Authority is the only viable option on Immortal+

[Bromar1]

Yeah, problem with that is that those units don't benefit from promotions like Moral, so they are undertrained, and that you reach to unit limit sooner. Other than that, I agree that this is a practical way of providing garnisons for an extremely aggresive civ.

That's not right, units spawned this way get all the experience and morale bonus of normally built units.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Really? The free unit is a life saver because you "ambiently" generate garrisons that help keep your happiness up while most of your units are out fighting wars. If anything, I'd like to see it buffed to a free unit every 7 population...

Using those troops as garrisons? Sure, but if you go the right side two first policies into two left, it's not like you'll leave your cities ungarrisoned for that long and cripple your Culture + Happiness by doing so. If you go left (Settler route) to right, then the time between 5th and final policy is pretty long anyway and you still should garrison the cities ASAP with cheap production stuff like warriors/scouts to speed your cultural game up to not fall behind. Sure, you can use those troops for garrisoning future cities though. If you go three policies on the right first... why would you do this even? You have no Food policies, you probably don't have a single 8 pop city. I can even remember games in which I didn't get a single soldier by the time I finished Authority (I always get the +10%CS policy last).

Anyways, if Authority is to get a buff (IMHO it should, it loses relevancy a bit too fast), it should preferably get something on its finisher and/or something early to help break those pesky Walled cities. They're a pain to encounter and ruin conquest chances until Mathematics. I'd rather get a free Ballista coupled with instant Ballista-for-production access instead of the free settler in that culture+science for conquest/settling policy as it'd actually help me at something important - acquiring cities through fighting.

Every tree has a finisher, but Authority gets pretty much nothing. There's only Faith access to a GP and some very situational uniques. Like if I'm playing Sweden or France, sure, I might upgrade a Landsknecht to the Tercio UU. In my experience your previously medieval era Longswords still are better fit for the upgrade-to-unit task as they have free shock I, allowing them to get to good stuff faster, however once Longswords are outdated I get a Landsknecht and upgrade to Musketeer. Otherwise, I rarely use 'knechts as anything but rushbuy +1Happy garrisons once they're the cheapest because Longswords still beat Landsknechts, and the rest of UUs are pretty late.

 

[Bromar1]

Using those troops as garrisons? Sure, but if you go the right side two first policies into two left, it's not like you'll leave your cities ungarrisoned for that long and cripple your Culture + Happiness by doing so. If you go left (Settler route) to right, then the time between 5th and final policy is pretty long anyway and you still should garrison the cities ASAP with cheap production stuff like warriors/scouts to speed your cultural game up to not fall behind. Sure, you can use those troops for garrisoning future cities though. If you go three policies on the right first... why would you do this even? You have no Food policies, you probably don't have a single 8 pop city. I can even remember games in which I didn't get a single soldier by the time I finished Authority (I always get the +10%CS policy last).

Anyways, if Authority is to get a buff (IMHO it should, it loses relevancy a bit too fast), it should preferably get something on its finisher and/or something early to help break those pesky Walled cities. They're a pain to encounter and ruin conquest chances until Mathematics. I'd rather get a free Ballista coupled with instant Ballista-for-production access instead of the free settler in that culture+science for conquest/settling policy as it'd actually help me at something important - acquiring cities through fighting.

Every tree has a finisher, but Authority gets pretty much nothing. There's only Faith access to a GP and some very situational uniques. Like if I'm playing Sweden or France, sure, I might upgrade a Landsknecht to the Tercio UU. In my experience your previously medieval era Longswords still are better fit for the upgrade-to-unit task as they have free shock I, allowing them to get to good stuff faster, however once Longswords are outdated I get a Landsknecht and upgrade to Musketeer. Otherwise, I rarely use 'knechts as anything but rushbuy +1Happy garrisons once they're the cheapest because Longswords still beat Landsknechts, and the rest of UUs are pretty late.

