Bad News for Bush?

[Neomega]

Here ya go: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html and here are the UN resolutions about all the stuff:



Enjoy.

You see, I just robot scanned all those resolutions, and I'll be damned if none of them condemned Saddam for not sending out squads of teams to try and find his old rusty degraded shells, and destroy them.

Even more interesting, this is all UN resolutions. What I was actually talking about were those WMD programs the Bush administration said Saddam had, and was using to stockpile weapons with.


Now, do you know why I used the color red to highlight programs...

it's true.

I can't help it.


It's still Friday in Fiji... that means fish!

Yes, its a .... you guessed it.... it's a RED HERRING

So shiny, so pretty, not even relevant.

all 500 of them. RED HERRINGS

Can you believe it!!!

 

[MobBoss]

Even more interesting, this is all UN resolutions. What I was actually talking about were those WMD programs the Bush administration said Saddam had, and was using to stockpile weapons with.

Sigh. If you cant realize that the UN was searching for far more than just WMD programs, then we are pretty much done here. Head meet wall.

But I actually went and read the resolutions. It most certainly wasnt just about WMD "programs".

But you are too busy chanting "red herring" to recognize the fact. So by all means, continue with your hands over your ears and go "lalala" (or "red herring" as it were) while the rest of us engage in factual debate.

 

[Neomega]

Sigh. If you cant realize that the UN was searching for far more than just WMD programs,

Did I say that?

I am sorry you misunderstood what I said. I am sure most of the readers at this forum can comprehend what I said, so I will not be taking the time to try to explain it further.

But you are too busy chanting "red herring" to recognize the fact.

What fact? The fact you have a big red herring? I have been recognizing this fact well. In fact I have been heaping praise upon it's shiny qualities, how large and impressive it is, and especially how rose-tinted it is. Beautifully red, so distracting. Yes, that is a giant red herring you have there.

The fact that the whole 500 degraded shells is BIG RED and SO SHINY.


A BIG RED HERRING

Bush said WMD programs... Bush said stockpiling LOOK A BIG RED HERRING!!!!

Scattered acroos the Iraq.... is that stockpiling?
wait.... look its a big red herring!!!

so shiny

Shells from pre Gulf War one... is that a program?... wait.... whats that? Look! Look at Santorum's GIANT RED HERRING!!!!



It's so big, AND RED!!!

I am hypnotized by this red herring being dangled in my face... please, fill me with more information, half truths, and lawyer double speak!

 

[MobBoss]

What fact? The fact you have a big red herring? I have been recognizing this fact well. In fact I have been heaping praise upon it's shiny qualities, how large and impressive it is, and especially how rose-tinted it is. Beautifully red, so distracting. Yes, that is a giant red herring you have there.

The fact that the whole 500 degraded shells is BIG RED and SO SHINY.


A BIG RED HERRING

Bush said WMD programs... Bush said stockpiling LOOK A BIG RED HERRING!!!!

Scattered acroos the Iraq.... is that stockpiling?
wait.... look its a big red herring!!!

so shiny

Shells from pre Gulf War one... is that a program?... wait.... whats that? Look! Look at Santorum's GIANT RED HERRING!!!!



It's so big, AND RED!!!

I am hypnotized by this red herring being dangled in my face... please, fill me with more information, half truths, and lawyer double speak!

Dude...you have lost it.

 

[McManus]

And yet, he is right. Where are the many hundred liters of anthrax, the "nuculear" weapons programs, anything? Don't give me the line of "they were shipped away into countries hostile to Iraq" because if that were the truth, and Saddam so good at hiding it all, why would he let these be found? Could it be that the Iraqis didn't even know, or care about them?

They are old, useless. Claiming that punishing Saddam in retrospect for breaking UN resolutions 10 years ago is just so full of it. Maybe you should have done something 10 years ago then. So. Still waiting for those WMD programs.

 

[CaptainF]

Bad news for the army.

 

[MobBoss]

And yet, he is right.

No, he isnt. Reply in a debate with "red herring" ad naseum does not make one "right".

Where are the many hundred liters of anthrax, the "nuculear" weapons programs, anything? Don't give me the line of "they were shipped away into countries hostile to Iraq" because if that were the truth, and Saddam so good at hiding it all, why would he let these be found? Could it be that the Iraqis didn't even know, or care about them?

