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AVATAR Mod Development (Main Thread)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Psychic_Llamas, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    Western Australia

    Caution if you havent seen the movie yet this may contain spoilers!

    (though most spoilers have been replaced by links)


    This thread is one of 5 other similar threads, the purpose of which is to see what the public thinks of such a mod and to collect as much input as possible. the other threads simply redirect them to this thread. the links are below:


    External Links:


    Units and Promotions
    Spoiler :

    • All Na'Vi units will start with the racial promotion 'Native' which will grant +20% strength in jungle, Rainforest and Forest of Eywa feature types.
    • All Na'Vi Air units (Ikran and Toruk) will get an additional +20% combat strength in the Floating Mountain feature type.
    • All Na'Vi units gain an automatic +30% strength when adjacent to a Tree of Wishes (either Unique feature or Building)
    • Some RDA units and human units will get greater City defense (maybe attack?) as well as +20% bedrock strength.
    • RDA Units:
      • Melee and Ranged units (AVATARs, Secops and Marines) should be weaker but be able to purchase 5 'Heavy Support' Promotions (with Unobtainium in cities) as they advance in techs each granting a 10% strength bonus.
      • Light Air (Samson and Scorpions) have higher defence (not sure if this is avaliable in Dunewars. if not i might need to add it in from FFH) if higher defence is not possible make do with greater firepower overall (+15% strength), but be slower than the Ikran counterparts.
      • Heavy Air (Dragon guunships) should have greater firepower and bombarding capabilities
    • Na'Vi Units:
      • Melee and Ranged units (Warriors, Bowmen etc) should be 20% cheaper than the RDA counterparts AS WELL AS have +20% grassland and Lush terrain strength.
      • Light Air units (Ikran) are cheap and fast, but have superior evasion and first strike (and probably interception!)
      • Heavy Air (Toruk) should be similarly fast and evasive but have more strength than first strikes.
    [/SPOILER]
     
  2. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    6,366
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    Civilizations:
    Spoiler :

    For the time being i have only detailed the 2 main civs i had in mind, the Resource Development Administration (RDA), and the Omaticaya Na'vi Clan. I would like to also include the other 2 Na'Vi clans mentioned in the movie (Western Plains and Eastern Ocean clans if i recall correctly.) It could also be possible to include the Biologists of the RDA as a separate 'civilization', lead by Grace Augustine as they play a prominent part in the movie and are a sort of 'in between' of the Na'Vi and RDA.

    That design would give me 5 civs which i think is more than enough for a project of this scale:
    • RDA
    • Omaticaya Clan (Na'Vi)
    • Tipani Clan (Na'Vi)
    • Hadamaya Clan (Na'Vi)
    • The Rebel Alliance
    Resource Development Administration (RDA)
    Spoiler :


    Interplanetery Commerce Administration (ICA)
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
      Spoiler :

      • ???
      • ???
      • ???
      • ???
    • Capital city: Earthlink?
    • Units:
      • ??? (Basic Recon UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Recon UU)
      • ??? (Basic Melee UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Melee UU)
      • ??? (Basic Ranged UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • ??? (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • ??? (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • ??? (Basic Light Air UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • ??? (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • ??? (Skirmisher UU)

    Omaticaya Clan
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
    • Capital city: Hometree (Kelutrel)
    • Units:
      • Na'Vi Scout: (Basic Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Hunter: (Advanced Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Warriors: (Basic Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Elite: (Advanced Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Bowmen: (Basic Ranged UU)
      • Na'Vi Sharpshooters: (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • Pa'Li Riders: (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • Palulukan Rider: (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • Sturmbeest Rider: (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • Angtisk Rider (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • Ikran Skyrider: (Basic Light Air UU)
      • Ikran Stalkers: (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • Toruk Windstalker: (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • Toruk Shadowcaster: (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • Nantang Pack: (Skirmisher UU)

    Tipani Clan
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
    • Capital city: Toruka Nar'ing
    • Units:
      • Na'Vi Scout: (Basic Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Hunter: (Advanced Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Warriors: (Basic Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Elite: (Advanced Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Bowmen: (Basic Ranged UU)
      • Na'Vi Sharpshooters: (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • Pa'Li Riders: (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • Palulukan Rider: (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • Sturmbeest Rider: (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • Angtisk Rider (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • Ikran Skyrider: (Basic Light Air UU)
      • Ikran Stalkers: (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • Toruk Windstalker: (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • Toruk Shadowcaster: (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • Nantang Pack: (Skirmisher UU)