Honestly, I rarely ever buy the mercenary units. Sure, Landsknechts have a few nice perks, but the gold cost isn't really low enough to justify it IMO. Last I checked a pikeman was ~260 gold and Landsknecht was 200. I'd rather have 15 CS Landsknecht that costa 150 gold than 17 CS Landsknecht that costs 200.

 

[Gazebo]

Using those troops as garrisons? Sure, but if you go the right side two first policies into two left, it's not like you'll leave your cities ungarrisoned for that long and cripple your Culture + Happiness by doing so. If you go left (Settler route) to right, then the time between 5th and final policy is pretty long anyway and you still should garrison the cities ASAP with cheap production stuff like warriors/scouts to speed your cultural game up to not fall behind. Sure, you can use those troops for garrisoning future cities though. If you go three policies on the right first... why would you do this even? You have no Food policies, you probably don't have a single 8 pop city. I can even remember games in which I didn't get a single soldier by the time I finished Authority (I always get the +10%CS policy last).

Anyways, if Authority is to get a buff (IMHO it should, it loses relevancy a bit too fast), it should preferably get something on its finisher and/or something early to help break those pesky Walled cities. They're a pain to encounter and ruin conquest chances until Mathematics. I'd rather get a free Ballista coupled with instant Ballista-for-production access instead of the free settler in that culture+science for conquest/settling policy as it'd actually help me at something important - acquiring cities through fighting.

Every tree has a finisher, but Authority gets pretty much nothing. There's only Faith access to a GP and some very situational uniques. Like if I'm playing Sweden or France, sure, I might upgrade a Landsknecht to the Tercio UU. In my experience your previously medieval era Longswords still are better fit for the upgrade-to-unit task as they have free shock I, allowing them to get to good stuff faster, however once Longswords are outdated I get a Landsknecht and upgrade to Musketeer. Otherwise, I rarely use 'knechts as anything but rushbuy +1Happy garrisons once they're the cheapest because Longswords still beat Landsknechts, and the rest of UUs are pretty late.

Authority just got a buff- much higher supply cap.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Authority just got a buff- much higher supply cap.

G

Eh, I have never had issues with supply cap myself (unless Huns) anyway, it's more about placement for me. Also IIRC the buff is only for population based supply - so it merely compensates for the fact Progress and Tradition can get much taller cities thanks to getting way more Food from policies. I still think it'd be fine to give Authority an actual finisher and/or something early to break cities so it actually does its role of "falling off and weak but can make you strong through conquest", which currently is stopped by the AI being too smart about Walls since about 3 versions.

 

[tu_79]

@Enrico Swagolo This free catapult sounds fun, but what if no suitable for conquest civ is near?
I don't use to hit the unit cap either, but I play on normal difficulties, so I don't fight more wars than I can handle.

But capitals are so hard without them. In my current game, it took me a couple of catapults to begin to scratch Moson Khani walls, at 23-26 Defense, archers were pretty useless against that, and sometimes I hitted walls with melee, just for the xp. Even with the first ballista, the capital was withstanding many turns. I doubt just one catapult could make you take on capitals, and for smaller cities (8-10 def) you don't really need it.

@Bromar1 I'm pretty sure those spawned units don't get the Morale promotion. Perhaps if you build that religious building that grants morale for units produced in that city, it could be. I believe they get the xp for the buildings that are present in the city where they are spawned.

EDIT: mistook unit name!

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

@Enrico Swagolo This free ballista sounds fun, but what if no suitable for conquest civ is near?
I don't use to hit the unit cap either, but I play on normal difficulties, so I don't fight more wars than I can handle.

But capitals are so hard without them. In my current game, it took me a couple of ballistas to begin to scratch Moson Khani walls, at 23-26 Defense, archers were pretty useless against that, and sometimes I hitted walls with melee, just for the xp. Even with the first ballista, the capital was withstanding many turns. I doubt just one ballista could make you take on capitals, and for smaller cities (8-10 def) you don't really need it.

