Austria. Broken on higher difficulties? Or just plain broken?

[HelloGoodbye123]

In that case they SHOULD NOT be liberated, it be extremely annoying when you conquer a city state and 1 turn later it goes back to Austria.. so you fought to get the Austrian city, and now its an Austrian city again... THAT WOULD BE BROKEN.. at least when you take a city state from austria, it will not become a city state again.. and you can keep the city state you conquered, without being liberated of course..

and no, city states usually build 2-3 units.. usually 2 range and 1 melee.. unless its military, they will have from 5 to 10 units..

 

[chazzycat]

With the G&K victory condition, you're back to the old system of multiple civs having to vote for one of two contenders rather than voting for themselves. So if you're one of the contenders, presumably it's still possible to win by getting enough of your friendly civs onside even if all city-states have been eliminated?

True, but it's hard to predict how the AI will vote though. I wouldn't rely on it...city states are a sure thing.

 

[elprofesor]

I'd personally like the option to liberate CS.
Other than that, maybe they should stay allied to a CS for 5-10 turns on a row before being able to marry it, so that other players get a chance to avoid the marriage. I don't think they would need much more to be on par with other Civs.

 

[Furycrab]

its not about having an answer to a runaway - its about the situation where this city state is removed from the game.

Unless im wrong, you CAN liberate khan's new cities once he rolls them over. One fix would be that city states start independent but no liberation EVER. I don't care about runaway civ's - i care about a situation that can not be addressed, reversed or interrupted.

I think it gives a unique twist to settling and getting new cities and that liberation would kill it because you would massively reward anyone coming back to take your cities.

I think the cost is a bit off since after I'd say medieval to renaissance, you get way too much bang for your buck (units, buildings, good placement, good pop...) which suggest it probably should go up in price with each new age after Classical, however assuming they got the costs right, to go from there and say that anyone taking back the cities can get a free allies would be seriously broken but the other way, since I could abuse a player or AI who even uses the UA.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

I'd personally like the option to liberate CS.
Other than that, maybe they should stay allied to a CS for 5-10 turns on a row before being able to marry it, so that other players get a chance to avoid the marriage. I don't think they would need much more to be on par with other Civs.

What if after 5-10 turns, the city state goes back to friends, and you have to give more gold to ally, it, and wait another 5-10.. so like 10-20 turns wait, that isnt a great bonus..

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

A good way to go about it, with AI, is to keep asking for big chunks of gold, they usually offer 100-200g for 5 iron.. maybe that could be a solution for you guys..

Also, no, to increasing the cost, i mean to instantly marry a city state is 1500g.. 1000g to instant ally, and 500g to marry..

if a city state is allied with another player that has say 150 influence, thats 2000g.. so they dont really come "cheap" as you say, only in the beginning of the game, when you might kill a barbarian by their city.. but then again, in the beginnig not many ppl got 500g to spare...

 

[elprofesor]

What if after 5-10 turns, the city state goes back to friends, and you have to give more gold to ally, it, and wait another 5-10.. so like 10-20 turns wait, that isnt a great bonus..

Let's go with 5 turns. You are rarely going to lose Ally status in 5 turns in the early to mid-game, when it's actually gold that is hard to come by. But it does slow down the marriage acquisition in the late game, where you usually have enough gold to ally any CS, no matter who was allied to it previously.

On the other hand, it avoids CS sniping by Austria, since everybody would get 5 turns to react, and you wouldn't find yourself in a position where a CS you had invested in a lot suddenly becomes Austrian territory, with nothing you can do to avoid it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

Let's go with 5 turns. You are rarely going to lose Ally status in 5 turns in the early to mid-game, when it's actually gold that is hard to come by. But it does slow down the marriage acquisition in the late game, where you usually have enough gold to ally any CS, no matter who was allied to it previously.

On the other hand, it avoids CS sniping by Austria, since everybody would get 5 turns to react, and you wouldn't find yourself in a position where a CS you had invested in a lot suddenly becomes Austrian territory, with nothing you can do to avoid it.

Just my 2 cents.

if ppl are able to react an counter i just feel like its not a bonus.. no one can stop and react to egypt building another wonder, no one can stop and react to mayans getting another great person.. getting an extra city state isnt at all overpowering..