    Hadamaya Clan
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
      • ???
      • ???
      • ???
    • Capital city: ??????
    • Units:
      • Na'Vi Scout: (Basic Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Hunter: (Advanced Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Warriors: (Basic Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Elite: (Advanced Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Bowmen: (Basic Ranged UU)
      • Na'Vi Sharpshooters: (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • Pa'Li Riders: (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • Palulukan Rider: (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • Sturmbeest Rider: (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • Angtisk Rider (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • Ikran Skyrider: (Basic Light Air UU)
      • Ikran Stalkers: (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • Toruk Windstalker: (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • Toruk Shadowcaster: (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • Nantang Pack: (Skirmisher UU)

    The Rebel Alliance
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
    • Capital city: Montes Volans (aka Hallelujah Mountains) (I think their Capital would be in the Floating Mountains of Pandora as that is where they hid the AVATAR container after they fled Hells Gate.)
    • Units:
      • AVATAR Scout: (Basic Recon UU)
      • AVATAR Researchers: (Advanced Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Warriors: (Basic Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Elite: (Advanced Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Bowmen: (Basic Ranged UU)
      • Na'Vi Machine Gunmen: (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • Pa'Li"]Pa'Li[/URL] Riders: (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Swan: (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • ??? (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • ??? (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • Ikran Skyrider: (Basic Light Air UU)
      • Ikran Stalkers: (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • Na'Vi Samson (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • Na'Vi Scorpion Gunship"]Scorpion[/URL]: (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • Nantang Pack: (Skirmisher UU)

    Unknown Na'vi Tribe 1
    Spoiler :

    • Leaders:
      • ???
      • ???
      • ???
    • Capital city: ??????
    • Units:
      • Na'Vi Scout: (Basic Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Hunter: (Advanced Recon UU)
      • Na'Vi Warriors: (Basic Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Elite: (Advanced Melee UU)
      • Na'Vi Bowmen: (Basic Ranged UU)
      • Na'Vi Sharpshooters: (Advanced Ranged UU)
      • Pa'Li Riders: (Basic Fast Melee UU)
      • Palulukan Rider: (Advanced Fast Melee UU)
      • Sturmbeest Rider: (Basic Heavy Support UU)
      • Angtisk Rider (Advanced Heavy Support UU)
      • Ikran Skyrider: (Basic Light Air UU)
      • Ikran Stalkers: (Advanced Light Air UU)
      • Toruk Windstalker: (Basic Heavy Air UU)
      • Toruk Shadowcaster: (Advanced Heavy Air UU)
      • Nantang Pack: (Skirmisher UU)

     
  3. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    Tile Yields, Resources, Terrain, Features and Improvements
    Spoiler :

    Tile Yields:

    (The first column lists the various tile yields. the second column shows what settlements can manufacture from each tile yield, and the third column shows secondary manufactured goods from primary manufactured goods.
    Resources:
    Spoiler :

    • Unobtanium
      • 3 Unobtanium
    • Metalic Ore
      • 2 Ore
    • Arachnoid (Kali’weya)
      • 2 Biochemicals
    • Glow Worms (Elungawng)
      • 2 Biochemicals
    • Hexapede (Yerik)
      • 2 Xenoanimals, 2 Food
    • Sturmbeest (Talioang)
      • 2 Xenoanimals, 2 Food
    • Prolemuris
      • 2 Food
    • Teylu
      • 3 Food
    • Dinicthoid
      • 2 Food
    • Direhorse (Pa’Li)
      • 1 Pa’Li
    • Banshee (Ikran)
      • 1 Ikran
    • Baja tickler (Txumtsä’ll)
      • 2 Bioremedial Flora
    • Puffball Tree (Rumut)
      • 2 Bioremedial Flora
    • Octoshrooms (Torukspxam)
      • 3 Biochemicals
    • Dapophet (Paywll)
      • 2 Biochemicals
    • Scorpion thistle (Txumpaywll)
      • 2 Biochemicals
    • Dandetiger
      • 2 Xenoplants
    • Razor palm (Pxiut)
      • 2 Xenoplants
    • Beanstalk palm (Tautral)
      • 2 Xenoplants, Wood
    • Anemonid (Fngapsutxwll)
      • 2 Bioremedial Flora
    • Unidelta Tree (Tsawlapxangrr)
      • 1 Biochemicals, 3 Wood
    • Warbonnet (Eyaye)
      • 2 Decorative plants
    • Helicoradium (Loreyu)
      • 3 Decorative plants
    • Banshee of Paradise (Awaiei)
      • 2 Biochemicals, 1 Food
    • Push Fruit (Utu mauti)
      • 3 Food
    • Flour-seed Plant (Tsyorina'wll)
      • 3 Food
    • Episoth (Pxorna’)
      • 2 Xenoplants, 2 Food