@Bromar1 I'm pretty sure those spawned units don't get the Morale promotion. Perhaps if you build that religious building that grants morale for units produced in that city, it could be. I believe they get the xp for the buildings that are present in the city where they are spawned.

If no suitable conquest civ is near, then you might delay getting the free ballista + ability to produce/buy ballistas policy for later until you expand in the direction of your enemies so they're suitable for conquest. If there's no enemies on your continent at all, then Authority was just a bad pick as both Tradition and Progress would have worked better regardless of what you try to do.
Also IIRC the units get all the promos that any unit in a city could get, so if you have Orders or Heroic Epic, they get it. Same with Dojo Virtues or Alhambra Drill. But yeah, only units spawned by my main unit production city I use for anything other than garrison/free influence/disband gold.

Also you mistake ballistas for catapults. I'm suggesting just giving Authority civs a free Ballista UU (which currently is city state only) as well as access to producing ballistas regardless of tech or on some early tech all Authority civs love, like Military Theory. It works because no civ has a catapult UU anymore, and militaristic CS ballista IIRC is pretty much just a regular catapult with +CS (or at least it used to be so), effectively ensuring it's not going to somehow make Authority insane. It could even be buffed to get regular CS but a promo to help it attack cities further, like that quickly accessible +50% city attack promotion?

 

[tu_79]

If no suitable conquest civ is near, then you might delay getting the free ballista + ability to produce/buy ballistas policy for later until you expand in the direction of your enemies so they're suitable for conquest. If there's no enemies on your continent at all, then Authority was just a bad pick as both Tradition and Progress would have worked better regardless of what you try to do.
Also IIRC the units get all the promos that any unit in a city could get, so if you have Orders or Heroic Epic, they get it. Same with Dojo Virtues or Alhambra Drill. But yeah, only units spawned by my main unit production city I use for anything other than garrison/free influence/disband gold.

Also you mistake ballistas for catapults. I'm suggesting just giving Authority civs a free Ballista UU (which currently is city state only) as well as access to producing ballistas regardless of tech or on some early tech all Authority civs love, like Military Theory. It works because no civ has a catapult UU anymore, and militaristic CS ballista IIRC is pretty much just a regular catapult with +CS (or at least it used to be so), effectively ensuring it's not going to somehow make Authority insane. It could even be buffed to get regular CS but a promo to help it attack cities further, like that quickly accessible +50% city attack promotion?

Ah, Ok. That sounds differently. Perhaps with a single Ballista you can capture some capitals. But instead of a free one, just making them available to purchase/produce?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Ah, Ok. That sounds differently. Perhaps with a single Ballista you can capture some capitals. But instead of a free one, just making them available to purchase/produce?

Why not both? 1 Free Ballista and ability to construct/buy them. Doesn't seem OP to me with Ballista being just a differently modelled Catapult with +CS, and even if it became better than I remember it being be last time I got it from a Military CS, I doubt it'd somehow break Authority - it'd just make it able to conquer more reliably, which is what the tree is meant to do.

 

[Gazebo]

We can keep going around and around on this, but Authority doesn't need a buff. It really doesn't. If you buff it, the opportunity cost of war goes down, and the imbalance that comes from conquering cities/capitals before turn 150 is tipped.

 

[Bromar1]

We can keep going around and around on this, but Authority doesn't need a buff. It really doesn't. If you buff it, the opportunity cost of war goes down, and the imbalance that comes from conquering cities/capitals before turn 150 is tipped.

I 100% agree that authority doesn't need an early game buff. IMO, what it needs is just a touch more sustain to help with unhappiness. I really would like authority better if the happiness from garrisons went up to +2 in the Renaissance era and then +3 in the modern/atomic era or something along those lines.

 

[Gazebo]

I 100% agree that authority doesn't need an early game buff. IMO, what it needs is just a touch more sustain to help with unhappiness. I really would like authority better if the happiness from garrisons went up to +2 in the Renaissance era and then +3 in the modern/atomic era or something along those lines.

