Bad scientists: you have given bad info on global warming

[SS-18 ICBM]

(Yes, ICBM, I read your bullcrap post. I know we already have a number of measuring stations--we need more. Many TIMES more.)

And you haven't demonstrably shown why we need more. Just like you haven't shown me why my doctor needs to have "Many TIMES more" needle pricks for my blood work. And you just keep insisting that there should be "more dammit, because I said so!" Doesn't seem like you have an argument anyway, as you're just resulting to name-calling now.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Differential equations - how do they work? We just don't know.

 

[BasketCase]

Some of us do care, however. Even those of us who, like me, have no children and won't be around personally to suffer the effects of global warming, may still give a crap about what happens to later generations.

There's no place for emotions in science. It biases the judgement.

The questions here, in this particular thread (feel free to make a "boo hoo" emo thread if you like) are: is global warming happening, and how bad will it be? The answers to those questions are, very simply, "yes", "no", or "I have no freaking idea". Your sobbing about the suffering of future generations does not change these answers.

Answers which you didn't provide, by the way. How much hotter will the Earth be in five years?

Not sure what you mean by "catastrophe". The Little Ice Age saw dynamic expansionism, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.

And it saw farms destroyed, reduced crop yields, a decline of Iceland's population by HALF, the complete disappearance of the Norse colonies of Greenland, paralyzed international trade (due to ships being stuck in frozen harbors), and a couple of surprising invasions by French and Swiss armies who marched across frozen rivers.

The Medieval Warm Period also caused drier conditions in parts of the Americas and Africa. That sounds rather problematic for people living there.

And Europe experienced mild moist climate at the same time. Sounds very non-problematic for people living there.


By the way, thanks to your constant pestering, I've found even more evidence against you. And this stuff is good. Real good. I found this on Wikipedia:

A radiocarbon-dated box core in the Sargasso Sea shows that the sea surface temperature was approximately 1 °C (1.8 °F) cooler than today approximately 400 years ago (the Little Ice Age) and 1700 years ago, and approximately 1 °C warmer than today 1000 years ago (the Medieval Warm Period).

A thousand years ago, the oceans were a full degree warmer than they are now. First off: it proves that today's ocean warming trend might not be the result of humans. And second: where was the rising ocean and massive flooding we were supposed to see?

 

[BasketCase]

And you haven't demonstrably shown why we need more.

I don't have to. Basic statistics already has. You can't measure the planet's CO2 levels by measuring in Los Angeles--too high. And you can't find it by measuring on top of Mauna Loa--too low. The problem is, you don't know where the "right" place to measure is, because you don't know what the average is. You have to find it first. And the only way to find it is to measure lots and lots of places.

How the hell do you think doctors figured out that a thermometer in the mouth (or at the other end! ) is a good approximation for your whole body? BY MEASURING THE ENTIRE FREAKING BODY.

Sheesh.

Just like you haven't shown me why my doctor needs to have "Many TIMES more" needle pricks for my blood work.

They check your temperature, and your heart rate, and your oxygen saturation, and they take blood samples, and they take X-rays, and they take throat cultures, and.....you get the idea. Lots of tests to cover the whole body. And if it's cancer they're trying to diagnose, they really do have to do lots of needle pricks to find out where the cancer is.

Edit: Thanks a heap, man. You made me get hasty and double-post.

Re-edit: SS-18 ICBM, prove to me (demonstrably) why we don't need any more measuring.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A thousand years ago, the oceans the Sargasso Sea were was a full degree warmer than they are it is now.

Fixed that for you.


By the way, from your wiki article:

Globally

A 2009 study by Michael Mann et al. finds that the MWP shows "warmth that matches or exceeds that of the past decade in some regions, but which falls well below recent levels globally".[21] Their reconstruction of MWP pattern is characterised by warmth over large part of North Atlantic, Southern Greenland, the Eurasian Arctic, and parts of North America which appears to substantially exceed that of the late 20th century (1961–1990) baseline and is comparable or exceeds that of the past one-to-two decades in some regions. Certain regions such as central Eurasia, northwestern North America, and (with less confidence) parts of South Atlantic, exhibit anomalous coolness.

You do realise this thread is about Global Warming, right? So well done ICBM, your pestering made Basket find more evidence against himself

 

[BasketCase]

AHA! Finally Ziggy gives up the real truth. Probably he knew the whole time but wasn't willing to say it.

I kept telling you guys--basic statistics. An ice core is a sample in one place. Yes, the problem is global warming, and to study something global, you need to measure global. And we're not.