    Terrain:
    Spoiler :
    • lowlands ()
    • Hills ()
    • Peak ()
    • Tundra (2 Ore)
    • Desert (2 Ore)
    • Marsh (2 food, 3 Biochemicals)
    • Bedrock (3 ore, 3 Unobtanium)
    • Plains (2 food, 3 Xenoanimals)
    • Grassland (3 Food, 3 Xenoplants)
    • Lush (3 Food, 3 Decorative Flora, 3 Bioremedial Flora)
    • Coast (1 Food)
    • Ocean (none)

    Features:
    Spoiler :
    • Forest (+2 Wood, +2 Xenoanimals, -1 food, -1 Biochemicals, -1 Xenoplants)
    • Jungle (+4 Wood, +3 Xenoplants, -1 food, -2 Biochemicals, -2 Xenoanimals)
    • Rainforest (+6 Wood, +3 Xenoplants, -2 food, -2 Biochemicals, -2 Decorative Flora, -2 Bioremedial Flora)
    • Forest of Eywa (+6 Wood, +4 Tsahaylu, -4 Unobtanium, -2 Xenoanimals)
    • Floating Mountains (+6 Unobtanium, +4 Ore, -2 food, -2 Xenoanimals, -2 Biochemicals, -2 Decorative Flora, -2 Bioremedial Flora)

    Improvements:
    Spoiler :
    RDA/Human improvements
    Spoiler :
    • Roads (RDA and humans only)
    • Mines (RDA and humans only) has a chance every turn to degrade the base terrain to bedrock terrain. (Lush->grassland->Plains -> bedrock)
      • Surface Mine. upgrades to Deep Mine with a certain tech and after being worked for x turns.
        • (+1 Ore)
      • Deep Mine. upgrades to Core Mine with another tech and after being worked for y turns
        • (+1 Ore, +1 Unobtanium)
      • Core Mine.
        • (+2 Ore, +2 Unobtanium)
    • Research Facility (RDA and humans only)
      • (+1 Biochemicals, +1 Bioremedial Flora)
    • Hydroponics Farm (RDA and humans only)
      • (+1 food)
    • Abottoir (RDA and humans only)
      • (+1 Xenoanimals)
    • RDA Forester (RDA and humans only)
      • (+1 Xenoplants, +1 Wood)
    • Outpost (RDA and Humans only) Acts as fort
      • Upgrades increase tile defence and line of sight.

    Na'Vi Improvements
    Spoiler :
    • Na’Vi Forester (Na'Vi only)
      • (+2 Xenoplants, +1 Wood)
    • Ceremonial Gatherer (Na'Vi only)
      • (+1 Biochemicals, +2 Wood, +1 Decorative plants)
    • Hunting Grounds (Na'Vi only) Acts as Pasture. Forest Jungle Rainforest and meat food Resources only.
      • (+2 Xenoanimals, +1 Food)
    [/list]




    Native Wildlife
    Spoiler :

    Viperwolf - Nantang: Small six legged animals which resemble wolves, dogs or jackals. They travel and hunt in packs. Replace wolves in Civ4.

    Thanator - Palulukan: Huge six legged creatures which ressemble giant panthers, but are twice as ferocious. It is the greatest predator on land, and is feared by most of the land dwellers. Replace panthers in Civ4.


    Hammerhead Titanotere - Angtsìk: Giant armored species of reptile-like animals on Pandora. They are herbivorous, and not so aggressive, but they have great territorial instinct. Replace elephants in FFH2.