Authority's happiness scales pretty well because it doesn't rely on population or buildings - it is essentially 'free' by virtue of being from garrisons (which you either get for free or already have from your wars). Authority -> Piety is solid if needing happiness.

 

[tu_79]

I 100% agree that authority doesn't need an early game buff. IMO, what it needs is just a touch more sustain to help with unhappiness. I really would like authority better if the happiness from garrisons went up to +2 in the Renaissance era and then +3 in the modern/atomic era or something along those lines.

Build zoos and temples (with piety). Courthouses in captured capitals, don't annex if the city isn't wonderful. Limit growth or build growth buildings later. Spread trade routes. Don't leave all the conquest for late game. Too fast domination shouldn't be encouraged.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

We can keep going around and around on this, but Authority doesn't need a buff. It really doesn't. If you buff it, the opportunity cost of war goes down, and the imbalance that comes from conquering cities/capitals before turn 150 is tipped.

I've said it times and times again while you've never explained when I asked you - I just don't get it. How does a miniscule 10% heal on melee kill make walled capitals fall down before Authority players? You always imply how "easy" Authority makes conquering cities, but did you try that in the last few versions? The AI is insane about Walls and the heal doesn't hurt cities. It only makes it very slightly more likely that a melee unit survives a scrap, and melee units of ancient/classical are very bad against walled cities, usually losing half of their HP to even scratch them. Like, even if AI ignores getting Walls up initially, just declaring war on an AI makes them smartly build them ASAP in their closest cities. So how does Authority help you conquer cities despite not having a single thing that does anything about cities aside from the policy that gives only a 10% CS, which - while cool and can't be gotten otherwise - gives you way less than any single promotion does?
And by the time I have accumulated enough Catapults to take on walled, garrisoned cities, I often have accumulated enough Culture to either finish Authority or at least be close to doing so, and this is the point at which - you've said it yourself before - Authority loses power and is pretty much meant to be worse at everything than Progress and Tradition because you've conquered cities which you didn't conquer, because you don't have catapults. Sure, you might take those new, bad cities of Tradition players that have nothing in them, but you would've killed them with Progress and Tradition either way.
You've said before that Authority is meant to be bad yield wise because it helps you take cities - +1 city to you, -1 to enemies. How does Authority mean you get more cities than others? Explain it because I just don't see it.

So to sum up - to play Authority well, you must conquer enough cities with your tools* ASAP, because by the time you finish it, it's already worse than the others because it's designed to be so. As enemy building AI has gotten smart and good, civs love getting walls fast on their border cities so you need Catapults because otherwise you can't conquer cities**. By the time you get enough Catapults to conquer cities***, Authority is likely to be almost finished, which means it's already getting worse than the other trees because it's designed to be so.

*10 heal on units that don't attack walled cities and a 10% CS on the last policy which is gotten when Authority is meant to be inferior (because you've conquered enough cities to make a change and help you ball out of control?)
**sure, Archers sort of CAN do it, but by the time they lower the HP of the city down to even half points, you will probably have mathematics anyway. And yeah, you can conquer those newly built, bad cities without walls, but it's not like you couldn't do it with any other tree?
***one is not enough. To conquer a hilled, walled CS last Nappy game I've HAD to get, I needed 3 Catapults (with 4th coming in to replace 3rd once it got badly damaged), 2-3 Dromons and 2 archers because it was shooting my catapults too fast otherwise - and it still took several long turns!