Such programs were not the only basis for the war, but simply one part of many reasons.

They are old, useless. Claiming that punishing Saddam in retrospect for breaking UN resolutions 10 years ago is just so full of it. Maybe you should have done something 10 years ago then. So. Still waiting for those WMD programs.

I actually agree with you. Maybe the UN should have got off its collective ass 10 years ago and done something...but they didnt. They were powerless to act on their own resolutions. So by all means, go ahead and wait on the programs - we might not ever find them. But we did find WMD that was in direct violation of all the UN resolutions against Iraq. Thats the truth.

 

[Neomega]

No, he isnt. Reply in a debate with "red herring" ad naseum does not make one "right".

It does, if what you are doing, is making something appear to be something it isn't. Trying to distract from the issue.... if you are making a

what

what are those 500 shells?


That's right!!!! They are a red herring!!! A distraction!! Nobody in the administration, or the defense department has even tried to claim we have found any WMDs!!!

AND

you never found an expert to say that these indeed were the WMD's in question.

And you won't.

AND, in case you forgot, Rick Santorum is not an expert.


So until you can prove that these 500 rusty shells were actually the WMD programs we were told we we were going to war for, its a......



.....


RED HERRING

Such programs were not the only basis for the war, but simply one part of many reasons.

No, old chemical shells scattered about Iraq were never the reason.

Trying to say these are the weapons were are looking for is like trying to say the shoe on the end of your hook is what you were fishing for.

the closest thing you got to a fish was a.....

But we did find WMD that was in direct violation of all the UN resolutions against Iraq. Thats the truth.

I am sorry, but the correct way to spell "red herring" is not t-r-u-t-h, it is actually R-E-D H-E-R-R-I-N-G

Don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but the word you presented at the end of your sentence could cause confusion about the color and type of fish you are trying to distract us with.

 

[FriendlyFire]

But you are too busy chanting "red herring" to recognize the fact. So by all means, continue with your hands over your ears and go "lalala" (or "red herring" as it were) while the rest of us engage in factual debate.

"The weapons did not exist, we've got to deal with that. Anyone out there holding - as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said - the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, are really delusional," - Former US weapons inspector David Kay

" the current OSD (Office of the Secretary of Defense) refused to listen or adhere to military advice."

"It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons. It's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there." - Lt. Gen. James Conway, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force

 

[Left]

....And, he's being charged. What's your point?

Three years after he was arrested. I thought you had to be charged with a crime before you were arrested?

 

[Bronx Warlord]

the current OSD (Office of the Secretary of Defense) refused to listen or adhere to military advice.

No **** on that one, boy I would love five minutes alone with Rummy

 

[MobBoss]

what are those 500 shells?

WMD. No ifs, ands, or buts.

So until you can prove that these 500 rusty shells were actually the WMD programs we were told we we were going to war for, its a......

Once again, the inspectors were looking for more than just programs. To deny that is to deny historical fact.

No, old chemical shells scattered about Iraq were never the reason.

Sure they were. Saddam was called to destroy these just as much as anyting else and he most certainly lied about them.

Trying to say these are the weapons were are looking for is like trying to say the shoe on the end of your hook is what you were fishing for.

I would say its akin to catching a Trout when you were Bass fishing. Not quite what you were going for, but still a keeper.

the closest thing you got to a fish was a.....

Rofl, the only thing that smells like fish around here is your arguement.

 

[nihilistic]

Such programs were not the only basis for the war, but simply one part of many reasons.

It was indeed only one of the reasons, but not all reasons are equal. Judging by the air time given to it by Bush administration officials before the war, the allegations that Saddam has rebooted his WMD programs and presents an immenent threat to the United States and its allies makes up perhaps over 90% of the justification of the war as sold to the congress and the populace of the United States, as well as to the world. The world at large didn't buy it, but a decidingly fatal amount of Americans who wanted to believe in their commander in chief did.

 

[MobBoss]

It was indeed only one of the reasons, but not all reasons are equal. Judging by the air time given to it by Bush administration officials before the war, the allegations that Saddam has rebooted his WMD programs and presents an immenent threat to the United States and its allies makes up perhaps over 90% of the justification of the war as sold to the congress and the populace of the United States, as well as to the world. The world at large didn't buy it, but a decidingly fatal amount of Americans who wanted to believe in their commander in chief did.