    Banshee - Ikran:The flying beasts the Na'vi use to ride. They are ferocious creatures and an important part of the Na'vi, as they are one of the test to become a true hunter. Probably should be a resource (like horses in Civ4) and that resource while without improvement should spawn wild ikranes which act like griffins in FFH2.

    Leonopteryx - Toruk: The greatest predator of the sky. Toruk is attacked by no one, and is an important part of the Na'vi legends. Probably "uberspawn" like drakes in RiFE.
     
  4. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    Founding Forefathers
    Spoiler :

    Founding Forefathers will be adapted to the 2 kinds of civlizations (Na'Vi and Human) and each group of civs will draw from a different pool of FF.

    Na'Vi will use Influential Eldars, whereas Humans will use Corporate Leaders

    Effects of the various IE and CL will differ and potential effects still need to be outlined.


    Liberty Bells and Revolutions
    Spoiler :

    Liberty bells will be adapted differently for each group of civs again, like the FF.

    Na'Vi will use Ceremonial Drums, and Humans will use Influence. each of these will act essentially the same as Liberty bells (in that they affect cultural borders), except that Revolutions will never occur when you have high enough Drums or Influence.


    The Europe Screen
    Spoiler :

    Once again both the Na'Vi and Humans will have different 'Europe' Screens.

    All Humans will have Earth as their 'Europe' with Earth Ambassadors acting as the various 'Kings of *blank*' in Colonization. They will send Valkyrie Shuttles to the edge of the map where they board the ISV Venture Star which will transit between Earth and Pandora with new units, much like the present Europe screen in Colonization. Differences will be in Units acquired, which will include new AMP suits, Samson gunships and Avatar Units, as well as the basic economic specialists.

    Na'Vi will have the Wilderness as their 'Europe'. Each Na'Vi clan will have a Wilderness Scout Leader which acts as the 'Kings of *blank*' in Colonization. instead of sending shuttles or ships to the edge of the map, Na'Vi will select special 'Wilderness Scout Groups' on land, outside of their cultural borders, which will travel through the wilderness in search of other lone Na'Vi willing to join your clan, as well as native animals such as Ikran, Hammerhead Titanotheres and Palulukan, as well as the basic economic specialists.


    Missionaries and Non-Na'Vi Natives
    Spoiler :

    I am considering adding various animal civilizations to the game which will act like the current 'Natives' in Colonization, in that Na'Vi Civilizations can position a Wilderness Scout in a 'city' (will replace with animal dens) to gain support like the missionaries. Units generated from these Animal Civilizations will be chosen from the Native Wildlife in the post above. these Animal 'civilizations' will be led by various Eywa Spirits. Building near Animal 'Dens' will not trigger the Animal civ to request gold from them as natives do in current Colonization, but the Animal civ will also never give dens to the Na'Vi if Drums are high enough.

    Compared to the Na'Vi Humans cannot commune with the Animal civilizations, these animal civilizations will act as barbarians in base Civ 4 (in that they are always hostile to non-Na'Vi civs.) If an Animal civilization is killed, events will begin occurring which will spawn new animal civilizations around the world to replace the lost ones.
    These Human Civs can instead use special 'Avatar' missionary units to enter friendly Na'Vi civilization and gain support from them in the same way that they do in present Colonization. Building cities near Animal Dens may lead to Animal Uprising events where a few aggressive animal units spawn near the offending city.

     
  5. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    ill take this one too...
     
  6. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    and maybe this one......
     
  7. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    Ok... last one.

    you can post now :)
     
  8. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Thank you. For sure I will.
     
  9. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i added another civ (Interplanetery Commerce Administration (ICA)) but havent finished the flag, and havent thought about units or leaders.

    The Interplanetery Commerce Administration (ICA)is a group that monitors interplanetery commerce, as the name suggests.

    The ICA is responsible for giving the RDA monopoly rights to all products shipped, derived, or developed from Pandora and any other off-Earth location given that they abide by a treaty that prohibits weapons of mass destruction and limits military power in space.

    the idea is that the IPA has come to Pandora to check that the RDA is behaving and not destroying everything like they promised.

    -------------

    i also added some more resources to the list.
     