 

[ashendashin]

I've said it times and times again while you've never explained when I asked you - I just don't get it. How does a miniscule 10% heal on melee kill make walled capitals fall down before Authority players? You always imply how "easy" Authority makes conquering cities, but did you try that in the last few versions? The AI is insane about Walls and the heal doesn't hurt cities. It only makes it very slightly more likely that a melee unit survives a scrap, and melee units of ancient/classical are very bad against walled cities, usually losing half of their HP to even scratch them. Like, even if AI ignores getting Walls up initially, just declaring war on an AI makes them smartly build them ASAP in their closest cities. So how does Authority help you conquer cities despite not having a single thing that does anything about cities aside from the policy that gives only a 10% CS, which - while cool and can't be gotten otherwise - gives you way less than any single promotion does?
And by the time I have accumulated enough Catapults to take on walled, garrisoned cities, I often have accumulated enough Culture to either finish Authority or at least be close to doing so, and this is the point at which - you've said it yourself before - Authority loses power and is pretty much meant to be worse at everything than Progress and Tradition because you've conquered cities which you didn't conquer, because you don't have catapults. Sure, you might take those new, bad cities of Tradition players that have nothing in them, but you would've killed them with Progress and Tradition either way.
You've said before that Authority is meant to be bad yield wise because it helps you take cities - +1 city to you, -1 to enemies. How does Authority mean you get more cities than others? Explain it because I just don't see it.

So to sum up - to play Authority well, you must conquer enough cities with your tools* ASAP, because by the time you finish it, it's already worse than the others because it's designed to be so. As enemy building AI has gotten smart and good, civs love getting walls fast on their border cities so you need Catapults because otherwise you can't conquer cities**. By the time you get enough Catapults to conquer cities***, Authority is likely to be almost finished, which means it's already getting worse than the other trees because it's designed to be so.

*10 heal on units that don't attack walled cities and a 10% CS on the last policy which is gotten when Authority is meant to be inferior (because you've conquered enough cities to make a change and help you ball out of control?)
**sure, Archers sort of CAN do it, but by the time they lower the HP of the city down to even half points, you will probably have mathematics anyway. And yeah, you can conquer those newly built, bad cities without walls, but it's not like you couldn't do it with any other tree?
***one is not enough. To conquer a hilled, walled CS last Nappy game I've HAD to get, I needed 3 Catapults (with 4th coming in to replace 3rd once it got badly damaged), 2-3 Dromons and 2 archers because it was shooting my catapults too fast otherwise - and it still took several long turns!

I really don't understand how you're having so much trouble with this. I've played many Authority games on emperor and recently moved up to immortal with no problems. Wanna know what makes it so great for taking cities early on? Easy kills and the pillaging that follows. On multiple occasions I've attacked walled cities with orders and had no trouble doing so with just 3-4 catapults and some well placed melee units. It can drag on before catapults, but it's very much possible to gain a few cities if you play it right. And honestly? I like the length of a siege in the early game. They just keep popping units for me to get free boosts from and allows me to get those much needed catapults all the faster. A buff to Authority is entirely unnecessary and specifically one for city taking would be counter-intuitive.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I really don't understand how you're having so much trouble with this. I've played many Authority games on emperor and recently moved up to immortal with no problems. Wanna know what makes it so great for taking cities early on? Easy kills and the pillaging that follows. On multiple occasions I've attacked walled cities with orders and had no trouble doing so with just 3-4 catapults and some well placed melee units. It can drag on before catapults, but it's very much possible to gain a few cities if you play it right. And honestly? I like the length of a siege in the early game. They just keep popping units for me to get free boosts from and allows me to get those much needed catapults all the faster. A buff to Authority is entirely unnecessary and specifically one for city taking would be counter-intuitive.

Easy kills? What provides those easy kills then? The heal won't help you kill a superior unit - yours will still lose. It merely rewards killing one with a tiny amount of HP. And the 10% CS on the last policy gives you less bang than one promotion (it's half of Shock, for instance) while IIRC not even affecting ranged cs (or it doesn't show on combat panel at least) - so your mentioned catapults are not stronger even one bit, because they only receive a tiny buff to their already tiny CS which still means they die very fast.
Pillaging can be done with Tradition and Progress too.

I don't know why people act as if not taking Authority instantly made you unable to fight wars or do the same actions Authority player has access to. Progress/Authority Catapults are identical, for instance. Sure, if my calculations are right Authority catapult has 4.4 CS instead of 4, but I don't think I even need to elaborate on why such a difference changes nothing - the value is so small, it still results in one-hit-kill from horses and swords anyway and you still need to evacuate the catapult after 3-4 hits from the city (the 1 CS nerf from last patch really shows).