 

[Buccaneer]

In that case they SHOULD NOT be liberated, it be extremely annoying when you conquer a city state and 1 turn later it goes back to Austria.. so you fought to get the Austrian city, and now its an Austrian city again... THAT WOULD BE BROKEN.. at least when you take a city state from austria, it will not become a city state again.. and you can keep the city state you conquered, without being liberated of course..

and no, city states usually build 2-3 units.. usually 2 range and 1 melee.. unless its military, they will have from 5 to 10 units..

You make a good point. The liberated city-state will likely flip right back to Austria but that's ok. It makes you have to work harder on keeping it in your column, which would offset the loss of a significant part of the UA. Those calling for Austria not getting that city-state back for X number of turns is akin to cheating and dumbing down the game to make it less challenging. If I recall, there are number of wins here that had Austria as an opponent (and more will come), so don't burn the witch just because she frightens you.

 

[thadian]

The solution is not to have to keep paying to keep owning the city. The problem is not that it can (in correct situations) buy up the whole board.

the idea of temporary ownership does not solve anything because the problem is not permanent ownership of the city state - the problem is that when someone else captures said city, they can not liberate it.

Well, one thing i notice is the idea that austria could turn around and re-buy it right away - but at that point, i would recapture and reliberate and let them waste their money. I also believe a civ/city state should have all relations set to 0 when eliminated, and if liberated, start fresh "as a new culture".

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

Lets just not change anything!

 

[thadian]

Lets just not change anything!

And that is likely what will happen. there reaches a point in normal conversations, that when simple matters like this are discussed, things can get very complex - solutions never arise and no change occurs.


In order for a change to occur:

1. A proposal that is better than what we currently have - that addresses "problems" and has an answer for the consequences of the change taking place.

2. Proponents on both sides of the issue to agree that said change either improves the situation, or at least does no harm.

In this case, people who hate no liberation of austria city states are satisfied with the new solution and people who support the current system are not bothered with the change.

Of course simple one, two's don't solve everything but what a better world it would be if all things were run through that.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

In order for change, you guys have to get the developers attention...

 

[thadian]

yall best write up yo sings, OCCUPY my brotha, OCCUPY firaxis and sid meier and make him PERSONALLY code in the fixes to EVERY issue, we will ring bells outside his house and he will get no sleep until every bug is fixed. We will bring in Chael Sonnen to smack talk him while we demand change in Civilization!

Then we will all be arrested, released and sent home to our still broken game

but at minimum it is better to be unheard and ignored than punished with "change" you don't like.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

I will bring my army to say no changes!!

 

[Buccaneer]

In order for change, you guys have to get the developers attention...

Best way to change is for the developers to examine/modify the full code and then to organize a robust testing of those changes by people that actually know how to play the game. I'm sure that this (Austria) has been brought up many times during beta testing and they (Firaxis/testers) decided this was the best course for now or more likely, a lower priority to change. I trust the testing group much more than I do the whiners and curmudgeons (me included) in the general forums.

 

[Monthar]

In that case they SHOULD NOT be liberated, it be extremely annoying when you conquer a city state and 1 turn later it goes back to Austria.. so you fought to get the Austrian city, and now its an Austrian city again... THAT WOULD BE BROKEN.. at least when you take a city state from austria, it will not become a city state again.. and you can keep the city state you conquered, without being liberated of course..

Unless you make peace with Austria the turn you liberate the CS, they can't just reacquire it the next turn, because when you liberate a CS it immediately becomes your ally, so that CS would be at war with them. When a CS is at war with someone there is no way for them to become allies with it. Even a coup attempt will always fail when at war with the CS.

and no, city states usually build 2-3 units.. usually 2 range and 1 melee.. unless its military, they will have from 5 to 10 units..

In ancient times and right after liberating them this may be true. However, I regularly see CS's with almost every tile they own full of their troops. If that CS is coastal they also have just as many ships roaming around exploring the map as they have land units.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

so, we can conclude Austria not overpowering, all you guys want it liberation access? ..

 

[Motrok]

so, we can conclude Austria not overpowering, all you guys want it liberation access? ..

And a cooldown. Something reasonable. 20 turns should be enough.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

And a cooldown. Something reasonable. 20 turns should be enough.

NOOOOOOOO, no cooldown!! no more adding restrictions to austria, dont even agree with liberation, historically doesnt make sense, and its also part of the austrian bonus..