Actually, with the exception of France, Germany and probably China, the world at large most certainly did think Iraq had WMD programs in place. It most certainly just wasnt the CIA that thought so in any event. And the USA didnt "go it alone" but indeed did have the support of many nations.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Once again, the inspectors were looking for more than just programs. To deny that is to deny historical fact.

FACT:
"Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02


FACT:
"There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."
• President Bush, 10/7/02

FACT:
"Iraq is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue an aggressive nuclear weapons program. These are offensive weapons for the purpose of inflicting death on a massive scale, developed so that Saddam Hussein can hold the threat over the head of any one he chooses. What we must not do in the face of this mortal threat is to give in to wishful thinking or to willful blindness."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 8/29/02

FACT:
The U.S.-sponsored search for WMD had been budgeted for $400 million, with an additional $600 million added in 2004.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGAIN do you care to Rebutt these findings ?



"It is less toxic than most things that Americans have under their kitchen sink at this point" Former US weapons inspector David Kay

"we were all wrong and that is most disturbing." Former US weapons inspector David Kay

The chances of finding any WMD stockpiles in Iraq are "close to nil." Charles Duelfer. Former head of ISG

"It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons. It's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there." - Lt. Gen. James Conway, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force

"The weapons did not exist, we've got to deal with that. Anyone out there holding - as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said - the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, are really delusional," - Former US weapons inspector David Kay

Duelfer Report
On September 30, 2004, the ISG released the Duelfer Report, its final report on Iraq's WMD programs. The main points of the report are as follows:

Iraq had no deployable WMD of any kind as of March 2003 and had no production since 1991.

 

[McManus]

Actually, with the exception of France, Germany and probably China, the world at large most certainly did think Iraq had WMD programs in place. It most certainly just wasnt the CIA that thought so in any event. And the USA didnt "go it alone" but indeed did have the support of many nations.

Dude, you need to get off Fox news... There were like 4 or 5 (less than 10 anyways) countries which supported you, and the rest of us supported France and Germany in trying to rein you guys down from charging about on your own.

Most of the world was against the war, hence the UN not sanctioning your baseless assault of a sovereign nation.

 

[MobBoss]

Dude, you need to get off Fox news... There were like 4 or 5 (less than 10 anyways) countries which supported you, and the rest of us supported France and Germany in trying to rein you guys down from charging about on your own.

Incorrect. Only a handful sent troops, but there were over 60 countries that supported the war in Iraq and gave a big thumbs up to what the USA was doing.

Most of the world was against the war, hence the UN not sanctioning your baseless assault of a sovereign nation.

Most of the world? Please. So you call Saddam breaking pretty much ALL of the 17 UN resolutions over 14 years, violating the cease fire treaty by shooting at our aircraft baseless? Thats why the UN is a joke. Without the USA they cant force any nation to to a friggin thing. They are powerless.

 

[nonconformist]

Incorrect. Only a handful sent troops, but there were over 60 countries that supported the war in Iraq and gave a big thumbs up to what the USA was doing.

Props to Afghanistan for supporting us in Iraq

Most of the world? Please. So you call Saddam breaking pretty much ALL of the 17 UN resolutions over 14 years, violating the cease fire treaty by shooting at our aircraft baseless? Thats why the UN is a joke. Without the USA they cant force any nation to to a friggin thing. They are powerless.

No, because of the US the UN is powerless to do anything.

 

[.Shane.]

but there were over 60 countries that supported the war in Iraq and gave a big thumbs up to what the USA was doing.

Are you sure?

I thought the breakdown was more like:

10 countries gave a mild thumbs-up
15 gave a big thumbs up
22 gave a thumbs up so massive that the tips of the thumbs exploded with red, white, and blue ejaculant.
8 inserted their thumbs into their rectums, but the general direction was up, so we counted them.
5, though a translation error, thought we were asking them to rate the new Lordi video.

I don't recall where Poland fell in all this.

 

[MobBoss]

No, because of the US the UN is powerless to do anything.

Oh really. So if the USA pulled out of the UN, it would magically become the answer to all the worlds ills?

Name me a UN operation that didnt include the USA that was a success. It aint going to happen.