 

[ElliotS]

Easy kills? What provides those easy kills then? The heal won't help you kill a superior unit - yours will still lose. It merely rewards killing one with a tiny amount of HP. And the 10% CS on the last policy gives you less bang than one promotion (it's half of Shock, for instance) while IIRC not even affecting ranged cs (or it doesn't show on combat panel at least) - so your mentioned catapults are not stronger even one bit, because they only receive a tiny buff to their already tiny CS which still means they die very fast.
Pillaging can be done with Tradition and Progress too.

I don't know why people act as if not taking Authority instantly made you unable to fight wars or do the same actions Authority player has access to. Progress/Authority Catapults are identical, for instance. Sure, if my calculations are right Authority catapult has 4.4 CS instead of 4, but I don't think I even need to elaborate on why such a difference changes nothing - the value is so small, it still results in one-hit-kill from horses and swords anyway and you still need to evacuate the catapult after 3-4 hits from the city (the 1 CS nerf from last patch really shows).

Yeah. The point is that if you take progress and play like you would with authority you're generally as good if not better off.

Authority actually doesn't help you take cities or fight in the fields other than a tiny bit on it's last policy. There's no difference between an authority swordsman and a progress swordsman, except the progress swordsman's civ isn't FORCED to go to war to succeed.

The only thing I really miss when I go progress over authority for warmonger gameplay is the garrisons. That 1 happiness per city is pretty huge. It doesn't make up for the weakness of the rest of the tree though.

You guys keep advocating the benefits of a warmongering gameplay, which Enrico and I already agree with.

Our point is that the Authority tree isn't better than the Progress tree, despite it having more risks involved. (Because you can just be peaceful with Progress, but not with Authority.)

It has no tangible effect on combat over the other trees, while being worse at developing than the other trees. Like, you need to kill 1-2 units every turn to make up for the culture and science you miss out on from the other trees. Even if you're successful, you're just breaking even. Meanwhile with the other trees if you're killing a unit or two a turn you're still getting that much science, but you won't stop getting the science if you agree to a favorable peace treaty.

The boost to supply cap is a good start and I think takes you 50% of the way to where you need to go. I think that making garrisons maintenance-free and giving +1 supply cap per city to the finisher would be the best to make the branch scale a bit better, or the Ballista idea would be much better for the early game.

I think the mistake you might be making is doing well with authority and attributing it to authority, rather than the aggressive play-style. Realize that you likely could have done just as well if not better with progress.

 

[ashendashin]

I'll be more specific then. 10hp on kills and 10% attack strength added onto any promotions you have makes for a much needed edge, however small, over those that have the same or even worse units. Authority encourages fighting barbs and gives much needed production in the early game, allowing you to support a large military that isn't quite as feasible on other branches, unless you have a lucky start. The boosts are prominent in the very early game, so as long as you take advantage of them and pick your first target wisely, you should have a strong foundation to support your military and switch out dying units.

I shouldn't have focused so much on the small combat boosts the first time. I personally find them very useful, but the real kicker is the yield boosts. ElliotS seems to think that Authority is a very risky tree while I think it's the very opposite. It's the only tree that's sure to give you a solid foundation to build on. Culture and science are not dependent on having a strong capital or a strong infrastructure with many cities. It gives you the production that's needed to field an army and is dependent on your military efficiency, without requiring a lucky start. Neither terrain nor resources are needed to take advantage of what Authority offers. While Tradition leaves you to hoping that your capital is in tip top shape and progress leaves you screwed out of decent production until the classical era or you find yourself with abundant resources. Yes, you pretty much have to be constantly killing units, but it's the only tree that allows you to do that efficiently at the start of the game and pretty much what it's all about. I have had many games where I would've been sure to fall behind the AI if the production and culture from Authority didn't save me at the beginning, due to useless terrain and resources.