Is there a surgeon in the house? Ziggy needs a foot extraction on his mouth.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

First, you do admit your BS about how the oceans during medieval time were 1 degree warming then they are now?

I'll address your cop-out after your admission

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It's like differential equations and fluid mechanics never happened.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Since I know from experience you never admit your mistakes, I'll be a lad and address this hilarious post right now.

AHA! Finally Ziggy gives up the real truth. Probably he knew the whole time but wasn't willing to say it.

I kept telling you guys--basic statistics. An ice core is a sample in one place. Yes, the problem is global warming, and to study something global, you need to measure global. And we're not.

Is there a surgeon in the house? Ziggy needs a foot extraction on his mouth.

First off, the comment which convinces me about your exquisite cluelessness about the subject of Global Warming...

"An ice core is a sample in one place."

Disregarding the confusion over a place and a measurement, ice core samples come from all over the globe wherever there is permanent ice. So an ice core sample can be a sample from many places. Greenland, the Arctic, Glaciers, Tops of mountains.

"And we're not"

We so are. There are thousands of em all over the place on land. They're thousands on ships which move all over the ocean, bouyies (however the ef you spell that) and form satelites since 1967.

 

[BasketCase]

Since I know from experience you never admit your mistakes

Oh, no. I always admit my mistakes. Whenever I make one.

Disregarding the confusion over a place and a measurement, ice core samples come from all over the globe wherever there is permanent ice. So an ice core sample can be a sample from many places. Greenland, the Arctic, Glaciers, Tops of mountains.

Don't mince words with me. An ice core is a column of ice drilled out of one place. Of course we can take lots of ice cores. And in places where there's no ice, we can take sediment cores.

Prove that we're taking cores in enough places.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh, no. I always admit my mistakes. Whenever I make one.

Well ... go ahead then.

You won't will you?

Prove that we're taking cores in enough places.

You think it's clever to make baseless claims and then demand others to prove you wrong?

Ever heard of this thing called Science? You should look into it. It's fascinating

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I never make mistakes. I AM the ultimate God. God is second to me. Don't look back - I see you trembling. Don't even look upon me with your naked eyes.

EDIT: Better not link "the Shah sleeps in Lee Harvey's grave" here.

 

[BasketCase]

Oh, I will. I'll admit my mistake. When I make one. Don't hold your breath.

I've been arguing politics in Internet forums since 9600 baud was considered fast. I've had so much practice, I don't make mistakes on Internet forums any more. Except typos.

However, I did discover a mistake or two made by Albert Einstein. That's the caliber of person you're arguing against here. I'm way out of your division.

You think it's clever to make baseless claims and then demand others to prove you wrong?

No, it's not. It's actually rather stupid.

Demanding that all claims in science be tested and proven true or false, on the other hand, is just one of the basic rules of science. And you, Ziggy, are breaking that rule. Therefore, don't go sniping at me about how I should look up this thing called science. My grasp of it is much better than yours.

I have not proved that we're not measuring in enough places. You, on the other hand, have not proved that we are measuring in enough places, therefore we might not be. And you can't make a scientific claim (such as "humans are cooking the planet") without verifiably proving the sampling and the reasoning.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

However, I did discover a mistake or two made by Albert Einstein. That's the caliber of person you're arguing against here. I'm way out of your division.

Oh gee. I didn't realise.

Well, I'd better back off then and yield to such an intellect.

 

[uppi]

However, I did discover a mistake or two made by Albert Einstein. That's the caliber of person you're arguing against here. I'm way out of your division.

So you mastered high school-level physics. This is supposed to impress whom? But I guess there are two ways to interpret "way out of your division".

 

[BasketCase]

It's supposed to impress you specifically. I've discovered a mistake by Einstein (specifically when he was studying the structure of the universe) and you have not.

Though, if you read through his theories on the expanding, contracting, or static universe, you might figure it out too. What did he do wrong, and why?

 

[choxorn]

BasketCase, please read the last line of my signature and take that into account before you continue arguing, or I will consider your arguments even more ridiculous than I already do.

 

[BasketCase]

Ah, yes. Thank you for the reminder.

Global warming is a definite maybe, poisoned by politics and hijacked by dishonest activists desiring to force their agenda on the public. And if it is happening, its effects will be far more mild than the alarmists are claiming. Some of its results will actually be beneficial to Third World countries.

There. Convinced?

 

[choxorn]

And, the 2011 "Completely Missing the Point" award goes to BasketCase, for that wonderful post.

 

[BasketCase]

No, I got your point. I just ignored it.