  10. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Native wildlife
    Spoiler :
    Viperwolf - Nantang: Small six legged animals which resemble wolves, dogs or jackals. They travel and hunt in packs. Replace wolves in Civ4.

    Thanator - Palulukan: Huge six legged creatures which ressemble giant panthers, but are twice as ferocious. It is the greatest predator on land, and is feared by most of the land dwellers. Replace panthers in Civ4.


    Hammerhead Titanotere - Angtsìk: Giant armored species of reptile-like animals on Pandora. They are herbivorous, and not so aggressive, but they have great territorial instinct. Replace elephants in FFH2.

    Banshee - Ikrane:The flying beasts the Na'vi use to ride. They are ferocious creatures and an important part of the Na'vi, as they are one of the test to become a true hunter. Probably should be a resource (like horses in Civ4) and that resource while without improvement should spawn wild ikranes which act like griffins in FFH2.

    Leonopteryx - Toruk: The greatest predator of the sky. Toruk is attacked by no one, and is an important part of the Na'vi legends. Probably "uberspawn" like drakes in RiFE.
     
  11. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    thanks Deon :) added to the third post
     
  12. Midnight-Blue766

    Midnight-Blue766 The filidh that cam frae Skye

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    So will this mod use static leaderheads or animated leaderheads?
     
  13. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    static. i'm going to use screen shots from the movie and game. i dont think animated leaderheads will be able to capture the Na'Vi unless someone goes through the effort of making them from scratch.

    ill only use animated ones if they are very good and all match ;)
     
  14. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    I don't think it's very nice to spam links to your mod in everywhere else where it's only barely related. And I thought you were working on a warhammer mod. is that finished ?
     
  15. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    well it was related to dunewars as i was basing it off that code, initially but then Maniac suggested planetfall may be better (and thus a thread there is relevent). then David Allen suggested i make this thread in the main C&C forum and post a link in FFH to see if there is much public interest. then i put a link in warhammer forum because im associated with it.

    so i don't think its 'not nice'. if you arent interested dont click it. those threads are getting burried quickly anyway as no one posts in them.

    to answer your question, im not starting coding work on this for some time yet, it is just design ideas which take a long time. Warhammer is still, and will be till it is finished, my first priority.

    if you want to argue with me further id appreciate it if you simply PMed me :)
     
  16. Midnight-Blue766

    Midnight-Blue766 The filidh that cam frae Skye

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    I have another question (also related to aesthetics): will this mod use custom diplomacy music or the vanilla BtS ones?
     
  17. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    definatedly custom diplomacy music.

    ill probably use the music from the movie.
     
  18. MadmanOfALeader

    MadmanOfALeader Chieftain

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    Just saw the movie...

    I like the idea of a Neytiri LH... would be easy to turn into Anacaona of the Arawaks. Michelle Rodriguez would agree.
     
  19. Xaos

    Xaos Chieftain

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    Avatar was truly an awesome movie. Not quite sure there's really enough stuff there for a mod, but I wish you the best of luck. You are gonna have to take a lot of creative liberties and invent a bunch of stuff. Maybe when part 2 comes out in 2012 there will be a lot more to work with.

    Maybe you could concentrate on just a scenerio taking you through the events of the movie from the corporation POV and the Na'vi POV.

    OR...

    Maybe just concentrate on the Na'vi BEFORE the Humans came along. Might be very interesting.

    Good luck :) Can't wait to see what you come up with.
     
  20. phungus420

    phungus420 Chieftain

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    You should consider giving the humans some form of sympathetic motivation in the mod, instead of making them just evil greedy bastards. The movie is kind of cliched in that respect, and suffers from arch-typical white guilt. It's too bad too, if they would have just given the humans some sort of reason to be mining the planet rather then just for the moneys (say for instance a subtext where humanity is at war with an alien Skynet they encountered while exploring space, and need the resources on Pandora for the war effort which is being fought simply to avoid extinction) the movie would have been alot more interesting. All and all I get kinda bored of the ol' cliched evil, and find a story far more engaging when the villains have depth, rather then be the transparent bad guy archetypes of the villains in the film. If you do make a mod based on Pandora, I think it would make things far more interesting if you add a subtext which gives the human faction some sort of sympathetic motivation.
     

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