EDIT:
I should add that I do not agree with the CS nerf of early siege units at all. I've yet to try the newest version, so my opinion on sieges could change a bit.

 

[ElliotS]

I'll be more specific then. 10hp on kills and 10% attack strength added onto any promotions you have makes for a much needed edge, however small, over those that have the same or even worse units. Authority encourages fighting barbs and gives much needed production in the early game, allowing you to support a large military that isn't quite as feasible on other branches, unless you have a lucky start. The boosts are prominent in the very early game, so as long as you take advantage of them and pick your first target wisely, you should have a strong foundation to support your military and switch out dying units.

I shouldn't have focused so much on the small combat boosts the first time. I personally find them very useful, but the real kicker is the yield boosts. ElliotS seems to think that Authority is a very risky tree while I think it's the very opposite. It's the only tree that's sure to give you a solid foundation to build on. Culture and science are not dependent on having a strong capital or a strong infrastructure with many cities. It gives you the production that's needed to field an army and is dependent on your military efficiency, without requiring a lucky start. Neither terrain nor resources are needed to take advantage of what Authority offers. While Tradition leaves you to hoping that your capital is in tip top shape and progress leaves you screwed out of decent production until the classical era or you find yourself with abundant resources. Yes, you pretty much have to be constantly killing units, but it's the only tree that allows you to do that efficiently at the start of the game and pretty much what it's all about. I have had many games where I would've been sure to fall behind the AI if the production and culture from Authority didn't save me at the beginning, due to useless terrain and resources.

EDIT:
I should add that I do not agree with the CS nerf of early siege units at all. I've yet to try the newest version, so my opinion on sieges could change a bit.

Except that the production has been nerfed, so it's only 3 higher than progress at max policies, and 1 higher at 3 policies. Then progress immediately overtakes authority when making buildings because of the additional 20% production.

Here's how I see it:
Progress pros: more gold, science, food, production on buildings, +1 movement on civvies and the better faith purchase late game.
Authority pros: +3 production per city, +10% CS, +10 HP healed on melee kills, larger supply cap, fairly useless units to purchase and a situational happiness boost.

The problems really start coming when you realize that the supply cap is increased by about 1 per 8 pop, but since your pop grows slower it at best might balance out vs progress.

Additionally the +3 production per city actually only amounts to around +1 for the time that it really matters, because you generally get the +2G +2P policy 2nd as progress (or at least I do) and it's even until a 3rd, and only really meaningful after a 4th or 5th.

The +10% CS comes very late, because unless you're making Imperium god awful by taking it last, you're getting Honor as a 5th policy and therefore after the time where it really matters.

The +10HP healed on melee kills feels very irrelevant to me that it's crazy considering for most of the time that matters it's the only combat bonus you're getting. That nerf hit it really hard.

The happiness is great later or mid game, and can make peace a bit less terrible, but suffers from the fact that you generally don't have troops to just leave in towns. (Even the free units you get from Honor tend to be send to the front lines, where they can earn their upkeep and supply cap usage.)

 

[matlajs]

I personaly think, that buff to military cap is good one. I am currently playing with Greece and bcoz of hoplite rush i have already swept, huh Persia(that was interesting one) and Bismarck. Despite of new cities im constantly in mil. cap overlap, bcoz each city need garrison and initially also worker to repair-connect- rebuild- improve( and bcoz authority workers without pyramids are awfull, i need lots of them). Im still playing 10/24 so i do not enjoy that buff. However i have to say, that even i like longer city fights, i absolutely dont agree with siege units nerf, specially those early ones. Attempts of conquering any hill-walled city even with 4 cats was already nightmare before, but i guess we will have to get used to it. What i think it may need buff, is the last left policy(settler one), bcoz those yield scaling is terrible. I think it deserve more progrresive scaling, something per city. It would also help to those helpless warmonger natures like Shaka, Askia etc, who simply fall behind in everything bcoz of their isolationism