whose senator is going...

 

[Arwon]

I HEAR BOB CAR DOESN'T HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE

Yeah, the appointment has to be done by the state parliament and it has to be a member of the party of the vacating Senator who gets appointed. Typically the state parliament just rubber stamps the appointment. Gillard called O'Farrell and he's indicated his support.

 

[Camikaze]

It's perfectly legal, especially seeing as Carr hasn't actually been sworn in as a minister yet. If he's sworn in and then doesn't get appointed to the Senate in the following three months, then he'd have to resign.

Also, I believe O'Farrell said he thought Carr would be a decent foreign minister.

 

[classical_hero]

Well in Queensland we have seen and implosion like never before in Australian politics. The State Labor Party might not even get party status, due to how poorly they performed at the election.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=732443&vId=

 

[Old Hippy]

Well in Queensland we have seen and implosion like never before in Australian politics. The State Labor Party might not even get party status, due to how poorly they performed at the election.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=732443&vId=

I happy for you...

but swings and roundabouts....

Some notable state election landslides include:
1911 Western Australian state election - The Labor party, previously in opposition, won 34 of the 50 seats in the state Legislative Assembly.
1933 Western Australian state election - The Labor party, previously in opposition, won 30 of the 50 seats in the state Legislative Assembly, reducing the previous party of government, the Nationalists, to minor party status.
1974 Queensland state election - Country-Liberal Coalition won 69 of the 82 seats in the state parliament (the Coalition's win, while overwhelming, was exaggerated by the Bjelkemander in operation in the state's electoral divisions at the time)
1981 New South Wales state election - Australian Labor Party won 69 of the 99 seats in the state Legislative Assembly.
1993 South Australian state election - Liberal Party, previously in opposition, won 37 of the 47 seats in the state House of Assembly.
2001 Queensland state election - Australian Labor Party won 66 of the 89 seats in the state Legislative Assembly.
2002 Victorian state election - Australian Labor Party won 62 of the 88 seats in the state Legislative Assembly.
2011 New South Wales state election- Liberal/National coalition won 69 of the 93 seats in the Legislative Assembly

i draw your attetion to the 2002 Vic result a labour victory yet we already have swung the other way to the libs

 

[Arwon]

Of particular note is the Liberals being reduced to three seats in Queensland in 2001. That state swings hard.

 

[classical_hero]

Yeah I know a similar thing happened in the past to the other side, so the LNP does not have to assume that it will be easy, since they can be slaughtered like the Labor party was.

 

[Dale]

Of particular note is the Liberals being reduced to three seats in Queensland in 2001. That state swings hard.

Not quite how you make it out to be. Liberals were only a secondary party in QLD at the time. They had a party swing of -1.77% in 2001.

The QLD ALP made up the seats from the collapse of One Nation (8 seats) and from the Nationals (11 seats). When you look at swings, the ALP swing was pretty much gained completely from One Nation. And with the loss of the One Nation preferences Nationals lost a heap of seats.

 

[Camikaze]

Not quite how you make it out to be.

The point would be that Queensland swings a lot. Managing to go from 3 seats to such a commanding majority in a decade is a pretty damn hard swing.

The State Labor Party might not even get party status, due to how poorly they performed at the election.

Woah now, no need to get quite that excited.


Will be interesting to see how this impacts on federal ALP numbers in the next year or so. Unless the LNP can maintain their popularity, you'd assume the ALP would get a little of that support back.

 

[Justo]

As a Queenslander this had been coming for some time. The only reason Labor were even in power was that the Liberals and Nationals had been so disorganized and ineffective in previous elections with party infighting and leadership changes yearly in the past.

I am suprised at how heavily they were thrown out though and don't like that the LNP now have practically free reign to do as they please(I wouldn't like any party to have that much control). Should make for interesting times at least.

 

[classical_hero]

Woah now, no need to get quite that excited.

Under Queensland Law, if a party does not get ten seats, it is not considered a party. I learnt that from the coverage of the election. Why don't you think the Liberals and Nationals merged to form the LNP? It is because the Liberal party only had 3 sitting members.

 

[Old Hippy]

it will cost them some funding .... but the ALP are still a party and will have their machine in place from tomorrow morning... you don't need any seats to be a party, only to get the funding for campaings

 

[Arwon]

Will be interesting to see if there's a campaign for proportional representation in QLD now. When you have 23% of the populace voting for minor parties, you can get these sorts of very lopsided results because a party can win a crushing super majority with less than half the vote (Canada's most recent election is another example).

Historically, electoral reform tends to happen when there's sizable minor party votes at both ends of the political spectrum and single member districts are producing grossly disproportionate results. If Katter's mob sticks around, the PR issue might get more prominent.

 

[Camikaze]

Under Queensland Law, if a party does not get ten seats, it is not considered a party. I learnt that from the coverage of the election. Why don't you think the Liberals and Nationals merged to form the LNP? It is because the Liberal party only had 3 sitting members.

So...what you're saying is that Queensland is a one-party state.

 

[Dale]

Will be interesting to see if there's a campaign for proportional representation in QLD now. When you have 23% of the populace voting for minor parties, you can get these sorts of very lopsided results because a party can win a crushing super majority with less than half the vote (Canada's most recent election is another example).

Historically, electoral reform tends to happen when there's sizable minor party votes at both ends of the political spectrum and single member districts are producing grossly disproportionate results. If Katter's mob sticks around, the PR issue might get more prominent.

Going proportional voting pretty much renders electorates useless. You're voting for a proportion of the Parliament as a whole instead of a regional representative. That's one hellova psychological issue to overcome there as people like to think they control who represents them.

Just think, in 1998 with proportional voting One Nation would've won 20 seats instead of the 11 they did win. Scary thought eh?